BTEA rate affected by working for the summer??

Greenacres

Hi, I am finding it impossible to get an answer from my local social welfare office on this....
A run down of my situation:
I qualified for BTEA for my first year of a level 8 degree starting Sept 2013. I had been on a JB/JA payment for preceding year and also had received a statutory redundancy payment in 2012, which validated my application. I was awarded a BTEA payment for me, a qualified dependent and 3 children.
I finished my first year & passed my exams. I went to sign for JA when college finished for summer and spoke to the SW staff member dealing with my JA claim about a job I had recently interviewed for. I was told sign off for the summer and returning for my second year of my degree my BTEA payment would be reinstated upon submitting a letter from my college with required info. I asked again to be sure that this was all I needed to do. I had explained that it was full time for the summer and that I would be working for part time during college time. I specifically asked about my rate for September and was assured that they did not need to know nor cared what I was doing work wise as long as it was part time and my rate was guaranteed to be the same. I also explained that I would be working for 39 hours a week for the summer holidays earning the same as my JA payment so was weighing up what was best based on what my rate would be in Sept. I am on college placement in September for 30 hours a week plus working 20 hours part time...so a 50 hour week plus 3 children is a big commitment and one I was giving full consideration to. With a second set of reassurances from the staff member that took my details when I had a job offer and a 3rd when I spoke to a BTEA person... I was happy to take the job and work for the summer. I am currently working a month in hand so it has all been very stressful financially....
FF to a phone call last week from SW to inform me that they were closing my claim (ok I thought it was closed because I signed off) as I would be working for more than 8 weeks, and that I would have to reapply for BTEA from scratch in September and have my income from my summer work assessed and my part time work for the coming year. Despite my questions regarding all previous info I was given, I was not given any answers, just told that it is new directives applicable to everyone (if you can call Budget 2013 new) and wasn't willing to give me any guidance for budgeting purposes, I was just told to refer to welfare.ie.
I am now at the point where I am attempting to calculate what JA payment I would qualify for as this seems to be what I am going to be on come September, but really am utterly miffed at the total lack of guidance from my local office. I seem to fall between 2 stools, I am not protected by the 'pre Jan 2013 entrant' not affected but yet I don't see how I am a new applicant operating under new guidelines. If I hadn't asked all the questions I did I guess I wouldn't feel so aggrieved.

I should have just stayed on JA for the summer and protected my rate and sod the system. There are many points in the operational guideline for BTEA that say you can work part time without affecting your payment.... But they have changed how the rate is calculated. It doesn't help that it is a totally local decision so I am at the mercy of the people that made the point of ringing me to say that my claim was being closed and still managed to send me a letter the following week to inform me of my next signing day.... **sigh**

Apologies for long post, but if anyone can help me out with any guidance it would be much appreciated, I am working in my new job with other people on BTEA awarded from other districts and they have not had the same communication on the matter as I have had. Which only adds to my confusion.

Rorster_123

If working part time over the Summer BTEA rate is calculated at an average of the last 8 weeks Social Welfare payments. New rules I am afraid.

Means are not assessed if you take up part time employment after commencing BTEA if that helps.

Kerry3333

This paragraph is taken from the Operational Guidelines on Back to Education Allowance:

BTEA participants who are progressing to the next year of their course or who are progressing from second level to third level approved undergraduate qualifications will have their BTEA reinstated from the commencement of the new academic year irrespective of whether they were in receipt of an unemployment payment for the summer period.

This says that your BTEA should be paid again from September even if you don't qualify for Jobseekers during the summer. If you were working during the summer (which you are allowed to do), you could return to BTEA.

Greenacres

Thanks Kerry3333, i have read and reread the operational guidelines and cannot find anything that supports what I was told on the phone call. I have drafted a letter with the relevant points and will see how I get on.

Basically I am allowed to work for the summer as I have already qualified for BTEA, and the only mention of a revised decision would be if my means changed during the academic year apart from part time work.

If there is another set of directives that is at odds with this, it isn't on welfare.ie so for anything I am told I will have to insist on the supporting guidelines.

Rorster_123 I am working full time for the summer which is allowed under the guidelines as I have already already qualified for BTEA based on summer 2013's JA payments. I am really at a loss to find something that allows a revised decision at this point of my BTEA.

Annasopra

Have you spoken to BTEA office in Carrick On Shannon? I've always found them very helpful on the phone.
Tel:(071) 967 2616
Locall:1890 927 999

Greenacres

No, I haven't Joeytheparrot, I'll give them a call in the morning.
Thanks for that.

Greenacres

Just to update.... After contacting the dept in Leitrim and speaking to a lovely lady there, she basically couldn't answer my questions. She referred it to a supervisor. A couple of weeks later I was sent a paragraph which when I questioned it and how it fitted into the operational guidelines they then also couldn't answer my questions.
The paragraph is nowhere to be found on welfare.ie so I am wondering was it made up to fit my situation. But it still contradicts several of core points of the guidelines. And it actually contradicts itself within the paragraph. I am another 2 weeks waiting for a response. Actually more, really don't know where to go from here with this.

eastbono

I just had a quick look through your long long post. First of all you do not have to reapply for BTEA you were approved for BTEA last year... year 1 of a four year course... the whole course was approved. Your approval still stands. I am going to have to have a second look at your means situation and get back to you.

eastbono

It may be Tues before I get back to you as I need to look at circulars and consult with colleagues. I personally think that the means from summer employment will be assessed and the fact that you will still be in continuous employment with the same employer then these part time means will also be assessed. My understanding is.... if you found part time employment during the course e.g Sept to May then this will not be assessed. I will try and get clarification but it will be hard if Carrick on Shannon cant do it.

Greenacres

Thanks Eastbono, what you are saying there is basically what I am being told. But the operational guidelines do not support this.

It's crazy really, the message is don't work for the summer. just keep collecting your SW payment. then do what you like during the academic year.

I could argue with what you said above with several points from the operational guidelines. When you have had a chance to look over it let me know, I would love the guidance.

I will send you the paragraph I was sent privately.

flashback humour

Please keep us updated on this Greenacres. I'm hoping to work next summer after first year but I'll have to think carefully about it with more and more of these stories popping up.

flashback humour

Greenacres wrote: »

Hi, I am finding it impossible to get an answer from my local social welfare office on this....
A run down of my situation:
I qualified for BTEA for my first year of a level 8 degree starting Sept 2013. I had been on a JB/JA payment for preceding year and also had received a statutory redundancy payment in 2012, which validated my application. I was awarded a BTEA payment for me, a qualified dependent and 3 children.
I finished my first year & passed my exams. I went to sign for JA when college finished for summer and spoke to the SW staff member dealing with my JA claim about a job I had recently interviewed for. I was told sign off for the summer and returning for my second year of my degree my BTEA payment would be reinstated upon submitting a letter from my college with required info. I asked again to be sure that this was all I needed to do. I had explained that it was full time for the summer and that I would be working for part time during college time. I specifically asked about my rate for September and was assured that they did not need to know nor cared what I was doing work wise as long as it was part time and my rate was guaranteed to be the same. I also explained that I would be working for 39 hours a week for the summer holidays earning the same as my JA payment so was weighing up what was best based on what my rate would be in Sept. I am on college placement in September for 30 hours a week plus working 20 hours part time...so a 50 hour week plus 3 children is a big commitment and one I was giving full consideration to. With a second set of reassurances from the staff member that took my details when I had a job offer and a 3rd when I spoke to a BTEA person... I was happy to take the job and work for the summer. I am currently working a month in hand so it has all been very stressful financially....
FF to a phone call last week from SW to inform me that they were closing my claim (ok I thought it was closed because I signed off) as I would be working for more than 8 weeks, and that I would have to reapply for BTEA from scratch in September and have my income from my summer work assessed and my part time work for the coming year.

Any update on this Greenacres?

Greenacres

I have had my part time work assessed as means. I have received my decision on a Jobseekers allowance form. No mention of BTEA. I was told unless I can produce a P45 after the summer that is how it is. If I could produce a P45 then I could proceed to work part time and not have this income assessed. I am still very upset about the whole thing.

flashback humour

Greenacres wrote: »

I have had my part time work assessed as means. I have received my decision on a Jobseekers allowance form. No mention of BTEA. I was told unless I can produce a P45 after the summer that is how it is. If I could produce a P45 then I could proceed to work part time and not have this income assessed. I am still very upset about the whole thing.

That is awful for you, did the means testing of your part time work affect your rate terribly?

Just so I'm understanding this correctly, its fine to work during the summer once you give up the job before going back on BTEA? And then once back on BTEA, you can go right ahead and find yourself a new part time job (not that that's easy) and continue on as always? Ridiculous!

Greenacres

flashback humour wrote: »

That is awful for you, did the means testing of your part time work affect your rate terribly?

Just so I'm understanding this correctly, its fine to work during the summer once you give up the job before going back on BTEA? And then once back on BTEA, you can go right ahead and find yourself a new part time job (not that that's easy) and continue on as always? Ridiculous!

That is exactly it!

Yes, I have had 90 euro taken from my 400 euro payment ( I have spouse and 3 children). I am working hard part time on top of college and really failing to see the point. I am working every Saturday. I won't keep it up, its not worth it. Oh well. summer off for me next summer, won't be so stupid to work like that again.

Greenacres

what is really annoying is I didn't get a BTEA letter to confirm my rate. I got a jobseekers allowance decision form. i am not a jobseeker.

eastbono

You are still on jobseekers allowance but with a category of BTEA hence the jobseekers allowance decision. The BTEA category is removed for the summer and re-instated when you return to education.

Greenacres

eastbono wrote: »

You are still on jobseekers allowance but with a category of BTEA hence the jobseekers allowance decision. The BTEA category is removed for the summer and re-instated when you return to education.

'The Back to Education Allowance is a non-statutory scheme and, as such, decisions cannot be appealed to the Social Welfare Appeals Office.'

but yet you can appeal your JA decision.
Same scheme??

When i qualified for BTEA I received a BTEA decision letter with my rate.
They told me in my local office that issuing me with a JA decision letter was the only way that they could figure out how to reopen my claim. I haven't even received a letter detailing how my means were assessed.

I think I have every right to be pissed off about that. They are cleary making it up as they go along.

Kerry3333

Greenacres,

I am in the same situation, (well I will be next summer) So this morning I went into my Local Welfare Office and asked a woman at the query counter. She told me if you work Full time during the summer you won't be assessed on that Income when you go back to College in September. But if you are working Part time then they will get the average of the last 8 weeks pay you received before September and that is what you will get when you go back to College.

wmpdd3

Yes but can you get that in writing! Op, ask your hatch for your means test letter for jsa, it's very important in the case of an overpayment claim by the dsp.