Ex-treasurer refusing to hand over company books

ectoraige

Hi, I'm hoping for some guidance on how to deal with a situation. The treasurer of a company (limited by guarantee w/o shares) resigned recently, but had previously taken the company books home with him. The other directors had asked for them to be returned a number of times prior to his resignation, but he pretty much ignored them. When he did resign, they again asked for the company books to be returned, but have received no response.

Under Section 2 of the Companies Act 1990 I see there is an obligation to maintain proper books which the company could be deemed to have contravened. Since the ex-treasurer is no longer a director, can he personally be prosecuted by the ODCE should a complaint be made?

Could the books be regarded as stolen property, and if so, would the Gardaí intervene?

Is there any other mechanism that they might be unaware of to deal with this situation. As it is the other directors don't even have the bank account details.

Dangel4x4

Sounds like he has stolen company property?

Have you brought the matter to the attention of your local Gardai?

conorh91

ectoraige wrote: »

Could the books be regarded as stolen property, and if so, would the Gardaí intervene?

I don't see why not.

Failure to notify the Gardaí may itself indicate that the company is not taking reasonable steps to secure compliance with the relevant provision of the Companies Acts (obligation to keep books of account), and a criminal liability may thus arise in respect of the company directors.

I find it hard to understand why the Gardaí wouldn't be approached at the first refusal of the former Treasurer to return the books.

Victor

Has a new treasurer been appointed and has a written request for the accounts been made?

Has a stop been made on the bank account until such time that cheque books, etc. can be accounted for?

ectoraige

conorh91 wrote: »

I don't see why not.

Failure to notify the Gardaí may itself indicate that the company is not taking reasonable steps to secure compliance with the relevant provision of the Companies Acts (obligation to keep books of account), and a criminal liability may thus arise in respect of the company directors.

I find it hard to understand why the Gardaí wouldn't be approached at the first refusal of the former Treasurer to return the books.

It's an not-for-profit educational body, all involved are volunteers so there was likely a reluctance to 'escalate' things by getting the Gardaí involved. I don't personally see another option.

Dangel4x4

One would have to wonder why he doesn't want to return the books.

You don't need much of an imagination to come up with a list of reasons, do you?

Get the Gardai involved asap.

Victor

Dangel4x4 wrote: »

One would have to wonder why he doesn't want to return the books.

You don't need much of an imagination to come up with a list of reasons, do you?

Get the Gardai involved asap.

It may be an inability to deal with the situation as opposed to a criminal matter.

Arthur Beesley

Victor wrote: »

It may be an inability to deal with the situation as opposed to a criminal matter.

Sounds like they went AWOL before the resignation so not sure I'd be giving the benefit of the doubt.

Dangel4x4

Victor wrote: »

It may be an inability to deal with the situation as opposed to a criminal matter.

Possibly. Or there could be some kind of financial impropriety. We don't know, but in a situation like this I would assume the worst until proven wrong.

The guy has no reason to have the accounts in his possession, so it doesn't sound like an innocent mistake...

Santa Cruz

ectoraige wrote: »

It's an not-for-profit educational body, all involved are volunteers so there was likely a reluctance to 'escalate' things by getting the Gardaí involved. I don't personally see another option.

You will have to forget the friendly approach. Prepare a letter requiring the immediate return of the books and hand deliver it to this person. Check with the banks to see if there are any transactions occurring following this persons resignation or whatever.
There have been too many cases of volunteers ripping off charities etc.

Santa Cruz

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Sounds like they went AWOL before the resignation so not sure I'd be giving the benefit of the doubt.

I agree. It's gone beyond any benefit of doubt. The new Directors have responsibilities under the Companies Acts to safeguard company property. If they do nothing they are breaking the law themselves

Lantus

directors have a legal right to view the companies accounts at any time.

Directors are only really resigned once formal notification has been given to the CRO. Its also an offence not to complete a B10 within the allotted time period and return it to the CRO. read info leaflet 18 or look at the cro site for more info.

Was the resignation just an individual action? Was it voted for at an AGM? how did it occur and were proper minutes and records kept of it signed by the directors?

It may be worth contacting the bank to make some changes to the account if you feel at risk. If only this person is the named account holder then that's tricky. Call the bank and ask what you need in terms of company info and ID to get it resolved. Usually you will need a signed letter from the current account holder to do anything at all.

In the future consider having at least two signatories on the account for protection. All the bad stories I have come across always involve just one person having sole control of the account without oversight.

conorh91

Lantus wrote: »

directors have a legal right to view the companies accounts at any time.

Directors are only really resigned once formal notification has been given to the CRO.

A director's resignation is effective when he sends a letter of resignation which is accepted by the other directors. I would agree with the rest of your post of course.

Pat Mustard

Not disagreeing with you: leaflet from the CRO. Notification in case of resignation.

amen

Having had to deal with a similar situation this is no time for pussy footing around. You need to

1: Send a Registered B10 to the CRO with the Treasurers resignation. If the treasures won't sign include the minutes detailing his resignation. Ring the CRO to confirm they are removing him as the Treasurer.
2: Talk to organisations Solicitor. If you don't have one get one. Get the Solicitor to send a registered letter to the Treasurer stating that they have 7 days to return all accounts, cheque books etc. Failure to return will result in legal action.
3: Contact the bank via registered letter stating that the Treasurer has resigned, including copy of B10, letter to CRO, copy of Solicitors letter to Treasurer, Minutes of meeting etc. Tell the bank to remove Treasure from Accounts, change the account address to that education body. Request sight of recent statements/transactions.
4: Request a stop of all cheques.
5: Ensure that in future the signatures of two specified people have to be on each cheque
6: At each regular meeting statements of accounts, balance, future spending etc should be provided. Bank statements should always be available for any director to view

7: You need to have the accounts audited and be prepared to go to the Gardai.

Lantus

^^^^^That's so good I'm printing it off and putting in the file.

Nothing beats real world experience and those who have had to do it. Top post.