dairy options

stretch film

A recently closed thread was of intetest to me regarding the options available to retiring dairy farmers with no successor. Local to me there are well setup farms with no one available to take over. Anyone have experience or opinions on the subject.

Im coming from a point where I have a fair bit to do inside my own gate to increase numbers but am well setup and prepared.
I def dont think I'd have alot of time to put into any new venture in a day to day capacity so feel id need a manager on board who'd have a stake also.

Im sure many lads of a cettain age would love to keep an iron in the fire and would be a great asset to have in any new arrangement.

Like a land sale, an opportunity like this is not going to crop up with any regularity, so no harm in having it thought through.

freedominacup

stretch film wrote: »

A recently closed thread was of intetest to me regarding the options available to retiring dairy farmers with no successor. Local to me there are well setup farms with no one available to take over. Anyone have experience or opinions on the subject.

Im coming from a point where I have a fair bit to do inside my own gate to increase numbers but am well setup and prepared.
I def dont think I'd have alot of time to put into any new venture in a day to day capacity so feel id need a manager on board who'd have a stake also.

Im sure many lads of a cettain age would love to keep an iron in the fire and would be a great asset to have in any new arrangement.

Like a land sale, an opportunity like this is not going to crop up with any regularity, so no harm in having it thought through.

What will you be bringing to the party? You have outlined a scenario where you have an farmer of retirement age who wants to keep an interest in his farm, a young manager with skin in the game, what do they want you around for?

stretch film

freedominacup wrote: »

What will you be bringing to the party? You have outlined a scenario where you have an farmer of retirement age who wants to keep an interest in his farm, a young manager with skin in the game, what do they want you around for?

Not outlining any particular scenario just describing a few options how a situation like it might play out.

Lets say a retiree is happy to take up a rental situation then it would be up to me to stock and manage the farm . This is the scenario where a young enthusiastic guy/gal with some skin in the game ( essential imo) is needed . I wont have a time for any day to day bar lets say a half day a week .

In a few years ill have stock and machinery and an ability to raise money to bring to the table.. the young guy wont.
Experience also.

In the scenario where the older farmer wants to slow down then he just gets a manager and incentivises him .
Not a choice id say many older lads would take . Have seen many examples where they sell cows and quota and rented out the land

exercise is the antidote

stretch film wrote: »

A recently closed thread was of intetest to me regarding the options available to retiring dairy farmers with no successor. Local to me there are well setup farms with no one available to take over. Anyone have experience or opinions on the subject.

Im coming from a point where I have a fair bit to do inside my own gate to increase numbers but am well setup and prepared.
I def dont think I'd have alot of time to put into any new venture in a day to day capacity so feel id need a manager on board who'd have a stake also.

Im sure many lads of a cettain age would love to keep an iron in the fire and would be a great asset to have in any new arrangement.

Like a land sale, an opportunity like this is not going to crop up with any regularity, so no harm in having it thought through.

I had a thread here a while ago on what to do with 80acres of tillage that I am only interested in milking cows off! I think it was timmay who mentioned a farm partnership with a well set dairy man! Now I am not saying I'm interested as everything is in my dad's name still but I think the only Real way for me to get into dairying would be just that as I wouldn't have access to the large capital needed for me to start from scratch! But i think a share of the jobs would make both people a lot happier if you could find the right person!

If you could find someone in your area that's thinking of switching to dairying? Maybe bring a proposal to them?!?
Best of luck!!!

frazzledhome

stretch film wrote: »

Not outlining any particular scenario just describing a few options how a situation like it might play out.

Lets say a retiree is happy to take up a rental situation then it would be up to me to stock and manage the farm . This is the scenario where a young enthusiastic guy/gal with some skin in the game ( essential imo) is needed . I wont have a time for any day to day bar lets say a half day a week .

In a few years ill have stock and machinery and an ability to raise money to bring to the table.. the young guy wont.
Experience also.

In the scenario where the older farmer wants to slow down then he just gets a manager and incentivises him .
Not a choice id say many older lads would take . Have seen many examples where they sell cows and quota and rented out the land

I can't see how what your outlining would attract a suitor.
1 You say you have no capital
2. You have experience
3. You propose putting in manager with skin in the game.

I hope I'm not misrepresenting your post but as Free says your not necessary in this equation as the land owner would have no 1 and the manager 2&3.

If I was the farmer I'd bypass you.

Now if you were in a position to buy the stock from the owner and pay the labour I'd say your proposal would be more attractive

mf240

Two things op, in this situation you are an unnessecary middle man.

The other thing is looking at it from the retiring mans point of view. If i get to 65 ish and have nobody to take over ill be selling up and enjoying the fruits of my labour. Dont intend to leave anything after me other than the price of a funeral.

freedominacup

mf240 wrote: »

Two things op, in this situation you are an unnessecary middle man.

The other thing is looking at it from the retiring mans point of view. If i get to 65 ish and have nobody to take over ill be selling up and enjoying the fruits of my labour. Dont intend to leave anything after me other than the price of a funeral.

You're very generous. I wouldn't be leaving the price of the funeral.

mf240

freedominacup wrote: »

You're very generous. I wouldn't be leaving the price of the funeral.

Would be afraid the fcukers woundnt bother burrying me if I didnt !!!!

stretch film

frazzledhome wrote: »

I can't see how what your outlining would attract a suitor.
1 You say you have no capital
2. You have experience
3. You propose putting in manager with skin in the game.

I hope I'm not misrepresenting your post but as Free says your not necessary in this equation as the land owner would have no 1 and the manager 2&3.

If I was the farmer I'd bypass you.

Now if you were in a position to buy the stock from the owner and pay the labour I'd say your proposal would be more attractive

firstly this thread was set up as the " dairy farm for rent" thread opened the subject to the forum. this spring in my general area a retiring farmer came to an arrangement with an existing dairy farmer , the details to which i`m not privvy ,which led to him "renting" the farm and buying the stock and working within quota regs in a new set up. the concept of persuing another farming entity is an intersting one to me and like every area there are farmers nearing retirement without a succesor and with that who knows what oppertunity might arise . there is no farm avaiable atm,no dealine for decision or any thing like that i`m just putting this out and looking for opinions /experiences.

1. i never said i dont have capital . my home farm is very well setup bar some final modifications to cattle housing to allow me up production by 70% . i have the heifers on the ground and will do this in two years . the xpansion squeeze on cashflow will be shortlived imo and i`ll have available cash to do with what i please outside of my well set up farm.

2. i say i have experience and good stock management and grassland skills . there just the facts . farming is what i know, not stocks and shares ,property and the likes . they just lock up money and are variable in growth to put it mildly.

3. a turnkey dairy farm for rent is attractive cos it is a low commitment of capital option to get milk flowing but its the labour input where im not in a position to meet requirements.
a young farm manager cannot stock this farm and get going himself cos he cant raise the capital to buy the cows . no bank will loan against stock afaik
why i would choose a farm manager with some skin in the game is because it will keep him foused and motivated like i am. i`m phucked if im running around after a half arsed lad.

4. maybe u took me up wrong on the land owners involvement in these hypothetical arrangements . if some are of a mind to take on a manager they will and the farm will never be up for rent in the first place. the scenario in the other thread is the one im interested in hearing opinions on. most retirees will do exactly that and put the farm up for rent .its the max they can get income wise other than selling up altogether.

so just come at this with your views on whether theres enough in it for the lanlord ,the manager and the "investor " who will be operating in an area he understands best .

Coonagh

IMO Rough breakdown would be landlord 50% you 25% manager 25%, now the question is whether enough scale or potential for scale exists that it would be worthwhile for all three parties.

frazzledhome

stretch film wrote: »

firstly this thread was set up as the " dairy farm for rent" thread opened the subject to the forum. this spring in my general area a retiring farmer came to an arrangement with an existing dairy farmer , the details to which i`m not privvy ,which led to him "renting" the farm and buying the stock and working within quota regs in a new set up. the concept of persuing another farming entity is an intersting one to me and like every area there are farmers nearing retirement without a succesor and with that who knows what oppertunity might arise . there is no farm avaiable atm,no dealine for decision or any thing like that i`m just putting this out and looking for opinions /experiences.

1. i never said i dont have capital . my home farm is very well setup bar some final modifications to cattle housing to allow me up production by 70% . i have the heifers on the ground and will do this in two years . the xpansion squeeze on cashflow will be shortlived imo and i`ll have available cash to do with what i please outside of my well set up farm.

2. i say i have experience and good stock management and grassland skills . there just the facts . farming is what i know, not stocks and shares ,property and the likes . they just lock up money and are variable in growth to put it mildly.

3. a turnkey dairy farm for rent is attractive cos it is a low commitment of capital option to get milk flowing but its the labour input where im not in a position to meet requirements.
a young farm manager cannot stock this farm and get going himself cos he cant raise the capital to buy the cows . no bank will loan against stock afaik
why i would choose a farm manager with some skin in the game is because it will keep him foused and motivated like i am. i`m phucked if im running around after a half arsed lad.

4. maybe u took me up wrong on the land owners involvement in these hypothetical arrangements . if some are of a mind to take on a manager they will and the farm will never be up for rent in the first place. the scenario in the other thread is the one im interested in hearing opinions on. most retirees will do exactly that and put the farm up for rent .its the max they can get income wise other than selling up altogether.

so just come at this with your views on whether theres enough in it for the lanlord ,the manager and the "investor " who will be operating in an area he understands best .

Sorry Stretch, I get your question now. Yes is the answer.

keep going

Running a few numbers on things at the moment and all I say is that at 39 cent almost anything makes sense but at 30 things dont be long getting hairy.cant see how there is a return for 3 people in this arrangement given the risks associated. They are setting up a farm in bandon to test out partnership arrangement s which would see a young farmer bring cows and milk there with a share out in the milk check to the owners as well.it will be interesting to see how it will pan out and what lessons can be learnt from it .they are putting up a parlour and wintering facilities and slurry storage for 90 cows for around 150k and hoping to be operational next spring.they are looking for an operater at the moment

trixi2011

keep going wrote: »

Running a few numbers on things at the moment and all I say is that at 39 cent almost anything makes sense but at 30 things dont be long getting hairy.cant see how there is a return for 3 people in this arrangement given the risks associated. They are setting up a farm in bandon to test out partnership arrangement s which would see a young farmer bring cows and milk there with a share out in the milk check to the owners as well.it will be interesting to see how it will pan out and what lessons can be learnt from it .they are putting up a parlour and wintering facilities and slurry storage for 90 cows for around 150k and hoping to be operational next spring.they are looking for an operater at the moment

I've been doing some figures on theses types of partnerships and to be honest I think down at the hundred cow mark you would be better off working for a salary for someone else.

stretch film

300 euro an acre rent was a figure put out before. lets say 100 acres carrying 100 cows and 20 repl units. i`m sure a modest salary for manager would be circa 35k (please correct me).

most quibbles about the profit monitors covered there ie; value on land and own labour(in this case a hired replacement).

so that's the first 650 euros profit covered.

up to landlord to cover some costs (maintenance etc) but still a fair profit needed to make money.

these are just off top of head but certainly its a numbers with th hired labour option.

what did ye lads come up with figures wise?

stretch film

300 euro an acre rent was a figure put out before. lets say 100 acres carrying 100 cows and 20 repl units. i`m sure a modest salary for manager would be circa 35k (please correct me).

most quibbles about the profit monitors covered there ie; value on land and own labour(in this case a hired replacement).

so that's the first 650 euros profit covered.

up to landlord to cover some costs (maintenance etc) but still a fair profit needed to make money.

these are just off top of head but certainly its a numbers game with th hired labour option.

what did ye lads come up with figures wise?

trixi2011

stretch film wrote: »

300 euro an acre rent was a figure put out before. lets say 100 acres carrying 100 cows and 20 repl units. i`m sure a modest salary for manager would be circa 35k (please correct me).

most quibbles about the profit monitors covered there ie; value on land and own labour(in this case a hired replacement).

so that's the first 650 euros profit covered.

up to landlord to cover some costs (maintenance etc) but still a fair profit needed to make money.

these are just off top of head but certainly its a numbers game with th hired labour option.

what did ye lads come up with figures wise?

feck all money for anyone if milk price drops close to 30. :eek: