Changing your motor tax rate?

atreid

Hello all,

I have imported my car from the US (a 2012 Ford Fiesta) and as you may know, it doesn't come with a CO2 label on it. So basically, I called everyone around to try and get that value but to no avail.

Now, I managed to find some specs manual talking about a 179 value that put the car in Band E. VRT accepted that but after calling a Ford dealership here in Ireland, I have been told my car is supposed to be a B2 band.

It seems to be an absolute nightmare to get a clear answer from anyone so I was wondering if somebody here could help me figure out what I should do...

I even did an Engineer report here in Ireland but none of the results I got mention any Band or any g/KM value so I am at a loss.

Any pointers will be super appreciated.

Thanks,

Viper_JB

All depends on the engine size you have but have a look here .... http://www.nextgreencar.com/cars/ford/fiesta/

atreid

I have a 1.6L TIVCT PFI SIgma which I cannot seem to find on this website.

Do you know if there is an equivalent version for US cars?

Also, would that website hold weight if I was bringing this to the NCT office to try and get a new Motor Tax band?

Thanks

Henry Ford III

That engine was in a Fiesta Zetec S c.2009 (manual transmission). Road tax wasn't bad on it at all.

Esel

There is a formula to calculate CO2 from official manufacturer fuel consumption figures.

atreid

Oh, any idea where I could find that formula?

Thanks

Buzz Killington the third

First thing, I'd be looking for a VRT refund if you paid for a higher co2 rated vehicle.

atreid

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

First thing, I'd be looking for a VRT refund if you paid for a higher co2 rated vehicle.

The thing is that to ask for a refund, I first need to prove the CO2 emissions of my car are worth A b2 band, which proves to be incredibly hard.

Esel

atreid wrote: »

Oh, any idea where I could find that formula?

Thanks

I think I saw it on www.revenue.ie but if not I'm sure you will find it via Google.

Henry Ford III

atreid wrote: »

The thing is that to ask for a refund, I first need to prove the CO2 emissions of my car are worth A b2 band, which proves to be incredibly hard.

Seems to be 136g which means €280 p.a.in motor tax.

p.s. Is it a lhd?

bazz26

The problem here is that the car was originally designed and tuned for the US market despite a similar car being sold here. There could be any number of different changes including emissions, made to the car in order to be compliant in either Continents depending on local regulations and laws. Imo you really need to get some sort of official document or report from the likes of Ford America to confirm the original co2 rating on the car. I doubt Ford Europe would be or could be helpful in this matter.

Henry Ford III

These days cars are designed to be "global" which means they are more likely be identical from continent to continent.

If US models have no C02 rating measured you'll need confirmation from Ford that your car is identical to a Euro version of the same car.

colm_mcm

OP is your car manual or automatic?

R.O.R

atreid wrote: »

Oh, any idea where I could find that formula?

Thanks

http://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-fuelconsumption-from-gperkmgasoline-to-lper100km.html

Conveniently, it has both imperial and US conversions.

Conversion via formula doesn't always seem to give the same result as the manufacturer publishes (use it in work), but it's 0.1l/100km in the difference, so should come close enough to know there is an issue with the VRT category that's been assigned, if you can find the official consumption figures for your car.

EDIT

http://www.ford.com/cars/fiesta/specifications/ has combined as 31 US MPG, which is 176g - so Revenue may be correct.

Henry Ford III

R.O.R wrote: »

http://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-fuelconsumption-from-gperkmgasoline-to-lper100km.html

Conveniently, it has both imperial and US conversions.

Conversion via formula doesn't always seem to give the same result as the manufacturer publishes (use it in work), but it's 0.1l/100km in the difference, so should come close enough to know there is an issue with the VRT category that's been assigned, if you can find the official consumption figures for your car.

EDIT

http://www.ford.com/cars/fiesta/specifications/ has combined as 31 US MPG, which is 176g - so Revenue may be correct.

It's the same 120bhp version we had. This is quite confusing.

robtri

have you tried just ringing Ford in the US and asking them to email or fax them you the information you need?

http://www.ford.com/help/contact/

bazz26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

These days cars are designed to be "global" which means they are more likely be identical from continent to continent.

If US models have no C02 rating measured you'll need confirmation from Ford that your car is identical to a Euro version of the same car.

Cars have been built using a global model for years, sharing platforms, engines, drive trains, etc. but they may still have different things like specs, transmission, performance and safety features unique to the various markets they are sold in. For example unleaded fuel in the US maybe a different grade to the unleaded fuel sold here so the both cars would be setup differently, this could effect co2 emissions. A US spec Fiesta would not be identical to a EU spec Fiesta the same way a JDM Corolla would be different to one originally sold over here.

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote: »

Cars have been built using a global model for years, sharing platforms, engines, drive trains, etc. but they may still have different things like specs, transmission, performance and safety features unique to the various markets they are sold in. For example unleaded fuel in the US maybe a different grade to the unleaded fuel sold here so the both cars would be setup differently, this could effect co2 emissions. A US spec Fiesta would not be identical to a EU spec Fiesta the same way a JDM Corolla would be different to one originally sold over here.

Or perhaps not?

DakarVert

Long shot, But try putting your chassis number into the Ford Etis website... Might just give emission info?

BTW howcome you imported when Fiestas are common enough here?

darg

If you appealing the current rate of tax based on emmisions, you must request a 'certificate of comformity' from ford based on the chassis number of your vehicle. This is the only proof acceptable in your appeal

share_bear

High OP.

IF you go to fueleconomy.gov and look up your car, and go to the "environment" tab, it will give you the official us government co2 figure for your car.

Now here is where it gets interesting.
US gallons are different to Imperial gallons, but also US fuel economy test is harsher than both the EU test and the Test in Japan. So your co2 figure is overstated.

However, the US government website bases the co2 calculation not only on the car but also on details ou enter about yourself as a driver, such as proportion of city to highway driving, which means you can push the offical co2 figure down a bit.

For example, I've done this for the 2015 Mustang Convertible here:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=35861&#tab2

I would be very interested to know how you got on with revenue, and if you didn' suceed, please let me know if you were able to suceed by this method - as I am interested in importing from Canada which is dirt cheap!

PM also sent.

atreid

He guys,

Sorry for the lack of answers, I just realised everything was going to my spam filter.

The reason why I brought my car back was because it was just about 1 year old and so I would have lost a lot of money. Also, my employer was paying for the transfer so why the hell not

I called everyone at Ford, even some of the US factory and nobody, I mean nobody, had a bloody clue about the Co2 emissions of this car (or any for that matter). This was quite astonishing and very disappointing.

So yeah, I am stuck as I cannot seem to be able to get a certificate of conformity as the one I paid for did not have the right information on it.

colm_mcm

Any market for it on mainland Europe I wonder?

atreid

Maybe in France...

But now I have another issue happening to me...I swear, this is getting almost comical.

I need to change the Tail light lenses to Amber because the american are Red and I cannot find anyway to do that. I called Ashley Ford but they said they could not help.

Would anybody have an idea how to do this? Keep in mind that my model Fiesta Sedan model doesnt exist in Europe...arrrgghhh

Any help is welcome!

Special Circumstances

Surely the only thing that needs to be amber is the indicator? Who told you you need to change something?

Is this your car? Is the indicator in the "white/clear" section of the light cluster, or is it in the red part?

atreid

It's red as well and yes, this is my car.

The guy from RSA told me that It needed to be amber. He said they could be a bit flexible but red light on red lense was a no no.

Special Circumstances

Any chance these were made for Mexico, Brazil etc etc - ie a country where the indicators must be amber?

You would never really know what would be accepted by the NCT in terms of modifications to existing lights or auxilliary indicators. Both of those options would look bad too probably.

atreid

I bought it in CA so probably made in Mexico I guess?

My question is guess is do you think I can find an amber light bulb to use on my car?

ShaunieVW

I wonder if you could get a green bulb? Green through a red lense makes amber AFAIK, Thats what the late 206's had( lens was green though no the bulb. Worth a shot.

Special Circumstances

atreid wrote: »

I bought it in CA so probably made in Mexico I guess?

My question is guess is do you think I can find an amber light bulb to use on my car?

Oh they'll be ok with that? I thought you needed white/amber indicator lens.
Shouldn't be a big deal so - although as seanievw says you may need a green LED bulb to get an amber light...

MadYaker

This a very unusual situation to be in, unfortunately I have no helpful advice whatsoever!

atreid

interesting thinking!

Any idea where I could buy this kind of stuff around Dublin?

Special Circumstances

Find out what bulb type it is on some online lookup.
Hope it isn't indicator AND tail light as the same bulb - is that a historical US setup for lights??

slimjimmc

Seems the tail light, brake light and indicators operate off the same bulb as show in the videos below. AFAIK while the brake and tail lamps can be combined the indicator must be a separate amber lamp (white definitely not allowed).

Daytime : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCLISwM-3wY
Nighttime : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfBIlf_9X9o

hi5

Co2 per mile are here...under energy and envoirment
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=31654

Where the brake and indicator signal lights combine, you can usually separate them at the brake pedal switch and run a separate wire and bulb back for the brake lights.
An amber bulb will show through a red lens as amber although a little darker, drill a hole in the reflector and use a push fit socket.
Or you could change out your reversing lights to use as indicators with amber bulbs and fit a separate bolt on reversing light.
I've done two pickup trucks in the past for DOE, it would not be a big job for an auto electrician.

Spook_ie

Probably too late but would page 3 of this be of any use for the emissions
http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/programs/emissions/2012_a0101647.pdf

Is the indicator behind one of the clear panels or are they just reversing lights?

If indicators are there then simple fix would be to use
http://www.halfords.ie/motoring-travel/bulbs-wiper-blades-batteries/bulbs/halfords-hbu581-21w-car-bulbs-x-2

If not there then get autoelectrician to connect the reversing bulb to the indicator circuit and still go http://www.halfords.ie/motoring-travel/bulbs-wiper-blades-batteries/bulbs/halfords-hbu581-21w-car-bulbs-x-2

Special Circumstances

slimjimmc wrote: »

Seems the tail light, brake light and indicators operate off the same bulb as show in the videos below. AFAIK while the brake and tail lamps can be combined the indicator must be a separate amber lamp

Uh-Oh... could be messy.

Edit, spook has a good idea. If you have a reversing light on both sides in the clear part of the plastic, then a bit of modification and amber bulbs should work.

Spook_ie

Looking deeper, this site sells OEM replacement assys, seems like the bulb is orange


http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Ford/Fiesta/AutoTrust_Gold/Tail_Light/2012/S/4_Cyl_1-dot-6L/WREPF730152ATG.html?intcmpid=Product%20Listings%20Clearance

Special Circumstances

Hatch not sedan/saloon by the look of it spook.

Spook_ie

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Hatch not sedan/saloon by the look of it spook.

More to show that they seem to have an orange bulb fitted, page does list 4 part numbers 2 for driver side/ 2 for passenger side maybe H/B and saloon.

Whole thing can get messy with imports, my jap import Camry had special bulbs that had to be imported, windscreen was apparently an import item if I ever needed to replace it, good job in those days Toyota was almost literally bulletproof

atreid

I just called Ford Ireland and they told me that simply changing the bulb to Amber should do the trick

slimjimmc

atreid wrote: »

I just called Ford Ireland and they told me that simply changing the bulb to Amber should do the trick

Changing the bulb to amber won't solve the problem if the indicators are not independent from the brake/tail lights. You cannot have indicators showing from the same reflectors as the brake/tail lights.

atreid

As you said, they are all using the same bulbs, so I am a bit desperate, especially as I realized that they don't even use the same bulbs for the EU and US ford cars.

atreid

As you said, they are all using the same bulbs, so I am a bit desperate, especially as I realized that they don't even use the same bulbs for the EU and US ford cars.

At this point, I guess my best bet would be to ask an Autoelectrician. Anybody knows a good one around Dublin?

Thanks!

atreid

Hey guys,

So my bulb model is 3157 for the taillight break/signal and I did a lot more research and I found out this website (I cannot put the link because I am a new user still)

Www.vleds.com/shop-bulb-numbers/3157-3156-led.html

I see there are dual color amber and white and I was wondering if you, as experts, could let me know if one of these would make the trick for Ireland? I gotta say there are so many choices that it confuses me

Thanks!