Enjoy the community service!

dickwod1

So McAteer and Whelan sentenced to 240 hours community service,

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/mcateer-and-whelan-sentenced-to-240-hours-community-service-1.1883662

And the Judge says to them "Enjoy the community service" what I think he left out was "wink wink nudge nudge"

In other news 411 people jailed for having no tv licence,

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/411-people-jailed-last-year-for-not-paying-their-tv-licence-30235625.html

CrazyRabbit

2-tier justice system is in full swing.

wretcheddomain

dickwod1 wrote: »

what I think he left out was "wink wink judge judge"

FYP

Buzz Killington the third

dickwod1 wrote: »

And the Judge says to them "Enjoy the community service"

What he means is "Pints are on you, see you at 5 in the vaults"

kneemos

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

2-tier justice system is in full swing.

Excellent judicial system,that's why they didn't go to jail to appease public opinion.

Valetta

dickwod1 wrote: »

In other news 411 people jailed for having no tv licence,

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/411-people-jailed-last-year-for-not-paying-their-tv-licence-30235625.html

No-one was jailed for not paying their TV license.

They were jailed for not paying a court fine.

eviltwin

re the 411 licence non payments what is the point of sending someone to prison for a few hours??

dickwod1

Valetta wrote: »

No-one was jailed for not paying their TV license.

They were jailed for not paying a court fine.

They got fined because they didn't have a tv licence

Valetta

dickwod1 wrote: »

They got fined because they didn't have a tv licence

Correct. They went to jail because they didn't pay the fine, just as the two Anglo lads will if they fail to do their community service.

Same rules for everybody.

kneemos

dickwod1 wrote: »

They got fined because they didn't have a tv licence

That's the law?

Awkward Badger

Judge Martin Nolan said in April that he felt it would be unfair to imprison either man as he believed the Financial Regulator “led them into error and illegality”.

He said he believed that the Regulator had effectively given the “green light” to allow the illegal purchase of Anglo shares.

When is the trial of the regulator then ?

dickwod1

Valetta wrote: »

Same rules for everybody.

LOL

Larbre34

So we can expect the imminent arrest of the Financial Regulator board at the time?

Can we f***.

KungPao

dickwod1 wrote: »

So McAteer and Whelan sentenced to 240 hours community service,

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/mcateer-and-whelan-sentenced-to-240-hours-community-service-1.1883662

And the Judge says to them "Enjoy the community service" what I think he left out was "wink wink nudge nudge"

In other news 411 people jailed for having no tv licence,

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/411-people-jailed-last-year-for-not-paying-their-tv-licence-30235625.html

Honestly thought you were talking about Jason and Ronnie...

Had better get another coffee!

Valetta

dickwod1 wrote: »

LOL

Please explain how the rules are different in the two examples quoted?

dickwod1

Valetta wrote: »

Please explain how the rules are different in the two examples quoted?

No - it's called common sense, and if you don't have it I cant give it.

A Primal Nut

dickwod1 wrote: »

No - it's called common sense, and if you don't have it I cant give it.

Not paying a court is and should be a serious fine. What the fine was given for is irrelevant.

Valetta

dickwod1 wrote: »

No - it's called common sense, and if you don't have it I cant give it.

Ah.. so no explanation, then.

dickwod1

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Not paying a court is and should be a serious fine. What the fine was given for is irrelevant.

Maybe just maybe because of the banks collapsing and ruining our thriving economy and country and housing prices maybe these people could not afford to pay the fine? maybe? just a thought.

dickwod1

Valetta wrote: »

Ah.. so no explanation, then.

Same answer ... Maybe just maybe because of the banks collapsing and ruining our thriving economy and country and housing prices maybe these people could not afford to pay the fine? maybe? just a thought.

RoboRat

(a) Don't pay a €1,000 fine and get sent to prison.
(b) Be a part of the Bankruptcy of the country costing BILLIONS that will last for generations and get some community service.

Makes perfect sense.

Irony is that some of the people who fall into (a) have done so due to the actions of (b).

Utter utter lunacy, when will anybody actually be held accountable for what went on? These guys are not solely to blame but they had a big hand in one facet of it and should be punished accordingly.

SpaceTime

There's an inherent unfairness in all adversarial legal systems though. If you've got an expensive lawyer and all the best legal advice, you're going to get more resources poured into your defence.

Money buys good and well presented arguments and lots of research into potential ways out.

...

On the TV Licence thing, I think we need to stop using the prison service as a debt collection mechanism.

It's a bad idea, it's contrary to notions of human rights and we've been criticised for it by the UN.

Secondly, it's also extremely expensive. If you've outstanding fines or unpaid fees/taxes/licences there are other ways of collecting them and that's what most sensible legal systems do!

There's also an unfairness in the sense that a lot of minor things which can lead to jail sentences (i.e. stuff like non payment of TV licence) is often a summary conviction - i.e. tried before a judge with no jury and minimum opportunity for any kind of argument.

Tow

240 of free consulting service in how to improve the running of various government departments would be good value for the Irish Tax Payer.

But as this is Ireland, so those 240 will be squandered on sweeping leaves in a park...

Snake

They give out 10 illegal loans no prison

Someone doesn't pay their TV licence and it's prison for a few days.. Why can't they be given community service.. They didn't pay a fine so they're put in prison to cost more money hardly seems like a good plan.

The Backwards Man

Tow wrote: »

240 of free consulting service in how to improve the running of various government departments would be good value for the Irish Tax Payer.

But as this is Ireland, so those 240 will be squandered on sweeping leaves in a park...

They'd probably eat the leaves because a squirrel told them it was OK to do so.

RoboRat

240 of free consulting service in how to improve the running of various government departments would be good value for the Irish Tax Payer.

Are. You. Mad?

Let those 2 advise on how to improve running things?! They are either party to the biggest financial disaster in the history of this country or they were completely useless at their jobs.

I wouldn't let them advise a 5 year old on how to save in a piggy bank.

Macavity.

KungPao wrote: »

Honestly thought you were talking about Jason and Ronnie...

Had better get another coffee!

Haha I thought the exact same.

dickwod1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0731/634154-anglo-irish-bank/

Judge Martin Nolan was handed in reports from the probation service showing both men had cooperated fully with the service and had been assessed as being suitable for community service.
The judge sentenced them each to 240 hours of community service to be completed within the next year.
He said if they had been assessed as being unsuitable for community service, he would have imposed a jail sentence of two years.

2 years in prison or 240 hours community service, WOW that Judge certainly used his discretion wisely

Badly Drunk Boy

KungPao wrote: »

Honestly thought you were talking about Jason and Ronnie...

Had better get another coffee!

Jason had 52 appearances for Ireland, with 3 goals.
Ronnie had 53 appearances for Ireland, with 3 goals.

Similar, a bit.

SpaceTime

I'm talking generally here rather than about the specifics of this case, but the big issue is that while we'd all like to see the bankers get tried and convicted for crashing the economy, you'll find that what most of them did may have been reckless, upsetting and all sorts of other things but in most cases it's not illegal or if it is illegal it's breeches of highly technical minor rules.

Nowhere in the world have any bankers done serious time for economic mayhem that resulted from their actions.

We also can't retrospectively change the law. All we can do is change it so that any future issues don't arise or will be prosecuted if they do.

People keep saying that bankers went to jail in the US - they didn't and the Bernie Madoff case was simple and he admitted everything and it had nothing to do with banking.

Up in Iceland, there's all sorts of question marks over court cases and close connections.

Check out Icelandic equivalent of Vincent Brown & RÚV (Icelandic RTE) London Correspondent, Sigrún Davíðsdóttir's Icelog:

http://uti.is/2014/06/acquittals-and-close-connections/

She's providing a really good analysis of the Icelandic situation and it's not quite the fairy story that we're hearing over here.

buyer95

I can't have been the only person to have seen "So McAteer and Whelan sentenced to 240 hours community service" and thought it was these boys?




http://i60.tinypic.com/hry78l.jpg

dickwod1

It seems like if you commit a crime but you worked for Anglo you'll be ok ... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-anglo-employee-who-defrauded-200k-from-bank-avoids-jail-30459511.html

Jebus Diced

Yep wasn't a fella jailed for 6 years for importing garlic illegally

Resonator75

'Well, your honor, I shot this fella in the face, but I did not realize it was illegal your honor'

'Your free to go'


The lack of interest in this thread speaks volumes.

Its all gonna happen again and again and again.

Fuk it all, Im going as off grid as I can, Im mostly there, the Irish state can suck my cok until it cops the fuk on. Sorry for my drunken wordage.

Way to breed trust in the Republic.

dickwod1

Resonator75 wrote: »

The lack of interest in this thread speaks volumes.

I know, At the end of the trial the Judge actually said "Thank you Gentlemen, Enjoy the community service"

Does a Judge normally thank defendants for going to court?

TwoShedsJackson

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/07/31/anglo-pair-allowed-to-hire-jobbridge-interns-to-complete-community-service/

They top of society will always work hand in hand.

The bottom will whinge and moan about it until the next distraction arrives.

Honestly when there was such uproar about a feckin eegit singer with a cowboy hat for cancelled concerts and nothing about this we deserve everything we get.

Arthur Beesley

eviltwin wrote: »

re the 411 licence non payments what is the point of sending someone to prison for a few hours??

That'll learn them.

dirtyden

dickwod1 wrote: »

Maybe just maybe because of the banks collapsing and ruining our thriving economy and country and housing prices maybe these people could not afford to pay the fine? maybe? just a thought.

If they are that hard up, sell the tv.

dickwod1

dirtyden wrote: »

If they are that hard up, sell the tv.

You can buy brand new 50" 1080p LED tv for around 500 euro,
What gain would there be and to who to sell their dinosaur tv for 50 euro?

renegademaster

eviltwin wrote: »

re the 411 licence non payments what is the point of sending someone to prison for a few hours??

so EVERYONE you come across along the way can be paid for dealing with such criminal scum

Larbre34 wrote: »

So we can expect the imminent arrest of the Financial Regulator board at the time?

Can we f***.

RoboRat wrote: »

(a) Don't pay a €1,000 fine and get sent to prison.
(b) Be a part of the Bankruptcy of the country costing BILLIONS that will last for generations and get some community service.

Makes perfect sense.

Irony is that some of the people who fall into (a) have done so due to the actions of (b).

Utter utter lunacy, when will anybody actually be held accountable for what went on? These guys are not solely to blame but they had a big hand in one facet of it and should be punished accordingly.

SpaceTime wrote: »

There's an inherent unfairness in all adversarial legal systems though. If you've got an expensive lawyer and all the best legal advice, you're going to get more resources poured into your defence.

Money buys good and well presented arguments and lots of research into potential ways out.

...

On the TV Licence thing, I think we need to stop using the prison service as a debt collection mechanism.

It's a bad idea, it's contrary to notions of human rights and we've been criticised for it by the UN.

Secondly, it's also extremely expensive. If you've outstanding fines or unpaid fees/taxes/licences there are other ways of collecting them and that's what most sensible legal systems do!

There's also an unfairness in the sense that a lot of minor things which can lead to jail sentences (i.e. stuff like non payment of TV licence) is often a summary conviction - i.e. tried before a judge with no jury and minimum opportunity for any kind of argument.

dirtyden wrote: »

If they are that hard up, sell the tv.

there will never ever ever be any form of true justice or any hint of accountability so long as the majority in this country consistently show they're fast asheep and couldn't care less

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!

dirtyden

dickwod1 wrote: »

You can buy brand new 50" 1080p LED tv for around 500 euro,
What gain would there be and to who to sell their dinosaur tv for 50 euro?

They would not need a license though, if that is not stating the absolutely blatantly obvious.

dickwod1

dirtyden wrote: »

They would not need a license though, if that is not stating the absolutely blatantly obvious.

So your first course of action if you couldn't afford to pay your tv licence on time would be to sell your tv, hmmm.

So if you cant afford to pay your car tax on time you'd sell your car too?

If you couldn't afford to pay the water charges you'd stop using water,

Cant afford to pay the property tax you'd sell your home.

And so on and so forth. Fair play to you.



Meanwhile the people who had a huge hand in bankrupting the Country walk free from Court but have to do 240 hours community work @ 40 hours a week = 6 weeks "hard" labour doing ...

• ground clearance work and general gardening projects;
• graffiti removal; environmental work;
• recycling projects;
• basic building maintenance and landscaping;
• improvements to park and community facilities;
• painting and decorating in community centres etc;
• assisting voluntary and community clubs, facilities and bodies;
• working with individuals or groups in need;
• supporting local initiatives.

dirtyden

dickwod1 wrote: »

So your first course of action if you couldn't afford to pay your tv licence on time would be to sell your tv, hmmm.

So if you cant afford to pay your car tax on time you'd sell your car too?

If you couldn't afford to pay the water charges you'd stop using water,

Cant afford to pay the property tax you'd sell your home.

And so on and so forth. Fair play to you.



Meanwhile the people who had a huge hand in bankrupting the Country walk free from Court but have to do 240 hours community work @ 40 hours a week = 6 weeks "hard" labour doing ...

• ground clearance work and general gardening projects;
• graffiti removal; environmental work;
• recycling projects;
• basic building maintenance and landscaping;
• improvements to park and community facilities;
• painting and decorating in community centres etc;
• assisting voluntary and community clubs, facilities and bodies;
• working with individuals or groups in need;
• supporting local initiatives.

No I pay my tv licencse. If I could not afford it I would not have a tv, similarly with a car, I pay my tax, but if I could not pay my car tax I would not run a car. You are missing my point and to be fair it was not clear so my fault. If one cannot afford a license one should not have a tv (sell your tv, pay the arrears and move on without a tv), and similarly with a car if one cant afford car tax don't run a car. Your point about being late I don't agree with, you wont be taken to court for missing any of these payments by a day or two, only if you refuse to make any effort to pay. But I only picked on that point in your original post because it has absolutely nothing to do with the other case involving Anglo.

The judge on the Anglo case made a considered judgement based upon his interpretation of the law not based upon anger with the state of the country and a need for a couple of fall guys to pay. The crash was a systemic failure and not just in Ireland. There has not been a flood of bankers going to prison anywhere. The main reason in my opinion for the crash was a systemic failure where immoral people run amok to make huge short term gains without any independent regulation or any kind of internal regulation within these banks. One could go arrest every bank manager in the country and send them to jail for a few years for handing out 120% 50 year mortgages to people who should not have got them. All of these people did the wrong thing and profited hugely from it but they were allowed and to be honest encouraged to do it by the light touch regulation system. Fixing the problems would be more useful than sending people to prison.

Jebus Diced

More about this

Jebus Diced

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/anglo-executives-mcateer-and-whelan-charged-over-alleged-8m-fraud-1.1893644

Anglo executives McAteer and Whelan charged over alleged €8m fraud

PeteFalk78

Leave Jason and Ronnie alone lads.

Damnit somebody in before me

Jebus Diced

https://www.google.ie/search?q=McAteer+and+Whelan+charged&oq=McAteer+and+Whelan+charged&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8#q=McAteer+and+Whelan+charged&tbm=nws

I hope they get to finish this batch of community service before the new one starts, poor fellas doing all that hard labour.