Dovetails or Box joints for underbed drawer

Seve OB

I'm new here and new to woodworking, well on this scale anyway. Have no problems with hammer and nails or a screwdriver, but never tried proper joining before. I'm looking to do this right though, so I guess I have a few questions.

Making 6 big under bed storage drawers to hold clothes / electrics / CD's, shoes etc., basically any kinda junk! All different sizes but all roughly around 75-90cm square and between 17 and 28 cm deep

Tools
I just got a second hand Mac 1200w router (never used one before) and a loan of a aldi/lidl router table. Will this do the job for me or do I need anything else? Have seen the Dovetail jigs that can be got, so maybe picking one of these up is the clever thing to do?

Material
I have 18mm WBP plywood for sides and back of drawer, and have some plain and veneered MDF which I am going to use for the front panels. Not bought yet, but I was thinking of this Malaysian WBP Plywood in either the 4mm or 5.5mm for the drawer bottoms.

Method
I have the wood cut to size now for the backs and sides, though it needs a bit of a sanding as it is still rough around the edges. I was going to join these with either box joints or dovetails so would appreciate any advice here on which is best. I presume having the dovetail jig here will be easiest way to do either?

I haven't cut the front panels out yet, but I planning to make them a bit bigger than the drawer itself, to basically cover the whole of the opening they will slot into. Actual drawer height will be less due to wheels and a bit of clearance at the top, and will also make the front panels a little wider.

I was going to do a sliding dovetail joint with the front so the joint won't be seen and it will allow me to make the front wider. So cut a dovetail groove up from the bottom of front panel up to about 2cm from the top and slide the drawer in place, fill the bottom of the groove with some kind of putty.

hope i've explained my plans clearly and would appreciate any feedback and advice any of you experienced folk can throw my way.

recipio

My honest advice to you is to scrap all of the above plans as they would challenge even an experienced cabinetmaker.
Drawers under a bed work quite well on castors and they can be very basic as they are generally not seen.I would simply make an 18 mm rebate on the fronts and screw on the sides or dowel them if you don't like the appearance of the screwheads.
For the bottoms you will need at least 8 mm ply let into a groove or screwed on underneath.
Never use MDF for drawer sides in a carcass as they will swell with the seasons and stick - castors are fine.
A tablesaw would make the above but castors are pricey items - shop around. Just my tuppence ha'penny worth.

Seve OB

Recipio, thanks for the tips. I had thought of a rebate for the front but I guess I was trying to challenge myself!! You are right though, and I will look out for some 8mm ply for the base

As you say, castors are expensive so I am going to try this for the wheels as I have a few old pairs of skates up in the attic.

I spoke with a friend the other day who is a cabinet maker, and he reckoned I would be well able for it, but a jig is the way to go. Jig has been ordered and should arrive tomorrow!

I'll post up a few pics as I go if anyone is interested.

recipio

Fair enough, I like the idea of recycling the wheels.
There are many ways of joining drawer sides to the front board but they all have a learning curve. I don't think you can use cheap plywood to make dovetails - the stuff will splinter all over the place. 'Baltic' or multilayer ply will work but its tricky to get and pricey.
The back joints can be much more simple - maybe a rebate in the sides set back 30mm for the back board ?
One tip I'd recommend is to machine a groove for the base and glue in 8mm ply. It will automatically square the drawer and give it a lot of strength. Anything thinner will buckle and eventually break. Best of luck.

Seve OB

thanks for that. I have a bit of spare wood so will be practising before I do anything for definite. Have a router table so will machine grove the base in using that.

recipio

stevieob wrote: »

thanks for that. I have a bit of spare wood so will be practising before I do anything for definite. Have a router table so will machine grove the base in using that.

Grand.The groove should be snug but not too tight so measure the thickness of the base and make the groove about 0.5mm wider + plane a slight chamfer on the base before inserting. Measure the diagonals to check for squareness -
trisquares are not use use here.

Seve OB

would you rout the grove or cut the dovetails first? or does it make a difference

oh yea, and I tried a tester for the dovetails. first go was way to tight, would not get them in at all and it took a while to realise the problem! I had the blade set to low. Next one fitted, but probably a bit to snug, had to hammer them in with my rubber mallet and now won't come apart, no glue required there!

I presume there should be a bit of give or would this be ok?

recipio

Make the dovetails first. You have to decide if the groove is going through a pin or tail. They are going to be seen either way unless stopped on the router table which is more trouble than its worth. About 10 mm up from the base edge is about right. What materials are you using - and this is practice with the jig ?

Seve OB

So I got the jig and it looked everything like what I seen in all the videos on the internet. I thought it was going to be just as easy to use and that I would be taking it out of the box be using it within a few minutes. Eh Eh, not the case. It might even be considered a little intimidating at first for a complete novice like me who has never done any proper woodwork before.

The jig is actually quite confusing to use. I looked at plenty of videos on the net before I got one. They all made it look easy. The instructions that came with it were not great at all to be honest, they are quite poor and pretty difficult to get your head around. I read through them once with just the jig, but got a little better understanding once I put a bit of wood in. They could do with a few simple diagrams. However after the first cut, I was left scratching my head and thinking I may have gotten in out of my depth here!

It took me a little while to figure out what was wrong with my cut, and slowly realised it wasn't as bad as I first thought. It was to tight. as in way to tight! So reading through the instructions again, I found one little tiny tip as opposed to instruction which helped me. It was along the lines of heighten to tighten and lower to loosen.

A couple of small adjustments later and this is the result of my second ever attempt at doing a dovetail joint using the Jig. Still a little tight, it wouldn't go together without the help of my trusty wooden mallet, but not bad if I say so myself.

[URL="[url=https://flic.kr/p/oxS95R][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5575/14800443065_6154cc4673_z.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/oxS95R]2nd Dovetail test[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people//]stevieob[/url], on Flickr"][/url]2nd Dovetail test by stevieob, on Flickr

As you can see, I'm using plywood. A bit rough around the edges, and results in not nearly as clean a cut as what I spotted in the videos on the web, but it is holding together as well as I would expect.

So on reflection, the jig is quite easy to use after the first play with it. Took a good hour to understand it and get it set up the first time, a couple more small adjustments are still required, say 2 more test cuts, 15-20 minutes, should have me set up. Key is obviously in the setup, and making sure that right, so if it takes another hour, that's OK, because once the jig is setup correctly, all i need to do is make sure the wood is in correctly and 5 minutes per cut should be plenty.

I'm looking forward to this weekend, as I hope to get a bit of decent weather and cover my back garden with sawdust.

recipio

Well done.
you have to serve as an apprentice to master some jigs ! That ply is multilayer so obviously machines well. What jig do you have. ? Some are a bit short at 30 cms or so but of course the long 60 cm jigs are expensive. You will find that the material makes a big difference - soft ply will 'squeeze' together but a hardwood like maple will need fine tuning to get a good fit.
I use a Woodrat jig which took me a few weeks to get my head around.

Seve OB

recipio wrote: »

Well done.
you have to serve as an apprentice to master some jigs ! That ply is multilayer so obviously machines well. What jig do you have. ? Some are a bit short at 30 cms or so but of course the long 60 cm jigs are expensive. You will find that the material makes a big difference - soft ply will 'squeeze' together but a hardwood like maple will need fine tuning to get a good fit.
I use a Woodrat jig which took me a few weeks to get my head around.

Thanks very much. It's a SIP jig (the link above to it's instructions) only 30cm but sure that's all I need for drawer sides. I might make it as somebodys apprentice yet