Going from 3:45 to 3:30 marathon

Bawnmore_Ent.

Firstly I hope I am posting in correct category.

I never saw myself as a runner, which I still find amusing.

In 2012 after my 39th birthday, I felt I needed a lifestyle change, I got a bike and became a mamil.

Last December (2013) as the weather conditions worsened, I felt it wasn't safe on the bike, so I started running a bit more instead, to get my fix in. As time went on, I found I was getting a better buzz from my runs than I got from my usual bike trips.

I took up adventure racing last year. Since May I have 6 done, including Gaelforce.

Now I want to do Dublin Marathon, and hope my target time is with my capabilities.

Im 41,78kg, 1.85m

I did first marathon in June and finished on target at 3:45, well 20 seconds under. I didn't hit the wall, but legs were bunched when I crossed the line. I used a Run Ireland programme, started it very late, only 6 weeks before event.

I have just signed up for DCM14, and am aiming for 3:30.

I am running on average 40km per week, and recently back on bike, 100-125k/pw

950km so far this year.
358 km last year.

10km 42 min

half marathon 1:42

I also cycle, 1300km so far this year
last year 2800km

I use Runkeeper on my phone and have just started Jeff Gaudette's sub 3:30 plan ( I am starting it 2 weeks late into plan)

I foam roll most days, and do pilates (you tube) 3 times a week.

Presently injury free, only ever had niggles, nothing that stopped me running.

My question is, Is it too big a jump to go from 3:45 to 3:30?

Also whats your thoughts on Jeff Gaudette's sub 3:30 plan.

YFlyer

I was hoping this was some junior 1500m athlete hoping to go from 3:45 to 3:30 as a senior

nerraw1111

Definitely possible.

Your 10km PB gives you a McMillan time of 3.21 for the marathon. Your half marathon time gives you a time of 3.34.

Either way, you're close and 3.30 is what I'd be aiming for in your shoes.

Bawnmore_Ent.

Sorry about that Yflyer.

Thanks nerraw111. Im still a bit intimidated by taking on that time, good challenge though.

rom

more long runs at easy pace, have 10-12 in the build up and you will be flying.

tHE vAGGABOND

The plan you mention seems pretty good, end of the day getting under 3.30 seems to be about quality training and a healthy mix of speed work and long runs; I know of a few people who have gotten under 3.30 off only 3 or 4 runs a week, its not all about junk miles, but getting quality miles in there.

Im also trying to dip under 3.30 this summer [PB 3.38 from Berlin 2012] and Im focusing on quality sessions with purpose [and also not letting myself get injured!]. But Im putting a big focus on my long runs this time, rather than running 5 or 6 times a week, with several of those runs being "for the sake of it" - many of the folks I have seen get faster, who were in the vague region of my level have gotten faster off "more" quality sessions with club, each training run having a purpose [rather than its tuesday Im doing 10k junk miles], and I also observe many of those folks have done "more" 18-22 mile runs over the training plan, rather than less for the sake of staying fresh.

But its all about balance, and everyone is different

Bawnmore_Ent.

Yesterday I did 1.61km @ 5.14 min/ km, 9.66km @ 4.36 and 1.61km at recovery pace.
I felt I was running just below a side stitch threshold, had to back off pace at around 5k, to let it settle. foam rolled after, legs feel good this morning.
11k + strides today.

Bawnmore_Ent.

I am looking into getting a recovery shake or supplement to my regular diet, which is good. Porridge, bananas, no processed food, chicken, fish,brown rice/pasta/bread every week.I eat 5 times a day. Problem is I'm still losing weight. wife and family moaning about it. Any recommendations? The vagabond , I think i saw you used herbalife in the past.
It seems to be an absolute minefield. I would appreciate your thoughts . recommendations recommendations

jebuz

Stay away from herbalife, have you seen the ingredients? it's pure rubbish, a quick google will fill you on it. Stick with what you're eating now, fresh whole foods, healthy fats, protein and wholesome carbs (brown rice, sweet potato) but simply up your intake. Think about it, you're running and losing weight so that means you're burning a lot more energy than you're putting in, so eat more! Get a big fruit shake into you immediately after training and supplement your meals with a generous salad which will keep you feeling full. It looks like a minefield but really it's easy if you keep it simple and a good diet will bring you on leaps and bounds.

tHE vAGGABOND

FWIW : I lost over 6.5 stone with Herbalife products [and have kept all that weight off, over 4 years odd by eating real food, not processed **** and doing lots of exercise], but what would I know :P

Everyone has an opinion on nutrition, most of those people assume/presume they are right the people who disagree with them are totally wrong. I was in a conversation with a qualified doctor at a party on Saturday, and they were saying sugar was totally grand [until you get to insane high levels] and they did not understand that the current "fad" is to consider it evil all of a sudden, how "carbs were evil a few years ago" [their words, not mine]. Now normally I would trust a qualified medical professional in these things, but I happen to disagree in this case. But he is the expert, not me

So do what works for you [within reason, clearly] is always my advice. Read Nutrition 101 sticky in Health and Fitness forum, a great post.

rom

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

FWIW : I lost over 6.5 stone with Herbalife products [and have kept all that weight off, over 4 years odd by eating real food, not processed **** and doing lots of exercise], but what would I know :P

Everyone has an opinion on nutrition, most of those people assume/presume they are right the people who disagree with them are totally wrong. I was in a conversation with a qualified doctor at a party on Saturday, and they were saying sugar was totally grand [until you get to insane high levels] and they did not understand that the current "fad" is to consider it evil all of a sudden, how "carbs were evil a few years ago" [their words, not mine]. Now normally I would trust a qualified medical professional in these things, but I happen to disagree in this case. But he is the expert, not me

So do what works for you [within reason, clearly] is always my advice. Read Nutrition 101 sticky in Health and Fitness forum, a great post.

Matt Fitgerald new book on diet fads would be a good read. Herbalife or similar products are a fad also.

M.J.M.C

OP:

I'm in the same boat as you, roughly.
Did a 3hr 49 last year aiming for a 3hr 30 this year.

That advice of more "quality" runs is what im aiming for. Mind you, you're 41KG? that a typo?

JohnnyCrash

His age is 41 and weight 78kg:D

Bawnmore_Ent.

Thanks all for the advice. M.J.M.C , if I drop to 41kg I will definitely have to stop running😊I decided to stick with proper foods for moment, and see how I go. Also started keeping a food diary on SHEALTH, aiming for 3000 kcal per day.
I was short yesterday evening, so 50g of mixed nuts gave approx 340 kcal, a good part of your diet anyway.

Bawnmore_Ent.

I was out for my Thursday run, last night, sticking to my runkeeper training programme. I thought I was going to die, had to stop halfway through, I was sweating so much.I pulled up with approx 5km to go( Interval splits below).
My legs have been aching all over especially my quads, since I did Crough Patrick last saturday.I ran it, up and down in 01:19:01, after I cycled 76km to it.
Even legs felt weak ,to stick to my plan I ran 19km on the Sunday, totalling 74km for week, short 1km for 75km target.

I was also sea swimming 3 days over the long weekend

I think last week took alot out of me. I have foam rolled, stretched, cold baths,hot Epsom Salt baths,compression socks,leg drains, taken naps in evening when I come from work, before runs, and go to bed early.
Thank God today is a rest day, and im off work.
Have the legs elevated at the moment,while Im writing this.

Is there anything else I can do?

I may have stepped up too quick into this plan, and my body needs to ctach up. Training for last Marathon in June, I topped out at 180Km per month, this plan averages 300km per month.

I plan to do 30 min of light spinning to today, to aid recovery.

I Have 8km easy run on Saturday, and Sunday a 21km Run, breakdown as follows...12km Steady pace is 4:45/km to 5:04/km , 6.44km fast is 4:48/km - 4:55/km 1.61km steady. Fast finish long runs teach to run fast while tired.



INTERVALS PACE CLIMB
3.22km ... 5:11 ... 15
2.41km ... 4:21 ... -11
2:00 ... 5:27 ... 4
2.41km ... 4:22 ... 5
2:00 ... 5:21 ... 1
2.41km ... 4:26 ... -12

Itziger

Bawnmore_Ent. wrote: »

I was out for my Thursday run, last night, sticking to my runkeeper training programme. I thought I was going to die, had to stop halfway through, I was sweating so much.I pulled up with approx 5km to go( Interval splits below).
My legs have been aching all over especially my quads, since I did Crough Patrick last saturday.I ran it, up and down in 01:19:01, after I cycled 76km to it.
Even legs felt weak ,to stick to my plan I ran 19km on the Sunday, totalling 74km for week, short 1km for 75km target.

I was also sea swimming 3 days over the long weekend

I think last week took alot out of me. I have foam rolled, stretched, cold baths,hot Epsom Salt baths,compression socks,leg drains, taken naps in evening when I come from work, before runs, and go to bed early.
Thank God today is a rest day, and im off work.
Have the legs elevated at the moment,while Im writing this.

Is there anything else I can do?

I may have stepped up too quick into this plan, and my body needs to ctach up. Training for last Marathon in June, I topped out at 180Km per month, this plan averages 300km per month.

I plan to do 30 min of light spinning to today, to aid recovery.

I Have 8km easy run on Saturday, and Sunday a 21km Run, breakdown as follows...12km Steady pace is 4:45/km to 5:04/km , 6.44km fast is 4:48/km - 4:55/km 1.61km steady. Fast finish long runs teach to run fast while tired.



INTERVALS PACE CLIMB
3.22km ... 5:11 ... 15
2.41km ... 4:21 ... -11
2:00 ... 5:27 ... 4
2.41km ... 4:22 ... 5
2:00 ... 5:21 ... 1
2.41km ... 4:26 ... -12

BINGO!

Bawnmore_Ent.

Bingo is right Itziger, I had gone at it a bit too hard, too quick.

I had a slow 8k on for Sat, so I said i would do it and see how I felt. Decided to rest the legs and moved Sunday long run to Monday, to give myself a good rest period.

Got up at 5am Monday for my 21k run. bowl of porridge in and a few streches/foam rolling,out to shed, 2 mins on punch bag to get heart rate up, tunes and runkeeper going and i was on the road by 6:16

Workout plan as follows 12.87km@ 4:45/km to 5:04/km , 6.44km@ is 4:48/km - 4:55/km 1.61km@ 4:45/km

I was within tolerances on all sections, average pace 4:58km. Not the most enjoyable run, but i didnt feel as laboured as that awful thurday run.

Gaelforce was on in a few days, I said i better start adjusting the bike for race. New gatorskin and tube on back, cages on and readjusted saddle (decided to go without clips after reading Peter X advice), also did 11km to check saddle height was comfortable.

Tues 10k
Weds 12k
Thursday 4km pace 4:47, short run, felt in good form, ready for Gaelforce.

Left mid afternoon Friday and drove to Killary, Took about 40 mins to get bike dropped off at Delphi, drove straight to Westport , parked up at finishline,handy for leaving after race. That was also my accomodation, as i slept in the van. I never sleep that well before a race anyway, save on B&B, and its a bit of getting in the zone. Headed up to Matt Molloys for a bottle of suds, and in bed by 11.
I had the usual pre race broken night sleep.Up at 5, cold porridge,with not enough honey, luke warm coffee, put on all my kit, banana in hand and off for the 6am bus.

This is my second Gaelforce, so I know the routine.Bus to Glassalaun Beach, wait at holding station,then down to the beach, safety brief, dibbed, and we are off.

After about 4km as we left the road and headed up onto the trail, both my achilles felt sore, which worried me as i had a bit of bother before with them, I reckoned if they were going to get bad i would find out as we got out of kayaks, when they would be cold, thankfully they settled down on the 1st run, and didnt bother me after that.

I got to Kayaks 15mins quicker than i did last year, which i was thrilled with, I knew I was going to have a strong race, because, I felt really good.
I finished in 4hrs 45min,I took almost an hour off my last years time, moved up 350 places.
The wind was somewhere between 30-40km ,brutal when we were cycling into it heading towards Crough Patrick, but lovely for the last section into Crough Patrick, hitting 46kph on the bike on flat road.

Great having the finish line in the heart of Westport, also great having a hot shower and a swim in the Leisureplex.
Within an hour i picked up my bike and was heading into a 3 hour drive home. I was on my own, so had great time to go through the race again in my head, and the people i met along the way, often just brief words.

The day after: overall the body was good.Another black toe, and my right Achilles was very inflamed. I went for a short walk with my daughter to see if i could loosen it out, no good.
Home and iced it, applied Diclec, and took Ibuprofen, did it twice before bed.
Mon - no running, iced and medicine 3 times
Tues =iced and medicine 3 times, did an hour on turbo trainer in morning, went for 15k run in evening, pulled up after 6k, I was in alot of pain with right Achilles,
Weds=no running, iced and medicine 3 times
Thursday=no running, iced and medicine 3 times did an hour on tubo trainer.
Friday= iced and medicine 3 times, went to the track in evening, reckoned the softer surface may be better for Achilles, which has improved a huge amount, but still tender on tip of bone. 14km -35 laps of 400mtr is fairly boring, but at least Im not falling too far behind on training plan. Pace average 4:47 min/km
Sat= Morning Road run 12km pace 4:58 min/km had to stop twice with stomach cramp, glad it was over.
Sun= 8am 22km run on. avg pace 4:46 min/km. took about 4k for leg to feel comfortable, after that I was fine. 10km cycle with kids
Mon= no running, 1km swimming.
Inflammation is almost completely gone, major relief.
I am going to move my long run for this week to Friday morning as I am heading to Electric Picnic for a weekend of madness (hopefully), so there will be no running until at least Tuesday I'd say. There will be alot of Dioralytes consumed during daytime hours,to balance out nocturnal activities.
That will give me 4 days to recover and all going well I'm Heaading to Achill RoaR.

A bit longer than I intended, anyway its done now