Insulation on water cylinder

peustace

Hey,

Can someone pls take a look at the insulation on the water cylinder pictured here, I'm wondering if I need to get more insulation or put a jacket on it

Thanks!

sandydan

the insulation on tank itself is sufficient ,lagging jackets are for uninsulated cylinder only and will not fit around cylinder already insulated,anyway they are not as good. depending on hot press size the pipe work may need to be insulated further, there is a formula for requirement of heat for heating and airing purposes to determine the length of uninsulated pipe- there is no need for rad in press. if not using airing press lag pipe work with heavy grey insulation . insulate hot press in-partition with polystyrene slab or cosy wrap to maximize efficiency of hot press and wall using drywall slab .i know of house with uninsulated cylinder however the insulation on inside press is unbelievable,including back of door.

scudo2

NO insulation required. Cylinder is already insulated.

esox28

What's the harm....put a lagging jacket on it.

That cylinder hardly has 15mm of cover standard copper cylinders now come with 40mm.

A pain to get the 312's on but nessary.

SmallBalls

esox28 wrote: »

A pain to get the 312's on

Even worse with 317's

peustace

esox28 wrote: »

What's the harm....put a lagging jacket on it.

That cylinder hardly has 15mm of cover standard copper cylinders now come with 40mm.

A pain to get the 312's on but nessary.

Thats what I was initially thinking. The tank has been there for a few years so surely new tanks are better insulated. Would there be an extra benefit insulating it further?

What are 312s?!

Wearb

peustace wrote: »

Thats what I was initially thinking. The tank has been there for a few years so surely new tanks are better insulated. Would there be an extra benefit insulating it further?

What are 312s?!

Female versions of 311s

Wearb

peustace wrote: »

Thats what I was initially thinking. The tank has been there for a few years so surely new tanks are better insulated. Would there be an extra benefit insulating it further?

What are 312s?!

Joking aside, a 311 is the brass connection that allows piping to be connected to cylinder. I would have doubts about a jacket providing a LOT of extra insulation. You may be better served by making sure all pipe work in the hot press is lagged.

sandydan

do you know how old is that cylinder and what brand is it , a 4 ft length of uninsulated copper pipe is needed to heat hot press. one thing for sure some copper cylinders are very thin, some are so thin they are easily damaged and should be replaced anyway-cheaper than replacement ceiling.
check wall thickness if its marked.( check a few pluming supply stores for price and thickness of cylinders, when i was renovating a in 07 one store told me only one type available copper@ €750 ,plumber told me different,got steel 2 coil 200lt for €900 uninsulated so ask a few stores). a month ago thick walled copper cylinders cost around €500 insulated with 2 coils , thinner walled around €350.
if you ever considered solar heating the alternative is solar cylinder for around €1400 some of those have a replaceable anode to prevent corrosion of cylinder due to water problems (this must be replaced annually) costing around €50,well insulated and part of plumbing completed reducing cost when installing solar system upgrading value of house and reducing heating costs.

peustace

sandydan wrote: »

do you know how old is that cylinder and what brand is it , a 4 ft length of uninsulated copper pipe is needed to heat hot press. one thing for sure some copper cylinders are very thin, some are so thin they are easily damaged and should be replaced anyway-cheaper than replacement ceiling.
check wall thickness if its marked.( check a few pluming supply stores for price and thickness of cylinders, when i was renovating a in 07 one store told me only one type available copper@ €750 ,plumber told me different,got steel 2 coil 200lt for €900 uninsulated so ask a few stores). a month ago thick walled copper cylinders cost around €500 insulated with 2 coils , thinner walled around €350.
if you ever considered solar heating the alternative is solar cylinder for around €1400 some of those have a replaceable anode to prevent corrosion of cylinder due to water problems (this must be replaced annually) costing around €50,well insulated and part of plumbing completed reducing cost when installing solar system upgrading value of house and reducing heating costs.

Thanks everyone for the comments. Sounds like I could do with insulating some of the pipes. Someone did say to me that the lagging on the pipes in the attic werent great so I was going to spend an evening replacing all or most of them.

I've attached an image of the logo on the top of the cylinder. Looks like a lycris and bryne cylinder... believe that company has gone now. No info on it as to how thick it is. Its approx a 4 foot cylinder. The house was built in 2006 so presume the cylinder is about 8 years

sandydan

peustace wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the comments. Sounds like I could do with insulating some of the pipes. Someone did say to me that the lagging on the pipes in the attic werent great so I was going to spend an evening replacing all or most of them.

I've attached an image of the logo on the top of the cylinder. Looks like a lycris and bryne cylinder... believe that company has gone now. No info on it as to how thick it is. Its approx a 4 foot cylinder. The house was built in 2006 so presume the cylinder is about 8 years

googled lb cylinders , that particular one is lightest cylinders . grade 3
they supplied 2 heavier grades than that. id change it and go solar tank.
regardless of whether or not you consider solar there is a very heavy grade pipe insulation suitable for outdoor use available and good for attics . one word of caution if insulating attic and pipework in attic insulate and cover tanks as well or fit small radiator or run of hot pipe under tank controlled by valves.frost can burst your tanks just as well. i was told you can place a space heater in attic but consult an electrician about it ,. insurance regs on those are fairly strict now i believe.
the steel 200lt cylinder i got is made by a Clare based company who insulate for €50 extra or to whatever thickness

corkgsxr

esox28 wrote: »

What's the harm....put a lagging jacket on it.

That cylinder hardly has 15mm of cover standard copper cylinders now come with 40mm.

A pain to get the 312's on but nessary.

I go straights onto everything and take a old cap put it on the fitting without a cone and use that to squeeze away all the fittings. No insulation cut

Imo that cylinders fine. Try it heated it up and try feel some heat off it.

I doubt it's just 15mm of it but that's equal to 60mm of fuzzy insulation.

sandydan

corkgsxr wrote: »

I go straights onto everything and take a old cap put it on the fitting without a cone and use that to squeeze away all the fittings. No insulation cut

Imo that cylinders fine. Try it heated it up and try feel some heat off it.

I doubt it's just 15mm of it but that's equal to 60mm of fuzzy insulation.

15mm is less than three quarters of inch 40mm is around one and half inches ans its heavy condensed type insulation for heat retention as well, looks like someone cut away some around joiner. only thing is now is cheapest time to buy cylinders, compared to years back.but as you say cylinder could be perfect.
heat is required to make any use of hot press otherwise they are useless,imo

dathi

sandydan wrote: »

the pipe work may need to be insulated further, there is a formula for requirement of heat for heating and airing purposes to determine the length of uninsulated pipe- there is no need for rad in press. if not using airing press lag pipe work with heavy grey insulation . .

part L building regulations tgd. you are now required to lag all pipework for one metre from cylinder
1.4.4.4 The hot pipes connected to hot water
storage vessels, including the vent pipe and
the primary flow and return to the heat
exchanger, where fitted, should be insulated,
to the standard outlined in paragraph 1.4.4.3
above, for at least one metre from their point
of connection.

sandydan

dathi wrote: »

part L building regulations tgd. you are now required to lag all pipework for one metre from cylinder
1.4.4.4 The hot pipes connected to hot water
storage vessels, including the vent pipe and
the primary flow and return to the heat
exchanger, where fitted, should be insulated,
to the standard outlined in paragraph 1.4.4.3
above, for at least one metre from their point
of connection.

is that H&S requirement to insulate hottest part of pipework, because it would be. that almost excludes use of existing hot pipes for airing purposes if cylinder is raised off floor level imo. thats why i prefer 200 litre tanks , higher level of coils etc prevent risk of air-locks. what does it say about location of air-vent valve,see photo of press.
insulated to that standard you will require rad in an airing press imo. is allowance made for that purpose,or is use of rad specified in regs.

dathi

sandydan wrote: »

is that H&S requirement to insulate hottest part of pipework, because it would be. that almost excludes use of existing hot pipes for airing purposes if cylinder is raised off floor level imo. thats why i prefer 200 litre tanks , higher level of coils etc prevent risk of air-locks. what does it say about location of air-vent valve,see photo of press.
insulated to that standard you will require rad in an airing press imo. is allowance made for that purpose,or is use of rad specified in regs.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,27316,en.pdf nothing to do with health and safety it to do with uncontrolled heat loss from the cylinder enjoy the read sorry i said section 1.4.4.4 which is new build should have said 2.2.4.4 which is refurbishment but it says pretty much the same

sandydan

dathi wrote: »

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,27316,en.pdf nothing to do with health and safety it to do with uncontrolled heat loss from the cylinder enjoy the read sorry i said section 1.4.4.4 which is new build should have said 2.2.4.4 which is refurbishment but it says pretty much the same

thanks for that ,i should have said in cases where heating of rads is not plumbed off stove. eg small stove used for heating water only. in central heating situation there are plenty pipe work and joiners exposed.
im no plumber , but employed a few and had to spend evenings sorting out air lock in flow pipes when attic tank emptied and stove nearly jumped around due to stat fitted in wrong place in flow pipe(hot), then discovered that 2nd coil was connected to line and part of circulation system. rather than sealed off.originally intended to add oil , but stove sufficient..also some acorn fitting leaked::eek:, had a solder plumbing system(joiners) leak all over ceilings after another and replaced all pipework including over back boiler myself,(financially coulnt afford to hire at time). so you could say im nearly a plumber interest wise but not spanner wise;)

sandydan

found the bit of info i was looking for re use of uninsulated pipes in an airing press or hot press

1.4.4.3 Unless the heat loss from a pipe or
duct carrying hot water contributes to the
useful heat requirement of a room or space,
the pipe or duct should be insulated.

i think but am open to correction on this interpretation of piece above , that when heat loss from pipes contribute to use of of space as an airing press it may be left uninsulated, but this doesn't mean excessive amount of hot pipe left uninsulated,

dathi

no you still have to insulate the pipe for 1 metre as it leaves the water cylinder

sandydan

dathi wrote: »

no you still have to insulate the pipe for 1 metre as it leaves the water cylinder

all pipes. or can pipe leaving cylinder be interpreted as expansion pipes