Buses - people who stand in the gangway / at the white line

Victor

I'm wondering what the thought process is for the people who stand in the gangway / at the white line. I'm not talking about the people who move up a little early or misjudge their stop, more the ones who spend their entire journey there, but aren't the "bus driver's friend". There is a pattern that is it young or older women and possibly a higher proportion of non-Irish people, but I don't think it is restricted to those groups.

While older people seem to be prone to being a bit anxious and zealous to get on the bus at busy stops, it is rare that anyone is left **on** the bus after it pulls off, so it is hardly an effort to be first off. There may also be an element of needing to look out the front of the bus for landmarks.

Admittedly, some people prefer to stand whether due to medical issues or having sat all day, but they should be able to stand further back in the bus.

Jamie2k9

I prefer to stand if there is no window seats available upstairs and I never sit downstairs on DB services. The reasons are I hate sitting beside somebody who has the window seat as its unconformable and as the size of bus seats has not grown like peoples wastes it makes the situation worse and I get annoyed. As for not sitting downstairs, its simply the fact I don't get a good view out because you are so low.

Even on trains unless I really wanted a seat I would stand until a window seat is free and I had no reservation.

icdg

Once the maximum number of people standing downstairs are reached, the bus is no longer allowed to pick up passengers. I have seen people (including myself!) left behind at bus stops because too many people are standing downstairs while there are still free seats upstairs.

AlekSmart

Victor wrote: »

I'm wondering what the thought process is for the people who stand in the gangway / at the white line. I'm not talking about the people who move up a little early or misjudge their stop, more the ones who spend their entire journey there......
.......... but they should be able to stand further back in the bus.

My absolute pet hate !!! :mad:

But,I have to say these people tend to be VERY resolute in their willingness to clamp themselves to the Luggage Pen and Block the one gangway allowing OTHERS to enter and leave the bus.

With the majority of our fleet being single door'd,any impediment at the Luggage Pen area is CERTAIN to cause a disproportionate level of disruption to OTHER customers.

I try whenever possible to hit immediately upon such "Clampers",reminding them that space exists down at the back of the bus,where they may wave out at folks who have missed the bus.

These people tend to be very Catholic in their perception of Public Transport,with a strong belief that the Bus is solely for their own personal use,with any other users reluctantly tolerated,if at all.

Only today,I had to virtually baton-charge a large lady who stood there whilst a wheelchair bound foreign tourist attempted to access the Wheelchair Space.....the lady concerned fully expected the Wheelchair to squeeze past her considerable bulk,and was MOST aggrieved when I told her to move along out ofthe way...:eek:

It may stem,I fear,from our reluctance to accept that Public Transport is generally a Mass Transit operation with compromises having to be endured by those who really desire a Private Hire (Taxi) style service....Omnibus=Movement for ALL....not just You Mrs

Aard

In my completely non-objective experience, I too have found that it is mainly women who do this. And that they simply do not budge when people are trying to pass them, whereas men will jump out of the way before it even becomes an issue.

corktina

icdg wrote: »

Once the maximum number of people standing downstairs are reached, the bus is no longer allowed to pick up passengers. I have seen people (including myself!) left behind at bus stops because too many people are standing downstairs while there are still free seats upstairs.

the driver has a camera to check that. I doubt it happens

punisher5112

There are certain drivers who don't stop if there are only 5 standing and could be loads of seats. This does happen and they love passing the stops letting the rest of us pick up and fill our bus.

Some stand up at the front as they are afraid they will miss there stop and on occasion this would even end up been the last stop just they don't seem to have much working in their brain department.

Also what is happening a lot is bus stops especially around town are been blocked by coaches, delivery vans,taxi and cars oh and tour buses and council, cops and management know but will do nothing so bus drivers are advised to bypass these affected stops.

ArmaniJeanss

If you wish to stand (for whatever reason) then towards the front is the most obvious and comfortable place as you have a 'wall' beside you. Stand towards the middle or back and you are towering over seated people which is just weird and awkward for all, and also have nothing to lean against.

So really the question is 'why do people wish to stand' rather than 'why do they stand there?'.

icdg

corktina wrote: »

the driver has a camera to check that. I doubt it happens

It happens alright, though to be fair it would be mostly during events when buses can fill up at early stops (match days etc). The driver can indeed check, but the most he can do is make an announcement and ask people to sit down. There's nothing else really he can do about it since there's no regulations being broken and some people just won't go upstairs on a bus.

AlekSmart

punisher5112 wrote: »

Some stand up at the front as they are afraid they will miss their stop and on occasion this would even end up been the last stop just they don't seem to have much working in their brain department.

True enough....have to say the arrival of the GT Class has given a small opportunity to do a Pavlov's Dog procedure on these folks.

Repeatedly asking them to move down along the bus,being repeatedly ignored as they scan the celiling,floor,Irish Times etc etc.....Ditto repeating the "Please use Centre Doors to Exit" announcement....;) (There's a hint there)

Upon arrrival at their stop,a sudden switching-on of the Christmas Tree lights as they bound up to the closed front door....takes a while before they realize that the folks down the back have exited before them through the OPEN Centre Door..;)

Human behaviour in group situations is quite often VASTLY different from what may be the norm otherwise.....:)

Our native background tells us that the primacy of the Individual is paramount....many other societies,particularly those with the functional,efficient Public Transport Systems returning holidaymakers wax lyrical about,tend to be premised on the "collective" or "greater good"....We've yet to decide which Societal Type we want....;)

bk

AlekSmart wrote: »

Repeatedly asking them to move down along the bus,being repeatedly ignored as they scan the celiling,floor,Irish Times etc etc.....Ditto repeating the "Please use Centre Doors to Exit" announcement....;) (There's a hint there)

In fairness many if not most drivers seems to ignore that message themselves and don't open the rare doors!!

Really, I'm very tired of drivers not using the rare doors at every stop. It just leads to confusion when people are waiting at the rare door that doesn't open and then are forced to scramble through the crowds to use the front door :mad:

And it isn't fair to punish people who have made there way to the front of the bus like this, when so many drivers continue to not use the rare doors!

I suggest that DB and the NTA need to enforce the use of the rare door at ALL stops, all the time.

In other countries they have a flappy gate by the white line on the front door that only opens in. Thus forcing people to always use the rare door to exit. I suggest we install these on the GT's and all future buses to enforce 100% dual door usage.

Perhaps DB/NTA can designate some routes as 100% dual door use, fix any stops that aren't compatible with dual doors on these routes and use the GT's exclusively on these routes.

As DB buys new dual door buses every year, then also update these routes to dual door spec. So that over the space of 10 years or so, all bus stops are made dual door compatible and people can gradually get use to it.

The current hodge podge Irish approach is just not working.

schemingbohemia

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

If you wish to stand (for whatever reason) then towards the front is the most obvious and comfortable place as you have a 'wall' beside you. Stand towards the middle or back and you are towering over seated people which is just weird and awkward for all, and also have nothing to lean against.

So really the question is 'why do people wish to stand' rather than 'why do they stand there?'.

No, the question is, why do people travelling on public transport not realise they have responsibilities to their fellow passengers:

by leaving space for them to get on/off the bus,
by not sitting on the outside whilst leaving the interior seat free but passively aggressively forcing people to ask to sit down,
by leaving their bag/newspaper/jacket on the seat,
by listening to their music through awful headphones so everyone else has to listen to them,
by forcing their phone conversations on others

It's Irish mefeinism at it's worst.

foggy_lad

icdg wrote: »

It happens alright, though to be fair it would be mostly during events when buses can fill up at early stops (match days etc). The driver can indeed check, but the most he can do is make an announcement and ask people to sit down. There's nothing else really he can do about it since there's no regulations being broken and some people just won't go upstairs on a bus.

Can drivers not just park the bus at the particular stop and inform all present that they will be going nowhere fast until those clamped onto the aisle have moved back or upstairs or gotten off the bus.

They would only have to do this a few times on each affected route for the usual suspects to stop or get a taxi instead of discommoding so many public transport users.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

In fairness many if not most drivers seems to ignore that message themselves and don't open the rare doors!!

Really, I'm very tired of drivers not using the rare doors at every stop. It just leads to confusion when people are waiting at the rare door that doesn't open and then are forced to scramble through the crowds to use the front door :mad:

And it isn't fair to punish people who have made there way to the front of the bus like this, when so many drivers continue to not use the rare doors!


I suggest that DB and the NTA need to enforce the use of the rare door at ALL stops, all the time.

In other countries they have a flappy gate by the white line on the front door that only opens in. Thus forcing people to always use the rare door to exit. I suggest we install these on the GT's and all future buses to enforce 100% dual door usage.

Perhaps DB/NTA can designate some routes as 100% dual door use, fix any stops that aren't compatible with dual doors on these routes and use the GT's exclusively on these routes.

As DB buys new dual door buses every year, then also update these routes to dual door spec. So that over the space of 10 years or so, all bus stops are made dual door compatible and people can gradually get use to it.

The current hodge podge Irish approach is just not working.

No "punishment" involved at all.....as the individuals concerned never "made their way" any further than the Luggage Pen,before attaching themselves solidly to it,thus forcing the remainder of those BOARDING to squeeze past when getting ON.....so in the interests of fairness,I tend to make it easier for those who have complied to get OFF without having to embrace the Luggage Rail Clampers again....

The uni-directional gate was inspected,considered and turned down due to concerns regarding less mobile and disabled customers..front mounted wheelchair ramp,driver interaction when boarding etc etc...(Obviously Irish people in these categories are somehow different from those in the "other countries" bk speaks of ?)

The most sensible approach when using multi-door boarding is "Board through ALL Doors" approach which works well elsewhere :rolleyes:....and it's worth bearing in mind that vehicles from the GT class onwards are hardwired for Smartcard Readers at the Centre Door.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

Can drivers not just park the bus at the particular stop and inform all present that they will be going nowhere fast until those clamped onto the aisle have moved back or upstairs or gotten off the bus.

They would only have to do this a few times on each affected route for the usual suspects to stop or get a taxi instead of discommoding so many public transport users.

Have done....do it regularly...and will continue to do it......ALWAYS entails ill-feeling,some muttered cursing and dark looks directed at me.....however,it can often get me some thank-you's from exiting passengers further along the route...particularly from those who would otherwise be left standing thanks to the I'M SPECIAL! attitude of many of the "usual suspects".

On single door'd vehicles,it's not rocket science to recognise that if you stand in the single lane gangway,you are blocking it for EVERYBODY else..if it IS Rocket Science,then be grateful for the education available on your commute..at NO extra Charge

horseburger

AlekSmart wrote: »

Have done....do it regularly...and will continue to do it......ALWAYS entails ill-feeling,some muttered cursing and dark looks directed at me.....however,it can often get me some thank-you's from exiting passengers further along the route...particularly from those who would otherwise be left standing thanks to the I'M SPECIAL! attitude of many of the "usual suspects".

On single door'd vehicles,it's not rocket science to recognise that if you stand in the single lane gangway,you are blocking it for EVERYBODY else..if it IS Rocket Science,then be grateful for the education available on your commute..at NO extra Charge

Do you drive the number 16, or number 9?:)

One of the drivers did this, on the bus, it was either a 16 or number 9, on Dame Street recently before turning left for George's Street.:)

Boulevardier

If I see a person standing near the driver, I usually feel entitled to assume (unless the bus is very full) that the bus will be calling at the next stop and so I don't need to push the button.

I really hate it when it turns out the fellow standing at the front is just chilling with the driver, and the bus goes past the stop I had expected to get off at.

Also, these front-standers often slow the bus down significantly with their chat.

Drivers should tell such passengers to leave them to get on with their driving.

horseburger

Boulevardier wrote: »

If I see a person standing near the driver, I usually feel entitled to assume (unless the bus is very full) that the bus will be calling at the next stop and so I don't need to push the button.

I really hate it when it turns out the fellow standing at the front is just chilling with the driver, and the bus goes past the stop I had expected to get off at.

Also, these front-standers often slow the bus down significantly with their chat.

Drivers should tell such passengers to leave them to get on with their driving.

You should press the button anyway, to be certain.

If there is someone else getting off at that stop and they have already pressed the button, the bell won't ring a second time, when you press it, as far as I know.

So there'd be no harm in you pressing it, to make sure.

AlekSmart

horseburger wrote: »

You should press the button anyway, to be certain.

If there is someone else getting off at that stop and they have already pressed the button, the bell won't ring a second time, when you press it, as far as I know.

So there'd be no harm in you pressing it, to make sure.

Absolutely,take responsibility for your own demands,don't assume anything in relation to the other person.

On most of the fleet nowadays,the bell will not ring again,but the Warning Light will continue to flash...;)

Mrs OBumble

Personally I would remove half of the seats from the bottom floor of all buses.

Leave some for the old / infirm / preggers etc.

The rest can stand: the population is getting obese anyway, and anything that helps them burn calories is A Good Thing.

And if there was more standing space, the front-huggers might be more inclined to move.

horseburger

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Personally I would remove half of the seats from the bottom floor of all buses.

Leave some for the old / infirm / preggers etc.

The rest can stand: the population is getting obese anyway, and anything that helps them burn calories is A Good Thing.

And if there was more standing space, the front-huggers might be more inclined to move.

By just standing I can burn calories?:)

Tell me more please!:D

Edit: I just googled it:): http://lifehacker.com/standing-for-3-hours-a-day-on-weekdays-is-like-running-1447078889

Aard

I know we're in the minority in the world since we use double-deckers, but is there any precedent or indeed would there be any merit in having longitudinal seating downstairs, at least in part? As mentioned above, downstairs can become very packed very fast, while seats go unclaimed upstairs. Maybe it's not a great idea though, especially with the start-stop nature of Dublin bus routes, not to mention speed ramps.

Victor

Boulevardier wrote: »

Also, these front-standers often slow the bus down significantly with their chat.

You seem to be confusing the 'front standers' with the 'drivers mate', unless one is the reincarnation of the other.

horseburger

AlekSmart wrote: »

Absolutely,take responsibility for your own demands,don't assume anything in relation to the other person.

On most of the fleet nowadays,the bell will not ring again,but the Warning Light will continue to flash...;)

thanks for clarifying that for me, I had noticed it didn't ring when I pressed it recently and I guessed it was because the person in front of me, who was also alighting at the same stop, had already pressed it.

dfx-

Victor wrote: »

I'm wondering what the thought process is for the people who stand in the gangway / at the white line. I'm not talking about the people who move up a little early or misjudge their stop, more the ones who spend their entire journey there, but aren't the "bus driver's friend". There is a pattern that is it young or older women and possibly a higher proportion of non-Irish people, but I don't think it is restricted to those groups.

While older people seem to be prone to being a bit anxious and zealous to get on the bus at busy stops, it is rare that anyone is left **on** the bus after it pulls off, so it is hardly an effort to be first off. There may also be an element of needing to look out the front of the bus for landmarks.

Admittedly, some people prefer to stand whether due to medical issues or having sat all day, but they should be able to stand further back in the bus.

A bit anxious and zealous? Overwhelmingly so. This annoys me more than anything else.

Standing further back may not be possible in terms of the pram/wheelchair seat. It would equally delay the departure of others. There's even less space for people to pass by further down the bus. Any user of a full bus who sits at the back seat downstairs would know this.

Really, once you're behind the white line, what does it matter..what next - assigned seating?

kravmaga

Victor wrote: »

I'm wondering what the thought process is for the people who stand in the gangway / at the white line. I'm not talking about the people who move up a little early or misjudge their stop, more the ones who spend their entire journey there, but aren't the "bus driver's friend". There is a pattern that is it young or older women and possibly a higher proportion of non-Irish people, but I don't think it is restricted to those groups.

While older people seem to be prone to being a bit anxious and zealous to get on the bus at busy stops, it is rare that anyone is left **on** the bus after it pulls off, so it is hardly an effort to be first off. There may also be an element of needing to look out the front of the bus for landmarks.

Admittedly, some people prefer to stand whether due to medical issues or having sat all day, but they should be able to stand further back in the bus.

Maybe the "Pass bud" brigade...:D

Baron Kurtz

schemingbohemia wrote: »

No, the question is, why do people travelling on public transport not realise they have responsibilities to their fellow passengers:

by leaving space for them to get on/off the bus,
by not sitting on the outside whilst leaving the interior seat free but passively aggressively forcing people to ask to sit down,
by leaving their bag/newspaper/jacket on the seat,
by listening to their music through awful headphones so everyone else has to listen to them,
by forcing their phone conversations on others

It's Irish mefeinism at it's worst.

I think you're asking a bit too much here. And if I might say for the latter couple of points a tad dictatorial; anally retentive.
There should be a degree of awareness from these bus users naturally, but if you were the controlling factor on who uses this transport (with the stuffy, grandad routine) then nobody would get on. Probably suit you perfectly

Tow

horseburger wrote: »

You should press the button anyway, to be certain.

Not much good when the driver is too busy chatting and just sails by the stop. Then you get the look and silence from him when ask 'are not stopping'...

foggy_lad

schemingbohemia wrote: »

No, the question is, why do people travelling on public transport not realise they have responsibilities to their fellow passengers:

by leaving space for them to get on/off the bus,
by not sitting on the outside whilst leaving the interior seat free but passively aggressively forcing people to ask to sit down,
by leaving their bag/newspaper/jacket on the seat,
by listening to their music through awful headphones so everyone else has to listen to them,
by forcing their phone conversations on others

It's Irish mefeinism at it's worst.

This kind of thing annoys the hell out of me on all public transport. Many people will see you looking for a seat and quickly grab their few bits off the seat next to them to allow you sit there but I have seen so many people, women mostly bring large suitcases onto buses and stuff them down in the foot well beside them thus blocking that seat from being used by anyone else. Another favourite are the sleepers, again mostly women who have a bag and maybe coat on the seat and pretend to be asleep as others board the bus/train. Both of these issues as well as the ™clamp-ons" are easily sorted out with minimal staff input such as coach drivers not allowing anyone bring suitcases or airline carry-on sized cases on board or making announcements that seats are not for your feet or your bags and coats as others want to sit there.

AlekSmart

Baron Kurtz wrote: »

I think you're asking a bit too much here. And if I might say for the latter couple of points a tad dictatorial; anally retentive.
There should be a degree of awareness from these bus users naturally, but if you were the controlling factor on who uses this transport (with the stuffy, grandad routine) then nobody would get on. Probably suit you perfectly

AND....Baron Kurtz.....he omitted the Nose Pickers :eek: !!!!

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

AND....Baron Kurtz.....he omitted the Nose Pickers :eek: !!!!

And the gum chewers who deposit their spent gum onto the seats and in coaches it can usually be found on the seat recline handles/levers.

hmmm

foggy_lad wrote: »

This kind of thing annoys the hell out of me on all public transport.

If someone is obviously struggling under a big bag or a load of shopping, I'll move to another seat, but if someone is leaving their rucksack or coat on a seat when there's few going it won't kill you to pick it up and hand it to them. The look of outrage makes the seat all the more comfortable.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

Really, I'm very tired of drivers not using the rare doors at every stop. It just leads to confusion when people are waiting at the rare door that doesn't open and then are forced to scramble through the crowds to use the front door :mad:

I suggest that DB and the NTA need to enforce the use of the rare door at ALL stops, all the time.

The current hodge podge Irish approach is just not working.

Referring to enforcement is all well and good,but for this to work,it has to be backed up by the relevant enforceable procedures.

In the case of multi-door usage it is covered quite succinctly in the Dublin Bus Bye-Laws.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Boarding-and-Alighting/

8. Where notices are exhibited on a vehicle indicating that a door shall be used for entrance and another door for exit (except in the case of an accident or other emergency or with the consent of an authorised person) a person shall not board or attempt to board the vehicle by the door indicated for exit or alight from or attempt to alight from the vehicle by the door indicated for entrance.

However,it should be noted that in the case of the current,NTA specified,Dual Doored GT fleet, NO such notices exist.

So in theory,could this absence of signage be taken to allow boarding and alighting by either door at any time....?

It is,as they say,a grey area it would seem ?