Flying Changes

elusiveguy

To keep things interesting, I try to teach my horse random fun things. From tricks on the ground to more advanced flatwork stuff when I think he's strong enough to try.

His left to right change came really easily but he doesn't seem to even understand that right to left is possible.

If I ask for the change, he seems to get a little confused and offers something in response but its something random rather than anything that's progress.

If I let him counter canter, he'll do a simple change himself eventually.

He won't to it over a pole on the ground but I can control which leg he lands on over anything he has to jump but that doesn't seem to help with the change as part of a flat work rountine....

Anyone have any tips to get that lightbulb moment?

Ave Sodalis

Keep asking until he gets it. Don't take away the aid even if he does something random. Since he changes himself, keep going to that and as soon as he does it, remove the aid. So if you're asking by sliding your leg back, keep it back until he changes. Don't get flustered or annoyed with him, just simply ask until he understands. It'll be like leg-random movement- leg still there- another random movement- leg still there- needs to change himself- no leg pressure- oh, flying change=leg pressure gone :P it might take a few times but he will get it, especially if he can do it the other direction

bob1984

What exact aids are you using to ask him?

Have you tried riding a figure of 8 with a simple change to get it into his head where he is going as such - and then progressing on but asking for the change as you approach the turn rather than at X where most people ask it.

elusiveguy

bob1984 wrote: »

What exact aids are you using to ask him?

Have you tried riding a figure of 8 with a simple change to get it into his head where he is going as such - and then progressing on but asking for the change as you approach the turn rather than at X where most people ask it.

Yeah, tried that and also big serpentines in canter with changes. As said I might just need to keep at it.

As for aids, I sort of reinforce the leg hes on by keeping a slight bend, outside leg back and a little more weight on the lead side and then when I want the change a switch sides on it all.

bob1984

I think they are naturally more one side than the other and I do remember when I was teaching my old horse years ago he picked up on side so much quicker - the other rein certainly took longer but it did come

I suppose keep going as you are but also work on some lateral work - the more work you can do to keep him lighter in front and using his hind end will all help him get that bounce to change;

When I was teaching the last one my instructor actually have me do some leg-yield in canter just before the aid for change was applied in order to get him lighter in front - that may help?

elusiveguy

bob1984 wrote: »

When I was teaching the last one my instructor actually have me do some leg-yield in canter just before the aid for change was applied in order to get him lighter in front - that may help?

Cool, will try that

Thanks

elusiveguy

Got one clean R-L change over a pole on Tuesday Its a start

Ah_Yeah

Jumping (pardon the pun) on this thread, as I find my horse as mentioned previously is stronger on one side than another - so a lot of the time she will land on that leg regardless of what rein we're on when we're jumping. I'm working on teaching her flying change, but mostly she'll pick it up in front but not behind. She is naturally on her forehand, so I do a lot of transitions, lateral work and canter work to get her off her forehand, which is showing a big improvement in recent weeks.

Can anyone recommend exercises that might incorporate pole work, which I can move up to a jump over time, that would help her to land on the right leg? And of course, if there's anything I should be doing that would prevent her from landing on her stronger side too!

Ave Sodalis

How long have you had the horse ah yeah? Would it be something in you that stiffens the horse to one side? I think the easiest thing to do is teach the horse flying changes on the flat, then move to over ground poles and then once the aid for a flying change is established, ask when going over the jump. It wouldn't be any harm to have the horse checked for muscle sores which causes him to be reluctant to land on a certain leg. Or is it a case where he lands on the wrong leg no matter the original lead?

Ah_Yeah

sup_dude wrote: »

How long have you had the horse ah yeah? Would it be something in you that stiffens the horse to one side? I think the easiest thing to do is teach the horse flying changes on the flat, then move to over ground poles and then once the aid for a flying change is established, ask when going over the jump. It wouldn't be any harm to have the horse checked for muscle sores which causes him to be reluctant to land on a certain leg. Or is it a case where he lands on the wrong leg no matter the original lead?

I've had her for for about 3 months now - she is 9 and was in the field for 8 weeks before I collected her. No reason other than her owner didn't have time for her.

She's stiff on her left side, and stronger to the point of being hollow on her right side
side. I've had her checked and it's just a case of needing lots of "gym" work to strengthen her left side - however, I will admit I have a tendency to collapse or tip on my right side, which may be affecting how she picks up canter or lands after a jump. It's something I'm working on with my instructor. It might be worth noting that when I got her she had a very long tooth which was cutting into the left side of her mouth, which I had removed - this went a long way to explaining her stiffness on the left.

Yes, she always lands with her left leg leading, which is strange to me, given left rein is her stiff side. She always picks it up correctly when I ask from trot when I'm riding. It could be me?

The issue I face is when I ask for flying change on the flat, she picks it up fine in front, but struggles with her hind.

Any exercises or tips you can give would be so appreciated - thanks in advance!

Ave Sodalis

Ah_Yeah wrote: »

I've had her for for about 3 months now - she is 9 and was in the field for 8 weeks before I collected her. No reason other than her owner didn't have time for her.

She's stiff on her left side, and stronger to the point of being hollow on her right side
side. I've had her checked and it's just a case of needing lots of "gym" work to strengthen her left side - however, I will admit I have a tendency to collapse or tip on my right side, which may be affecting how she picks up canter or lands after a jump. It's something I'm working on with my instructor. It might be worth noting that when I got her she had a very long tooth which was cutting into the left side of her mouth, which I had removed - this went a long way to explaining her stiffness on the left.

Yes, she always lands with her left leg leading, which is strange to me, given left rein is her stiff side. She always picks it up correctly when I ask from trot when I'm riding. It could be me?

The issue I face is when I ask for flying change on the flat, she picks it up fine in front, but struggles with her hind.

Any exercises or tips you can give would be so appreciated - thanks in advance!

Ouchy!!

Well, as you already said, she definitely needs more strengthening on her bad side before you try anything further. It could just be a case of her not being capable of picking up the proper leg after a jump. Landing on the other leg might just be too uncomfortable. I find lungeing, hill work and (if possible) beach work great for strengthening.
Then when she is strengthened enough, take it very slowly. I mean if she picks up the right leg when riding on flat from trot, then she shouldn't be too bad. In terms of flying changes on the flat, how is she with direct transitions? You could try simple changes where you change rein in canter, but come back to walk over X. Over a period of time, just make them shorter and shorter. What happens when you keep cantering her when she's disjointed?
I think getting it on the flat would be a massive help for jumps. When you are jumping her though, it may be worth just making it uncomfortable for her to land on the wrong leg so maybe keeping her head flexed slightly to one side, keeping your outside leg back, carrying the stick against her shoulder etc, and then of course, giving her a break and praise when she does it right

elusiveguy

Have you tried poles or jumps on a circle?

If you jump the same jump, say 10 times, and always go right will she always land wrong?

Also, in this:

It looks(I could be totally wrong) like you're a little left but then again you are probably going left afterwards, is there any chance you always lean left?

It

Ah_Yeah

sup_dude wrote: »

Ouchy!!

Well, as you already said, she definitely needs more strengthening on her bad side before you try anything further. It could just be a case of her not being capable of picking up the proper leg after a jump. Landing on the other leg might just be too uncomfortable. I find lungeing, hill work and (if possible) beach work great for strengthening.
Then when she is strengthened enough, take it very slowly. I mean if she picks up the right leg when riding on flat from trot, then she shouldn't be too bad. In terms of flying changes on the flat, how is she with direct transitions? You could try simple changes where you change rein in canter, but come back to walk over X. Over a period of time, just make them shorter and shorter. What happens when you keep cantering her when she's disjointed?
I think getting it on the flat would be a massive help for jumps. When you are jumping her though, it may be worth just making it uncomfortable for her to land on the wrong leg so maybe keeping her head flexed slightly to one side, keeping your outside leg back, carrying the stick against her shoulder etc, and then of course, giving her a break and praise when she does it right

Thanks for the tips - I did a figure of 8 with her the other day and put a pole at X, trotting before the pole and picking up canter just after. I'm hoping to keep doing that exercise once a week and introducing a cavalletti, then a jump. She is strengthening slowly but surely so it's just a case of patience, patience and more patience. I always want everything immediately!

elusiveguy wrote: »

Have you tried poles or jumps on a circle?

If you jump the same jump, say 10 times, and always go right will she always land wrong?

Also, in this:

It looks(I could be totally wrong) like you're a little left but then again you are probably going left afterwards, is there any chance you always lean left?

It

I haven't tried that yet, I can try to see! Yes, we were going left, and sometimes I do exaggerate my position when I'm turning (which contributes to knocking, terrible habit!), so I will have to be very conscious of this and try to ride straighter.

I will be hyper sensitive to my position when I ride over the next couple of days to see if it's me.

Thanks!

elusiveguy

Got two right to lefts without a pole last night!!!

silverfox88

Couple of general pointers/exercises on this:

Canter walk canter transitions on the centre line - asking for a different strike off lead each time.
So halt, walk 2 steps, right canter lead; 2 strides, canter to walk; walk 2 steps, left canter lead, and so on; try to get about 4 strike-offs down the centre line; teaches the horse not to lean on the wall and associate a certain rein with a certain lead.

Once this is established, canter across your diagonal and do the canter walk canter transition again the same way. Build this up so that as you cross the diagonal line, give your outside rein aid for walk, open your opposite hand and apply the leg aid for the new strike-off lead. Essentially the same aids for the transitions, but without the walk step in between. You could use a pole here too to make it more obvious what you want and provide a bit of lift for the front end as you as for the change.

NB to keep the horse OFF the forehand - you see so many people doing "flying changes" where the horse either just changes in front and then changes the hind leg a few strides later or else just doesn't change at all.

In canter the leading leg is the inside hind - and so it should be the same with the flying change - the horse should make the change from behind first, or at the same time as the front leg - not front leg first.