Why is Ulster football so negative?

WesternZulu

I was going to label this thread 'Why is Ulster football so bad?' but that may be a small bit unfair.

Year after year we are greeted with an array of tactics employed by all counties in the province; each one being more negative than the next.

It's kind of fascinating subculture in the North were expansive and free flowing football holds no allure, while the more robust and darker side of the game is embraced.

But why is this? You don't see the whole of Connacht, Munster or Leinster adopting such methods to win games.
Was it always like this in Ulster?

Brego888

It's by far the most competitive province. It's win at all costs. Might not be pretty but it's a results driven sport like every other. It's not for entertainment that they play its to win.

Historically it's been much less successful than the likes of Leinster and Munster until the 90's when a robust and defensive style bore fruit.
This platform was then developed further by Tyrone, Armagh and later Donegal to where we are today.

If there was no success to be had playing a certain way it would be changed. Just like every tactic/formation in other sports.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Even from the mid nineties onwards when I start watching football I always found Ulster matches to be more dour than the other provincial championships.There are plenty of classy stylish footballers in ulster but it seems whenever they play against each other any thoughts of free flowing football go out the window.

DARK-KNIGHT

heres another question

how long is a piece of string?

fta93

Is it negative though?

In Ulster, a lot of the teams are around the same level, hence the tight games. Whereas you don't get that in other provinces. Kerry, Mayo and Dublin are racking up big scores, mainly because the opposition is nowhere near them.

Maybe Ulster being too competitive brings down the entertainment value but that's not their problem.

Even in the WC in football, when good teams started to play each other, the number of goals dwindled. I was at the Dubs game today, great to watch the football on show but it gets a tad tedious games being over by half time. Donegal Monaghan mightn't have had the volume of scores but it had more intensity and drama than many.

K-9

Yep, it goes back to Ulster being the most competitive for decades, as far back as the early 80's when I started to watch it. Ulster club matches are also famous for it. Back in the 80's Ulster teams played tough, hard but fair stuff when it came to Croker, and got the patronising comments from Southern journalists when they went back with their tails between their legs, usually back to a first round exit the following Summer.

It was so bloody hard to come out of it, I can remember Vincent Hogan writing about Donegal in 90 after losing to a Mick Lyons Meath team, "shame we'll probably never see them back again." And he wasn't far wrong when he wrote it, nobody retained the title for about 20 years from 76 to 96 IIRC. Tyrone had a decent team in 86 but by the time they got back again in 89 they were a spent force, same with Monaghan in 85/88. Others like Derry and Donegal had to wait a good few years to get back to Croker again, while Cavan, Armagh and Down had to make do with losing finals for long periods. And when Armagh had a good team well, Kerry and Dublin won 9/10 All Irelands.

For all the bad rep Ulster had, Meath and Cork between 87 and 90 was far worse than the tough stuff that went on in Ulster.

The troubles didn't help. I remember somebody telling me that his club team won a Derry title in the late 70's, within a couple of years nearly all of them were either locked up, on the run or dead!

Luckily Down made the break through in 91 and there have been 4 new brand champions from Ulster since.

Mentioning Down also brings us back to history. Kerry had a thing about Down in the 60's (the only team that Kerry have never beaten in AI history) and moaned about too much short passing, players not just sticking to their positions, third midfielders and breaking ball. The truth was Down were way ahead of Kerry at the time and brought proper training and tactics to GAA. There seems to be an inbuilt bogey men complex when Ulster teams do well, has to be dark arts or something.

The turning point in recent history was the Tyrone Meath match in 96. Canavan, Dooher and others from the talented U-21 side a couple of years before that took a hammering physically that day and it was never forgotten. Armagh also got sick of a poor spell in Ulster and came back with a more professional approach and one Kieran McGeeney.

Basically Tyrone and Armagh got sick of playing nice, tough but fair football while the likes Meath won stuff often not playing nice stuff.

So we all know what happened next, puke football as the Kerry men like to call it. Ulster became the most competitive province by a considerable distance, all 9 teams reached an Ulster Final between 2000 and 2009, including the usual also rans, Antrim and Fermanagh.

The qualifiers was just as big a part of that success as any particular type of Ulster football. Down and Derry were/aren't known for puke football, Donegal got the fake praise about being a nice team to play against, all reached AI S/F's and Q/F's doing that, Down even a final, blitzing Kerry in the process playing with the usual Down arrogance and flair when they see a Kerry jersey.

Fermanagh, the smallest county in playing numbers were a kick of a ball away from an AI final against Kerry and it wasn't particularly defensive, they played the football that suited them, even Antrim gave Kerry a go in the qualifiers.

Since the Qualifiers came in Tyrone, Armagh and Donegal have won AI's, Down got to a final, Derry 2 S/F's, Fermanagh drew a S/F and a provincial final, Monaghan 3 Q/F's, even Cavan and Antrim got runs in the Qualifiers. So whatever it is, it works.

Donegal got sick of being party boys and further developed the blanket defence in 2011, a kick of a ball away from beating Dublin, then won an AI playing good counter attacking stuff, players all over the pitch scoring.

The standard isn't as high as it was, but then again it was an extremely high standard as shown above, none of the other provinces could/can come close as a competition. Connacht has at least some semblance of competition but the look what happened there, Mayo went with the new age and now dominate, Dublin likewise in Leinster.

Kerry and Cork can play their play off decider to see who gets to an AI Q/F and that's about it.

So let the haters hate, Ulster teams got sick of making up the numbers, got organised and professional approaches, came up with a new system, developed it into devastating counter attack when played at its best like Tyrone in 05/08 and Donegal in 2012 and the likes of Kerry, Dublin and Cork couldn't deal with it.

Meanwhile Meath, the team that Ulster teams often looked up to but got bullied by, haven't won an AI since 2001.

But listen condemn Ulster football for negative tactics. I remember the Dirty Dozen in 83 and that Dublin team coming to Ballybofey to play a league match in 84, I remember the Cork vs. Meath "football" matches between 87 and 88, I remember Meath and Dublin in the 90's as well, so hold on to your romantic notions and we'll keep doing our own thing up here. At least we have loads of actual "matches", seems to be a rarity these days in the other 3 provinces.

SORRY for the rant, long posts, I prefer getting it out here than entertaining the usuals in other threads.

Lemlin

fta93 wrote: »

Is it negative though?

In Ulster, a lot of the teams are around the same level, hence the tight games. Whereas you don't get that in other provinces. Kerry, Mayo and Dublin are racking up big scores, mainly because the opposition is nowhere near them.

Maybe Ulster being too competitive brings down the entertainment value but that's not their problem.

Even in the WC in football, when good teams started to play each other, the number of goals dwindled. I was at the Dubs game today, great to watch the football on show but it gets a tad tedious games being over by half time. Donegal Monaghan mightn't have had the volume of scores but it had more intensity and drama than many.

This sums it up perfectly. You have 5/6 teams in Ulster with realistic aspirations of winning the Ulster championship. No other province has that.

Six of the nine teams will be in Division 1 and 2 next year, 4 of those in Division 1.

Too many people listen to the RTE panel. BBC give a far better tactical analysis of how the football is played.

Spillane is too busy on RTE venting his vendetta that Kerry couldn't beat Tyrone in the noughties. He's have no problem with Ulster football if the lads continued going to Croke Park and getting drubbings from the other provinces.