To leave 22hours for 6 hours??!!

grainneg

Have a 22 hour contract in a school I love. Will have cid in two more years. But, I live a 1hour and 20 minute commute away and have a young family. Long term I would like to move closer to home. Have been offered a 6 hour contract (own hours) in a rapidly growing new secondary school ten minutes from where I live. Not sure what to do. Any advice/thoughts?

uck51js9zml2yt

I suppose it boils down to being able to afford the cut in wages against an improved family life.

TheDriver

Only you can answer that. However own hours in new growing sec school sounds like a good future....

grainneg

Yes that's it, it's my decision to make but very torn as to what to do! Would love to leave it and hope for a position with better hours to come up next year but judging by this year's vacancies jobs are so few and far between. And if something comes up it might not lead to full hours long term. At least this one is a growing school and should lead to full time post within 3 or 4 years. Only first and second years in school so far. Intake of 150 approx per year.

spurious

There's a lot ot be said for being in on the ground as a school develops, in terms of being involved in decisions and building your department the way you would like it to be.
A great deal would depend on whether you can manage the drop in finances.

Millem

grainneg wrote: »

Have a 22 hour contract in a school I love. Will have cid in two more years. But, I live a 1hour and 20 minute commute away and have a young family. Long term I would like to move closer to home. Have been offered a 6 hour contract (own hours) in a rapidly growing new secondary school ten minutes from where I live. Not sure what to do. Any advice/thoughts?

Grainneg if I was you I would try and find out what is the story (from your union) with these 6 hours. Because it's less than 11 hours does that have impact on them being "yours". Could they in theory be giving to someone else next year or following year? The only reason I ask is that a principal of a new school was offering contracts of 6 hours but said something along the lines of it falls short of the 11 hour requirement???? He made people aware of this before interview stage.

grainneg

okay that's interesting Millem. Will look into it.

implausible

If it's a new and growing school, it sounds like a good opportunity, but you'd have to be fairly sure of those hours being yours into the future.

22 to 6 is a big drop, but you won't have the fuel costs and you may be needing less hours of childminding. There are ways to supplement your income that you could look into - grinds, correcting for the SEC, home tuition hours. Have a look at the tax implications too. If you have a partner who's working, he may benefit from your unused tax credits or if not.

f3232

grainneg wrote: »

Have a 22 hour contract in a school I love. Will have cid in two more years. But, I live a 1hour and 20 minute commute away and have a young family. Long term I would like to move closer to home. Have been offered a 6 hour contract (own hours) in a rapidly growing new secondary school ten minutes from where I live. Not sure what to do. Any advice/thoughts?

Depends on your subject also. If it is one in good demand then likelihood is you will increase your hours.

If I was in your place and I could afford it I would take the risk, in the context of the school increasing its enrollment that is.

Do you now travel 1 hours 20 minutes a day or 2 hours 40 per day?

Millem

grainneg wrote: »

okay that's interesting Millem. Will look into it.

Tbh I don't know much about contracts myself! But I would 100% check it out. I don't know how you did that commute another answer to find out is, is the the 6 hours paid all year round (so 6/22) or is it paid at hourly rate? My biggest fear would that the 6 hours would be given to someone next year! Or by any chance do you teach a specialist subject? In the school I was talking about, the principal took a lot of the staff from his old school. Not. That there's anything wrong with that as I am sure I would do the same
EDIT: If the school is 2 years old is everyone in your dept on full 22 hours? If not, why are they giving you 6 hours and not topping them up towards 22? Is the principal trying to get more staff on less hours so they get more out for the school? My principal does this! By this I mean have 2 x 11 hours= 2 form teachers (instead of one) and double the amount of extra curricular activities that will be unpaid etc

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

Grainneg if I was you I would try and find out what is the story (from your union) with these 6 hours. Because it's less than 11 hours does that have impact on them being "yours". Could they in theory be giving to someone else next year or following year? The only reason I ask is that a principal of a new school was offering contracts of 6 hours but said something along the lines of it falls short of the 11 hour requirement???? He made people aware of this before interview stage.

That's just bollocks. You can have an PRPT contact for any number of hours and a CID for any number of hours.

What may be the case is that if the school is ETB and redeployments were on the cards the hours may be reassigned to a permanent teacher the following year.

On the other point. This school has approximately 300 students. Assuming core subjects are streamed and offered 5 x 40 min periods a week, someone with Irish and Maths as their combination would still only get 20 class periods: 13 hours.

Can't see why you'd expect everyone in a school with only 2 year groups to be on 22 hours.

Millem

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That's just bollocks. You can have an PRPT contact for any number of hours and a CID for any number of hours.

What may be the case is that if the school is ETB and redeployments were on the cards the hours may be reassigned to a permanent teacher the following year.

On the other point. This school has approximately 300 students. Assuming core subjects are streamed and offered 5 x 40 min periods a week, someone with Irish and Maths as their combination would still only get 20 class periods: 13 hours.

Can't see why you'd expect everyone in a school with only 2 year groups to be on 22 hours.

Well I am only basing this on the new school that I know of. The two science and maths teachers are on 22 hours for sept when the schools opens. All I know is that the principal contacted the short listed applicants and mentioned some 11 hour requirement (which I never knew existed so I don't know what he is talking about). It is not an ETB either. In my subject it was advertised at 6 hours but the contract is for 9 as he is topping up with learning support.

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

Well I am only basing this on the new school that I know of. The two science and maths teachers are on 22 hours for sept when the schools opens. All I know is that the principal contacted the short listed applicants and mentioned some 11 hour requirement (which I never knew existed so I don't know what he is talking about). It is not an ETB either. In my subject it was advertised at 6 hours but the contract is for 9 as he is topping up with learning support.

i suspect that he's been told by the powers that be that he has to hire as few teachers as is possible rather than having 20 staff on 5 hours each. While that in itself wouldn't be a problem, it would create a whole load of CIDs down the line. But there will still be a need where specialist subjects are offered to provide lower hours until the subject builds up. Art is one that comes to mind that typically doesn't have an accompanying subject.

Much easier to fill an English and history teachers timetable.

Millem

rainbowtrout wrote: »

i suspect that he's been told by the powers that be that he has to hire as few teachers as is possible rather than having 20 staff on 5 hours each. While that in itself wouldn't be a problem, it would create a whole load of CIDs down the line. But there will still be a need where specialist subjects are offered to provide lower hours until the subject builds up. Art is one that comes to mind that typically doesn't have an accompanying subject.

Much easier to fill an English and history teachers timetable.

Art is really the only one I can think of! The girl who got the 9 hours has a second subject but won't be teaching it . All jobs were advertised as single subjects and then he did some jiggling.

grainneg

f3232 wrote: »

Depends on your subject also. If it is one in good demand then likelihood is you will increase your hours.

If I was in your place and I could afford it I would take the risk, in the context of the school increasing its enrollment that is.

Do you now travel 1 hours 20 minutes a day or 2 hours 40 per day?

Travel 2hours 40 per day so petrol costs are a huge concern!

grainneg

Millem wrote: »

Tbh I don't know much about contracts myself! But I would 100% check it out. I don't know how you did that commute another answer to find out is, is the the 6 hours paid all year round (so 6/22) or is it paid at hourly rate? My biggest fear would that the 6 hours would be given to someone next year! Or by any chance do you teach a specialist subject? In the school I was talking about, the principal took a lot f the staff from his old school. Not. That there's anything wrong with that as I am sure I would do the same
EDIT: If the school is 2 years old is everyone in your dept on full 22 hours? If not, why are they giving you 6 hours and not topping them up towards 22? Is the principal trying to get more staff on less hours so they get more out for the school? My principal does this! By this I mean have 2 x 11 hours= 2 form teachers (instead of one) and double the amount of extra curricular activities that will be unpaid etc

The 6 hours are paid for the summer but not sure what hours the others are on. Teach a core subject and would hope I would keep the hours. They are away in office for next week but will ask them few questions before I decide for definite.

paddybarry

I think if you turn down the 6 hrs you will regret it in the future. You can't put a price on a very short commute, especially if you have a family. The amount of extra quality time you will be able to spend with your love ones will be well worth it long term.

The commute may not be that much of a burden at this moment in time but it will become a right chore eventually.

The fact that you have a core subject should mean that your hours will increase substantially as the other years are rolled out.

All the best.
PB

rainbowtrout

Do you have a second subject grainneg?

Just going on a rough assumption that you get 3 hours a week with first years and 3 hours a week with second years based on this contract and expand it out for a following 3 years, it would give 15 hours to have 1 year group in each year when the school is in full swing.

If that was the worst case scenario and you got nothing from your second subject, would 15 hours close to home be worth the same to you financially as 22 hours with the commute? Obviously there's the benefits of not spending nearly 3 hours on the road everyday, more time at home with your family, not having to be up at the crack of dawn to be on the road.

I'm suspecting that petrol costs you a fair bit each week. A 10 minute commute would mean petrol costs would practically be negligible.

I'd also hope that if you took this contract that you would move onto 22 hours over the next few years and not just 15 or so.

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

EDIT: If the school is 2 years old is everyone in your dept on full 22 hours? If not, why are they giving you 6 hours and not topping them up towards 22? Is the principal trying to get more staff on less hours so they get more out for the school? My principal does this! By this I mean have 2 x 11 hours= 2 form teachers (instead of one) and double the amount of extra curricular activities that will be unpaid etc

I was thinking about this earlier Millem. OP has a core subject, school will only have first and second years in September. It's unlikely they were streamed last year when there were only first years so one teacher probably taught all class groups Irish/English/Maths - whichever core subject it is.

Now that they are second years it's likely that streaming has happened and all classes are blocked against each other so existing teacher can't take all maths (or whatever) classes at the same time. So another teacher is needed. First teacher loses some classes going into second year but gets them replaces with new first years.

Millem

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I was thinking about this earlier Millem. OP has a core subject, school will only have first and second years in September. It's unlikely they were streamed last year when there were only first years so one teacher probably taught all class groups Irish/English/Maths - whichever core subject it is.

Now that they are second years it's likely that streaming has happened and all classes are blocked against each other so existing teacher can't take all maths (or whatever) classes at the same time. So another teacher is needed. First teacher loses some classes going into second year but gets them replaces with new first years.

I suppose in the case of irish, maths, or maybe a foreign language but I doubt the other compulsory subjects are streamed. OP I would just look into the points I outlined maybe the principal I mentioned didn't know what he was talking about. Obviously if all is ok it is a no brainer and go for it

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

I suppose in the case of irish, maths, or maybe a foreign language but I doubt the other compulsory subjects are streamed. OP I would just look into the points I outlined maybe the principal I mentioned didn't know what he was talking about. Obviously if all is ok it is a no brainer and go for it

CSPE is the only other compulsory subject so I'm guessing it's Irish/English/Maths grainneg was referring to when she said core.

Millem

rainbowtrout wrote: »

CSPE is the only other compulsory subject so I'm guessing it's Irish/English/Maths grainneg was referring to when she said core.

Rainbowtrout or she could of meant core subjects to that school? In my own school there is an additional 6 compulsory subjects.

grainneg

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Do you have a second subject grainneg?

Just going on a rough assumption that you get 3 hours a week with first years and 3 hours a week with second years based on this contract and expand it out for a following 3 years, it would give 15 hours to have 1 year group in each year when the school is in full swing.

If that was the worst case scenario and you got nothing from your second subject, would 15 hours close to home be worth the same to you financially as 22 hours with the commute? Obviously there's the benefits of not spending nearly 3 hours on the road everyday, more time at home with your family, not having to be up at the crack of dawn to be on the road.

I'm suspecting that petrol costs you a fair bit each week. A 10 minute commute would mean petrol costs would practically be negligible.

I'd also hope that if you took this contract that you would move onto 22 hours over the next few years and not just 15 or so.

Have been teaching a second core subject where I am now to junior cert but not fully qualified for it. Going to see accountant this week to work out a few things tax wise, sharing tax credits with my spouse etc. Hopefully will make things a bit clearer financially.

smallgarden

If I were you I'd also ask for the 6 hours to be on as minimum days as possible. You can claim dole for part time hours but it's based on days worked rather than hours so the less days you work the more you'd be able to claim

rainbowtrout

smallgarden wrote: »

If I were you I'd also ask for the 6 hours to be on as minimum days as possible. You can claim dole for part time hours but it's based on days worked rather than hours so the less days you work the more you'd be able to claim

If it's a core subject it's going to be spread across the week. Recommendations under numeracy and literacy strategies is that students have English and maths every day.

grainneg

smallgarden wrote: »

If I were you I'd also ask for the 6 hours to be on as minimum days as possible. You can claim dole for part time hours but it's based on days worked rather than hours so the less days you work the more you'd be able to claim

Can you claim for one day if you work 4 days or does it have to be 3 days only?

smallgarden

You have to be unemployed a minimum 4days in the week
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_benefit.html

Millem

grainneg wrote: »

Can you claim for one day if you work 4 days or does it have to be 3 days only?

Do you have any idea how much you get per week? I was thinking about family income supplement but you need to work at least 19 hours per week. If your OH works you could look into it?

clartharlear

Wasting over ten hours a week in a car, spending money, and achieving nothing personal, professional or financial. You'd be mad not to take the 6 hours and look for other opportunities to boost your income, expand your career horizons and most importantly (probably) enjoying quality of life with your family.
I really hope you've already made the decision!

grainneg

Millem wrote: »

Do you have any idea how much you get per week? I was thinking about family income supplement but you need to work at least 19 hours per week. If your OH works you could look into it?

ya will look into that also. Thanks for your suggestions!

grainneg

Took job. Principal practically guaranteed me full hours next year. Thanks guys for all your advice and thoughts. Helped a lot.

rainbowtrout

grainneg wrote: »

Took job. Principal practically guaranteed me full hours next year. Thanks guys for all your advice and thoughts. Helped a lot.

That's great news, good for you and your family in the long run.

evolving_doors

Besta luck, let us know if it was a good move in the long run. I'd say there would be a few like yourself.

Millem

grainneg wrote: »

Took job. Principal practically guaranteed me full hours next year. Thanks guys for all your advice and thoughts. Helped a lot.

That is amazing news....well done
Well done on getting 22 hours and in 3 years you can get your CID!!

grainneg

Millem wrote: »

That is amazing news....well done
Well done on getting 22 hours and in 3 years you can get your CID!!

Not 22 hours this year but next year all going well. So will take the hit now for long term gain. :-)

Millem

grainneg wrote: »

Not 22 hours this year but next year all going well. So will take the hit now for long term gain. :-)

Yes 6 hours this year, 22 hours next year and (hopefully) 22 hours the following year, then you get 22 hour CID year 4?

grainneg

That's it ya :-)

Millem

grainneg wrote: »

That's it ya :-)

Amazing!

grainneg

Quick update, thanks for all your advice. Delighted with my choice so far, got a bit of subbing too and a grind or two to boost income. Getting to spend time with my family is great. Next year i'll hopefully be back to full time, or near enough. Will let ye know how that goes!

Noccy_Mondy

That's brilliant, best of luck going forward. It's always great to hear a good news story amidst the doom and gloom of the current situation!