No Leap Tag Off Bray Air Show

wicklowwonder

Quick question, rarely use the DART but I went to the Bray Airshow yesterday from Tara St. Tagged on as normal with Leap took €4.60 or whatever from my LEAP card however when we got to Bray the gates where all open and "Out of Order" so you couldn't tag off. There was huge crowds as expected.

So how much should a trip be on Leap from Tara to Bray and how much did Leap/DART make in extra fares yesterday?

Arthur Beesley

Were they working on the way home.

wicklowwonder

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Were they working on the way home.

I don't know, I didn't get the DART back into Dublin.

Arthur Beesley

Roughly EUR 3.

The cynic in me wonders if the gates were working when the attendees were going home. Nice little earner for them either way.

wicklowwonder

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Roughly EUR 3.

The cynic in me wonders if the gates were working when the attendees were going home. Nice little earner for them either way.

Wouldn't be surprised. Majority of people who have arrived together between 2 and 3.30 but the going back time would have spread from 5.30, when people started getting restless, right through to the last DART as people without kids enjoyed the beer gardens etc around Bray. Handy earner. 88,0000 reported to be in attendance. I wonder how many travelled on the DART? 20/30k maybe? €1.60 extra off each person is a nice days work.

bikeman1

Contact leap on the number on the card - 1850 824 824. Explain that when you got to Bray that you couldn't tag off because of the inoperable gates and they will refund the difference back to your card.

I have had a couple of similar situations and they have done it no problem.

L1011

Could easily be more than €1.60 in some cases - whenever I've gone to it I've got on in Shankill - that's €1.70 so €2.90 below the max.

TheBandicoot

I have a form email I send regularly when I can't tag off, always works for me. You get the refund next time you touch on.

to: Leap Card Customer Care <customer.care@leapcard.ie>
subject: Unable to tag off

Hi,

[Neither] of the validators at <station> at about <time> on the <date> were working, and the station building was closed, so I was unable to tag off on a journey I took with Irish Rail from <departure station>. My Leap card number is <number>. I would like a reimbursement please, as I was unable to tag off and was charged the maximum fare through no fault of my own.

Thank you,

<name>

wicklowwonder

Thanks guys.

foggy_lad

bikeman1 wrote: »

Contact leap on the number on the card - 1850 824 824. Explain that when you got to Bray that you couldn't tag off because of the inoperable gates and they will refund the difference back to your card.

I have had a couple of similar situations and they have done it no problem.

Will they be looking into a way to refund all those who were overcharged because of the breakdown of the Irish Rail equipment or will they only refund those who go looking for a refund? Surely they could easily arrange a refund for all those affected?

TheBandicoot

In my experience you have to ask for it to get it.

Irish Rail really do need to get their act together on the leap validators, at Clonsilla at least you have a 2/5 chance generally that both of them will be out of service(they display this "Try Again" message constantly, think they get stuck after a bad read).

wicklowwonder

foggy_lad wrote: »

Will they be looking into a way to refund all those who were overcharged because of the breakdown of the Irish Rail equipment or will they only refund those who go looking for a refund? Surely they could easily arrange a refund for all those affected?

The equipment wasn't broken down I reckon, they had the gates open due to the crowds I would imagine. "our of order" was on the display but all gates where open and there was a massive crowd.

L1011

They're able to leave gates open with working validators - Navan Road Parkway on the 9 out of 10 days its not manned for instance; also Lansdowne Road usually has at least one validator working on match nights despite the gates being open.

bikeman1

foggy_lad wrote: »

Will they be looking into a way to refund all those who were overcharged because of the breakdown of the Irish Rail equipment or will they only refund those who go looking for a refund? Surely they could easily arrange a refund for all those affected?

So are you saying that if Leap were to look at all the people who tagged on on Sunday and didn't tag off, that they should refund them all back on the assumption that they all went to Bray and exited at the exit on the sea side, where it seems the validators were not working?

I could have boarded at Shankill and travelled to Balbriggan and not tagged off. Should I be refunded?

Unfortunately everyone has to request it, because the multitude of journies could have been done. It is annoying, but the two times it happened to me, the leap customer service was very good.

I have also had the opposite where I could not tag on (all machines down) and travelled for free!

ArmaniJeanss

bikeman1 wrote: »

So are you saying that if Leap were to look at all the people who tagged on on Sunday and didn't tag off, that they should refund them all back on the assumption that they all went to Bray and exited at the exit on the sea side, where it seems the validators were not working?

I could have boarded at Shankill and travelled to Balbriggan and not tagged off. Should I be refunded?

Unfortunately everyone has to request it, because the multitude of journies could have been done. It is annoying, but the two times it happened to me, the leap customer service was very good.

I have also had the opposite where I could not tag on (all machines down) and travelled for free!

I think foggys idea is reasonable.
Maybe they should look at it mathematically - if there are normally X TagOn/FailTagOff combinations on a Sunday, and yesterday there was 5X or 20X or 50X such incidents, then it would be logical to presume that there was an exceptional circumstance. And the explanation for that is at Bray.

So instead of dealing with individual complainants (which must be a timecost overhead) just set everyone to have been exited at Bray.
Probably quicker and also morally correct.

wicklowwonder

bikeman1 wrote: »

So are you saying that if Leap were to look at all the people who tagged on on Sunday and didn't tag off, that they should refund them all back on the assumption that they all went to Bray and exited at the exit on the sea side, where it seems the validators were not working?

It was the main exit/entrance on the town side of the station I exited through which all validators "out of order".

Hilly Bill

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Quick question, rarely use the DART but I went to the Bray Airshow yesterday from Tara St. Tagged on as normal with Leap took €4.60 or whatever from my LEAP card however when we got to Bray the gates where all open and "Out of Order" so you couldn't tag off. There was huge crowds as expected.

So how much should a trip be on Leap from Tara to Bray and how much did Leap/DART make in extra fares yesterday?

They wouldnt have made any in extra fares. Chances are they would have lost a good bit. Gates open for crowd control etc, people without tickets or didnt tag on not getting checked. There is a pole to tag on and off at the exit gates on platforms if you cant tag off at the barriers. Ive seen some wave the card in front of the machine and then give out that its not working instead of just holding it steady until it reads. In the event of not being able to tag on and off you simply ring the number on the card and tell them the location and they will put it right for you. The Leap fare is €2:80.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Will they be looking into a way to refund all those who were overcharged because of the breakdown of the Irish Rail equipment or will they only refund those who go looking for a refund? Surely they could easily arrange a refund for all those affected?

How?

foggy_lad

wicklowwonder wrote: »

The equipment wasn't broken down I reckon, they had the gates open due to the crowds I would imagine. "our of order" was on the display but all gates where open and there was a massive crowd.

So they deliberately prevented people from tagging off! In some situations that would be considered criminal.

Dravokivich

foggy_lad wrote: »

So they deliberately prevented people from tagging off! In some situations that would be considered criminal.

Or the machines just couldn't handle the volume. I've seen it plenty in smaller stations and it has been known to cause issues on the buses.

Boulevardier

Since most Darts terminate at Bray you will probably only be charged the fare to Bray.

I am told that last year at the end of the show, the station had to close its doors for a while because it was too full.

BTW, does anyone agree with me that the air-show started and finished too late?

wicklowwonder

Boulevardier wrote: »

BTW, does anyone agree with me that the air-show started and finished too late?

Big time, my first year in attendance, expected it to be 2 hours long so 5.30 finish. A lot of people started leaving about 5.45/6. If it had of started at 2 or even 3 I don't think people would have become as restless as quick. Also started getting a little chilly. A lot kids started crying about 5.30 too. Was like some sort of dawn chorus around me at one stage.

Dravokivich

Boulevardier wrote: »

Since most Darts terminate at Bray you will probably only be charged the fare to Bray.

I am told that last year at the end of the show, the station had to close its doors for a while because it was too full.

BTW, does anyone agree with me that the air-show started and finished too late?

The cost of tagging on is always 4.60. It doesn't adjust depending on which station you are on. It only adjusts when you get close to fare caps.

Polar101

I was able to tag off in Bray at around 3:20pm so some validators were working, at least at that time - so not everyone travelling to Bray paid the maximum fare.

wicklowwonder

Polar101 wrote: »

I was able to tag off in Bray at around 3:20pm so some validators were working, at least at that time - so not everyone travelling to Bray paid the maximum fare.

Interesting, I actually made sure to check them all and definitely all read "Out of Order" I arrived there between 2pm and 2.20pm or so I reckon. There was a massive crowd exiting the station together. Every gate they could open was open as well.

Hilly Bill

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Interesting, I actually made sure to check them all and definitely all read "Out of Order" I arrived there between 2pm and 2.20pm or so I reckon. There was a massive crowd exiting the station together. Every gate they could open was open as well.

There is your answer as to why the barriers where open. Nothing to do with trying to get a extra few quid.

wicklowwonder

Hilly Bill wrote: »

There is your answer as to why the barriers where open. Nothing to do with trying to get a extra few quid.

I am sure it is the answer, but it is handy for Irish Rail they also made a handy extra few quid. Surely the barriers could be open but still accept Leap Card log off as well?

Hilly Bill

wicklowwonder wrote: »

I am sure it is the answer, but it is handy for Irish Rail they also made a handy extra few quid. Surely the barriers could be open but still accept Leap Card log off as well?

There are machines available on the platform if you wish to tag off plus others have said they were able to tag off. They would have lost more having the barriers open.

dowlingm

There's an argument for the notion that IE or Leap should in fact refund overcharges even if it means some people are excessively refunded, depending on responsibility for why the system was down. What incentive do they have to make the system more resilient if travellers bear the costs of technical failures?

If the validates were turned off to avoid crowding, then a notice explaining who to call to get it fixed should be displayed.

Infini

Validators dont need to be turned off, when it comes to matches and event the gates will be unlocked of course to prevent a crush building up at them obviously but not out of order. Something sounds odd here. Was always the ones on the northbound platform too.

devnull

Something is very odd about disabling all of the validators, they should have been put in tag on/off mode with the gates open like they are in every station over Dublin when they are unstaffed.

JuliusCaesar

Wasn't there this year, but last year the gates were all open (no tagging) on the return journey.

I assumed this was to prevent a buildup of a crush in the crowd trying to get into the rail station.

Twas all grand, and a good way of dealing with such massive crowds.