Buying land - how to handle it

bobba_gonna

Some local land has come up for sale and I'm wondering what is the best way to go about buying it. It is bordering our own land, so would be a great addition to our own place.
What I'm asking really is, based on people's own experiences, what is the best way to go about buying it?
There is an asking price, but no mention of an auction. Should I get a solicitor involved from an early stage, or should I just ring the auctioneer and put in a low offer initially myself?

To be honest, it's probably going to be a bit of 'cat and mouse' with the seller, as they will expect me to want to buy it anyway and I don't want to be puffed up with fake bids.

frazzledhome

Has an auctioneer been appointed?
How do you propose to finance this?
Do you have finance in place?
No point bidding without a plan?

If ready to go call auctioneer and make an offer. The only to be at the finish line is to be in the race. If its private treaty be prepared to go the distance, you won't get it as cheap as you think

Nekarsulm

Old saying I heard somewhere.
"If your getting married, tell everyone!
If your buying land, tell no-one"

bobba_gonna

Ok, we've come to an agreement of sorts. A lot of hand spitting and walking away.
So another question - What tax liabilites are there?
Does the buyer have to pay Stamp Duty for example, or is it just the seller.
I just want to cost everything in, before I make a commitment.

Feckthis

bobba_gonna wrote: »

Ok, we've come to an agreement of sorts. A lot of hand spitting and walking away.
So another question - What tax liabilites are there?
Does the buyer have to pay Stamp Duty for example, or is it just the seller.
I just want to cost everything in, before I make a commitment.

Was there an auction after? How much ye paying an acre. gwan and tell us

Congratulations by the way!

ABlur

bobba_gonna wrote: »

Ok, we've come to an agreement of sorts. A lot of hand spitting and walking away.
So another question - What tax liabilites are there?
Does the buyer have to pay Stamp Duty for example, or is it just the seller.
I just want to cost everything in, before I make a commitment.

Congrats on your purchase, stamp duty of 2% due from you

kowtow

ABlur wrote: »

Congrats on your purchase, stamp duty of 2% due from you

Unless you are buying from your Mother in which case I think it might be 1%

smokey-fitz

kowtow wrote: »

Unless you are buying from your Mother in which case I think it might be 1%

At least mammy will give you a good deal :P

jus_tin4

You'll have CGT and stamp duty at 2%, contact your accountant tho to clarify

J.O. Farmer

jus_tin4 wrote: »

You'll have CGT and stamp duty at 2%, contact your accountant tho to clarify

He won't have capital gains tax if he's buying only when selling.

ganmo

Seeing as it's a neighbour who's expecting you to want it. Make an enquiry to de auctioneer maybe put in an offer(low) but get a solicitor to make the rest of the bids for you anonymously.

Muckit

Also be wise to the fact that there could be lads bidding against you that wouldn't have the price of a box of matches.

Carey7

I am just nearing the end of this process of buying land beside me. It is a long costly business that I often wonder if I'm mad. Anyway few points for you. Make sure your tax affairs are up to date (mine were swayed towards loss making for tax purposes) not good idea when going to the bank. Secondly BANKS!!!! I found my bank awful (1000 questions) and solicitors, land registry, stamp duty (anyway to squeeze money from you!!! But it's great to have a father who's motto is "sure their not making anymore" and "it's a once in a life time opportunity".
My advice keep smiling, keep calm and if and if (that's not a spelling mistake!) you can afford it then go ahead!

kowtow

ganmo wrote: »

Seeing as it's a neighbour who's expecting you to want it. Make an enquiry to de auctioneer maybe put in an offer(low) but get a solicitor to make the rest of the bids for you anonymously.

b***x to that. Do the job properly.

Create one development company and one farming investment company, both resident in Ireland, but limited by guarantee. Use professional directors, and make charities or charitable trusts the sole shareholders. Change the constitution of the companies to ensure that the guarantor (you) has control but no liability and is not subject to any rules of identity whatsoever.

Get them to bid up the land against each other using two separate buying agents, until the owner has the money spent three times over in his head.

Regretfully go yourself and look at other land nearby, let it be known that you are close to buying it, and get a zero grazer on trial after telling your neighbour that his game is too rich entirely for your taste.

Pull one or both of the bidders out and step in as the white knight with a low ball offer at the last minute, give the seller 24 hours before you "sign" on the alternative land you are considering.

RightTurnClyde

kowtow wrote: »

b***x to that. Do the job properly.

Create one development company and one farming investment company, both resident in Ireland, but limited by guarantee. Use professional directors, and make charities or charitable trusts the sole shareholders. Change the constitution of the companies to ensure that the guarantor (you) has control but no liability and is not subject to any rules of identity whatsoever.

Get them to bid up the land against each other using two separate buying agents, until the owner has the money spent three times over in his head.

Regretfully go yourself and look at other land nearby, let it be known that you are close to buying it, and get a zero grazer on trial after telling your neighbour that his game is too rich entirely for your taste.

Pull one or both of the bidders out and step in as the white knight with a low ball offer at the last minute, give the seller 24 hours before you "sign" on the alternative land you are considering.

:) brilliant

bobba_gonna

Thanks guys. To be honest it's only a small piece of land. I would have no interest only that it is bordering my own.

bobba_gonna

Looks like 1% Stamp Duty alright, according to some Teagsc document I found

keep going

kowtow wrote: »

b***x to that. Do the job properly.

Create one development company and one farming investment company, both resident in Ireland, but limited by guarantee. Use professional directors, and make charities or charitable trusts the sole shareholders. Change the constitution of the companies to ensure that the guarantor (you) has control but no liability and is not subject to any rules of identity whatsoever.

Get them to bid up the land against each other using two separate buying agents, until the owner has the money spent three times over in his head.

Regretfully go yourself and look at other land nearby, let it be known that you are close to buying it, and get a zero grazer on trial after telling your neighbour that his game is too rich entirely for your taste.

Pull one or both of the bidders out and step in as the white knight with a low ball offer at the last minute, give the seller 24 hours before you "sign" on the alternative land you are considering.

Brilliant as long as there is no one else bidding on it.know your own business and do your own business,

PatQfarmer

kowtow wrote: »

b***x to that. Do the job properly.

Create one development company and one farming investment company, both resident in Ireland, but limited by guarantee. Use professional directors, and make charities or charitable trusts the sole shareholders. Change the constitution of the companies to ensure that the guarantor (you) has control but no liability and is not subject to any rules of identity whatsoever.

Get them to bid up the land against each other using two separate buying agents, until the owner has the money spent three times over in his head.

Regretfully go yourself and look at other land nearby, let it be known that you are close to buying it, and get a zero grazer on trial after telling your neighbour that his game is too rich entirely for your taste.

Pull one or both of the bidders out and step in as the white knight with a low ball offer at the last minute, give the seller 24 hours before you "sign" on the alternative land you are considering.

Lol!! Spoken like an expert!
I'm an auctioneer and have seen lads try that strategy...but not with such detail.
You should apply to some of those Hedge Funds for a job:D

kowtow

PatQfarmer wrote: »

You should apply to some of those Hedge Funds for a job:D

Hmmm... been there... now retired to something which is really complex & full of daily risk and excitement.. milking cows!

Farmer Pudsey

bobba_gonna wrote: »

Ok, we've come to an agreement of sorts. A lot of hand spitting and walking away.
So another question - What tax liabilites are there?
Does the buyer have to pay Stamp Duty for example, or is it just the seller.
I just want to cost everything in, before I make a commitment.

When buying or selling land you can do little about Stamp duties, taxes etc. However things are in your control, solicitors fees, Auctioneer fees and interest.

OP you have no Auctioneers fees to pay however the other two need to be delt with. You may have to pay the bank as well as your own solicitor if you are borrowing money. So you have to bargin with both. Especially you have to be hard nosed with the bank over there solicitor fees as he is only rubberstamping your solicitors work.

You then have to bargin with the bank over interest rates.

Zoo4m8

bobba_gonna wrote: »

Looks like 1% Stamp Duty alright, according to some Teagsc document I found

Right, I signed off on a place yesterday afternoon, here's what you have to cough up,

Legal fees, which will include the usual stuff, postage, phone etc plus vat @ 23%

Stamp duty @ 2%

Land registry fee, in my case €915

Searches, in my case €171

That was it..done, dusted..

I didn't have to borrow, it was a roll over .. But dealing with the bank on interest rates in connection with something else recently I found they have got very hard nosed, well at least BOI has..

farmerjj

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Right, I signed off on a place yesterday afternoon, here's what you have to cough up,

Legal fees, which will include the usual stuff, postage, phone etc plus vat @ 23%

Stamp duty @ 2%

Land registry fee, in my case €915

Searches, in my case €171

That was it..done, dusted..

I didn't have to borrow, it was a roll over .. But dealing with the bank on interest rates in connection with something else recently I found they have got very hard nosed, well at least BOI has..

Did you get a engineer or someone to check all the boundaries and acreage are right?

Zoo4m8

Good man! We did, forgotten about that , it was three months ago. Because two of us were buying the place and were going to divide it we hired a land survey company, we staked out our agreed dividing line and they produced very tidy maps and their areas agreed very closely to what we had estimated. The cost was €500 each.
We had a couple sets of original maps for the place, some very old and some more recent with revised internal boundaries. Before having the survey done I wouldn't have bothered if I was buying the entire myself but having seen the process and with the relatively low cost it probably would be well worth doing if there was any doubts at all over areas.

Greengrass1

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Good man! We did, forgotten about that , it was three months ago. Because two of us were buying the place and were going to divide it we hired a land survey company, we staked out our agreed dividing line and they produced very tidy maps and their areas agreed very closely to what we had estimated. The cost was €500 each.
We had a couple sets of original maps for the place, some very old and some more recent with revised internal boundaries. Before having the survey done I wouldn't have bothered if I was buying the entire myself but having seen the process and with the relatively low cost it probably would be well worth doing if there was any doubts at all over areas.

We did that here when buying here. Very worthwhile. Was less acres than what was for sale ended up reducing price but would have preferred get the 15ac the owners had kept back for themselves that was sold at a later date.
Oh well. hindsight

milkprofit

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Right, I signed off on a place yesterday afternoon, here's what you have to cough up,

Legal fees, which will include the usual stuff, postage, phone etc plus vat @ 23%

Stamp duty @ 2%

Land registry fee, in my case €915

Searches, in my case €171

That was it..done, dusted..

I didn't have to borrow, it was a roll over .. But dealing with the bank on interest rates in connection with something else recently I found they have got very hard nosed, well at least BOI has..

what percent legal fees

Zoo4m8

About 1%..

Deepsouthwest

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

About 1%..

I didn't think solicitors fees were done on percentages, was sure they all worked on an agreed fee. I thought that it was only auctioneers worked on a percentage, and even that's wide open to negotiation. U wouldn't want to be buying for a few million and handing out percentages to all involved!

Farmer Pudsey

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

I didn't think solicitors fees were done on percentages, was sure they all worked on an agreed fee. I thought that it was only auctioneers worked on a percentage, and even that's wide open to negotiation. U wouldn't want to be buying for a few million and handing out percentages to all involved!

Lots of solicitors try to charge using %'s for transactions like that

Greengrass1

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

I didn't think solicitors fees were done on percentages, was sure they all worked on an agreed fee. I thought that it was only auctioneers worked on a percentage, and even that's wide open to negotiation. U wouldn't want to be buying for a few million and handing out percentages to all involved!

I think zoo doesnt want to give out figures so just giving it to us at the percentage it cost relative to the land cost

Deepsouthwest

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Lots of solicitors try to charge using %'s for transactions like that

My guy has a set fee, which he has charged me for big and small parcels, although never a v big parcel, 14 acres being the biggest. I should add he is a friend of mine that I used to play football with!

Zoo4m8

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

I didn't think solicitors fees were done on percentages, was sure they all worked on an agreed fee. I thought that it was only auctioneers worked on a percentage, and even that's wide open to negotiation. U wouldn't want to be buying for a few million and handing out percentages to all involved!

About 1% is what it happened to work out at for me! it was fairly straightforward and I was very happy to pay it particularly as he waived his fee for another job he did previous to this one.
When I sold the couple pieces that paid for this one my solicitor at the time ( since retired) charged 1%, but there was a lot of work involved dealing with the sort of lads that were on the go in the good times and again I was happy to pay..

Zoo4m8

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

My guy has a set fee, which he has charged me for big and small parcels, although never a v big parcel, 14 acres being the biggest. I should add he is a friend of mine that I used to play football with!

He dos'nt count..:D

Zoo4m8

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I think zoo doesnt want to give out figures so just giving it to us at the percentage it cost relative to the land cost

Nail on the head!