Wrong date of birth on criminal convictions.

somuj

If the wrong date of birth is on my previous convictions are they actually on my record or on some guy with the same name who does not exist.

NoQuarter

Did you commit them?

godtabh

NoQuarter wrote: »

Did you commit them?

That's not the question being asked.

Speak to the solicitor who dealt with the case for ypu

somuj

Yes I commited them. Couple of public intoxication and few others. Was years ago. Found the old summons for them and notice the wrong date of birth on them all.

NoQuarter

godtabh wrote: »

That's not the question being asked.

Speak to the solicitor who dealt with the case for ypu

huh?

somuj wrote: »

Yes I commited them. Couple of public intoxication and few others. Was years ago. Found the old summons for them and notice the wrong date of birth on them all.

Well then unsurprisingly yes, they are on your record.

somuj

no holiday to America for me then.

Kamik

Quite a good question!
They are recorded against you, and you can contest them as wrong,
BUT! doing so may render you liable to a further prosecution, one of supplying false information.

On the other hand, if they are referred to in any future case as previous offences, then you can legally deny the right to have then considered as your offences.

somuj

I never gave my date of birth to them. Just my name address and age. Don't know how they ended up as wrong date of birth. My licence used to have wrong date of birth on it too and they always refused to change it till I asked to speak to a supervisor.

Kamik

You can not be summoned to answer charges without a date of birth.
The PULSE computer reads as Name,DOB,Address,convictions.

somuj

I meant to say charge sheets in original post. Live in a small town so Gardai knew who I was when they arrested me each time.

Am wondering if they put my DOB wrong in the first time I was bold. The wrong DOB would ave been on the pulse system for all further charges after that.

Kamik

If you receive a charge sheet with a DOB on that is not your true DOB, you should plead not guilty because you are not the person referred to by birth date on the summons. The judge does not have the right to correct a charge sheet error, only director of prosecutions has that privilege.

NoQuarter

Kamik wrote: »

If you receive a charge sheet with a DOB on that is not your true DOB, you should plead not guilty because you are not the person referred to by birth date on the summons. The judge does not have the right to correct a charge sheet error, only director of prosecutions has that privilege.

This is completely wrong. Judges can correct administrative errors there and then. This is probably the most dangerous advice I've heard given on this forum to date.

Kamik

NO district court judge has the right to amend any of the HEADERS on a charge sheet.
He may alter or amend the actual charge or wording under the same act as charged.

NoQuarter

They can amend clerical errors in name and address. I would assume they can amend DOB too. I would certainly not plead not guilty (thereby losing any benefit if convicted) because my DOB was wrong!

Pat Mustard

Order 12, District Court Rules:

[Amendments]
2. A Judge may amend any summons, civil summons, notice or counterclaim by adding or striking out parties or by amending such other defects and errors in any such document as may be necessary for the purpose of determining the real question at issue between the parties. Such amendments may be made in such manner as the Judge directs and upon such terms as the Judge thinks fit. If in the opinion of the Judge, the amendment is one which might prejudice any party to the proceedings in the merits of that party's case, he or she may make the amendment and, if necessary, adjourn the case or may refuse to make any such amendment and, if necessary, dismiss the proceedings.

Kamik

i suppose next you will be telling me they can change the date of offence too!
OK, you seem to know better.

Kamik

The mustard, posted a reference at the same time as my post.
His reference points toward "purpose of determining the real question at issue between the parties"
But this thread has two major points.
1. we are determining an Identification and not the question at issue (Offence)
2. our issue here for the OP is convictions against him, not charges outstanding.

Pat Mustard

Kamik wrote: »

If you receive a charge sheet with a DOB on that is not your true DOB, you should plead not guilty because you are not the person referred to by birth date on the summons. The judge does not have the right to correct a charge sheet error, only director of prosecutions has that privilege.

Think again.

Kamik

The Mustard wrote: »

Think again.

Which comes first in any offence?
Identification of the accused OR the offence!

My SC would be begging for his big day out if "Order 12" was used to change my identification on a charge sheet, the compensation would be turning septic!

Have you any idea how many cases of wrong identity on charge sheets are dealt with by the Circuit Court on a weekly basis?

Pat Mustard

If you are attempting to make a point, why don't you make it and back it up by reference to the appropriate law.

Kamik

My point is made long ago!
Would you like to make another reference at attempting to prove me wrong?

Pat Mustard

Kamik wrote: »

Would you like to make another reference at attempting to prove me wrong?

No point in boiling your cabbage twice.

hullaballoo

Kamik wrote: »

If you receive a charge sheet with a DOB on that is not your true DOB, you should plead not guilty because you are not the person referred to by birth date on the summons. The judge does not have the right to correct a charge sheet error, only director of prosecutions has that privilege.

Kamik wrote: »

NO district court judge has the right to amend any of the HEADERS on a charge sheet.
He may alter or amend the actual charge or wording under the same act as charged.

Kamik wrote: »

i suppose next you will be telling me they can change the date of offence too!
OK, you seem to know better.

Kamik wrote: »

The mustard, posted a reference at the same time as my post.
His reference points toward "purpose of determining the real question at issue between the parties"
But this thread has two major points.
1. we are determining an Identification and not the question at issue (Offence)
2. our issue here for the OP is convictions against him, not charges outstanding.

Kamik wrote: »

Which comes first in any offence?
Identification of the accused OR the offence!

My SC would be begging for his big day out if "Order 12" was used to change my identification on a charge sheet, the compensation would be turning septic!

Have you any idea how many cases of wrong identity on charge sheets are dealt with by the Circuit Court on a weekly basis?

Kamik wrote: »

My point is made long ago!
Would you like to make another reference at attempting to prove me wrong?

Moderator: Read the forum charter.

This manner of posting is unacceptable under the rules contained therein. You will note in particular the rules relating to the giving of legal advice and civility towards other posters. This is the only warning that will be given.

conorh91

When it first comes before the District Court, the charge sheet is an internal Garda document. It is not a court document. It is not a complaint. It does not confer jurisdiction in the case.

The only time the District Court cannot amend the charge sheet is where the defect is so substantial as to have prejudiced the Accused's ability to defend himself or where the Accused has been misled. For example, to substitute an entirely different charge to the one specified on the sheet, and basically springing it on the Accused then and there.

Arthur Beesley

Kamik wrote: »

i suppose next you will be telling me they can change the date of offence too!
OK, you seem to know better.

You a freeman?

Beano

Kamik wrote: »

You can not be summoned to answer charges without a date of birth.
The PULSE computer reads as Name,DOB,Address,convictions.

Its a bit late to worry about been summonsed. They have already been convicted.

V.W.L 11

I had a similar issue myself,but with my forename only on the summons it read "Jim" instead of "James" (neither are my real name,just an example) but the convictions still showed up,are the convictions recent or over 7 years OP???The law changed a bit back in march this year,whether it counts towards a U.S visa I do not know

NoQuarter

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

I had a similar issue myself,but with my forename only on the summons it read "Jim" instead of "James" (neither are my real name,just an example) but the convictions still showed up,are the convictions recent or over 7 years OP???The law changed a bit back in march this year,whether it counts towards a U.S visa I do not know

I don't think the law has changed yet but the Gardaí administrative practices have changed. That's my understanding.

V.W.L 11

NoQuarter wrote: »

I don't think the law has changed yet but the Gardaí administrative practices have changed. That's my understanding.

that's my understanding also,convictions over 7 years will not be disclosed AFAIK,but offences against the person will always be declared, (i.e assault)

somuj

Last conviction for public intoxication was 6 years ago. Rest are nearly 10 years and all drink related and all with the wrong date of birth on the charge sheet.

NoQuarter

somuj wrote: »

Last conviction for public intoxication was 6 years ago. Rest are nearly 10 years and all drink related and all with the wrong date of birth on the charge sheet.

I wouldn't worry about the wrong DOB. People don't get off convictions because the clerk made a typo. It's not that easy and shouldn't be.

Have a look for the post about the spent convictions, it was posted less than a month ago I think. That has the info on the new garda practices, you might be in luck.