Cows lacking something

Betsyboy

Hi there im new to this and just looking for abit of advice

Im a young dairy farmer and over the last couple of weeks

I can`t Help but notice how my cows are pulling at everything
like they are lacking something as they enter and exit the
yard be it rope on a gate or maybe plastic that has blown in
now granted I know they shouldn`t be in reach of the cows
but about a week ago when I went out to the field two cows
were licking a stone in the ditch at this stage I knew it was
time to take action so I bought mineral licks and while they
did seem intrigued by them and seem content licking them I
thought I had conquered the problem when I was bringing in
the cows 2 days ago two more cows (not same cows as in field)
were chewing on a rubber mat in the cubicles.
Stunned I turned them on and this morning looking
at that same mat they are half way through it this is driving me
to the point of insanity.Cows are on 2kg of grass and have grass
in front of them grazing down tight. Im not by any means a bad
farmer or careless but wondered if anyone could shed some light
on my situation

Thanks!!

Kovu

What licks are they on Betsyboy?

If they're licking at the ground (trying to get at pee)they could be low in salt.

_Brian

I'd agree with Kovu.
Maybe a few salt blocks would be a good start.

greysides

Are they on any ration? I'm not a fan of licks. Some meal with minerals/trace elements/vitamins would be my suggestion. The meal is a carrier, just enough to do the job.

blue5000

Do a few blood samples before you start supplementing them with whatever you think they lack. Ask your vet, pool the samples from about 4 or 5 cows.

Betsyboy

Ya we sent away bloods and they came back okay nothing to ordinary my vet said we are using "knz" licks. They are salt licks they seem content but are still eating the rubber mats? Ive never knew cows to do that!! They are on dairy nuts 16% and rolled barley there getting 2 kg a day and are milking 20 litres a day

greysides

With normal bloods and nuts.............. What minerals were checked for?

Betsyboy

All of them Greysides I asked the vet to take multiple samples from the herd for everything I didnt see it in writing but he did say that nothing was unusual

greysides

Usually there are a limited few tested for. There's a lot of different ones that could be checked but as you pay per test per cow they add up pretty quick. Some of the tests are reasonably priced but some are quite expensive. For cattle the normal ones to be checked are copper, selenium and iodine.

Phosphorus deficiency is the typical one that causes pica (depraved appetite). But I'm sure other deficiencies may cause it too.

Betsyboy

No but in light of this new information I would like to call back my vet and ask what he checked for he told me it was for all of them and I didnt take much notice as I just wanted this to be cleared up but they dont have a depraved appetite I wouldnt think

blue5000

greysides wrote: »

Usually there are a limited few tested for. There's a lot of different ones that could be checked but as you pay per test per cow they add up pretty quick. Some of the tests are reasonably priced but some are quite expensive. For cattle the normal ones to be checked are copper, selenium and iodine.

Phosphorus deficiency is the typical one that causes pica (depraved appetite). But I'm sure other deficiencies may cause it too.

Barley is fairly high in P, but it is in a form not readily available to animals in cereals. What is the grass like, do you use much N?

greysides

Eating a rubber mat with no explanation or licking a stone.... that's a depraved appetite.

Could they simply be needing salt, plain old NaCl? All this hot weather and losing it in sweat?

Betsyboy

Ya I spread a bag to the acre after each grazing of "Sweetgrass"
I have been giving them salt licks maybe I need to give more time
for the licks to work I dont mean to sound ignorant "Greysides" im
just eager to get to the bottom of this to be honest

greysides

Not ignorant at all. Not knowing the composition of 'salt licks' and knowing that their are several compounds known as salts, I wonder how much actual salt, as in table salt, there is in the licks.

It's a curious condition, any time I've heard of something similar mins/vits has sorted it out.

just do it

Only a guess but lacking fibre? What you describe does sounds like a mineral deficiency alright but maybe their rumen is crying out for fibre?

Greysides would be in a better position to comment.

Welcome to boards by the way.

A cow called Daisy

Licking stones I've heard of but never eating rubber mats.
On the blood tests do you know if it tested for mylobodem? Doesn't it restrict the uptake of other minerals - although the one(s) that are low should of showed up.
Or, other posters, have I things mixed up as I normally do.

ganmo

How long have they had the salt block?
Are they licking them?

The place to start looking for trace element deficiency is getting the grass/soil tested, not cheap up around 70 or 80 quid.

onyerbikepat

Seeing that grass makes up the bulk of their feed, is there anything different there?
Have you reseeded recently, spread lime, checked PK & PH of soil?
Have you changed water supply etc etc?

Injuryprone

Chewing stones is classic phosphorus deficiency, so I'm told. Had that problem in the spring. Vet said straight away phos deficiency but we did a blood test just to make sure. Blooded 4, 2 came back ok. Injected everything anyway....seems to have done the trick.

Not meaning to scare you or anything but vet was telling me at the time that if untreated it could eventually kill. He had a suckler man lose 2 cows to it that same week. Went berserk right in front of the man, broke out of yard, ran through a few paddocks and dropped dead there and then. Don't know how long it would take to get to that stage though. Food for thought anyway. Other mineral deficiencies just result in reduced fertility/thrive etc. but not phosphorus.

Going to install the gadget for adding minerals to the water. Hope it'll solve the problem for next year.

mf240

I would throw them a bale of nice straw. As jdi suggests lack of fibre may be part of the problem. It wont do any harm anyway.

jt65

mf240 wrote: »

I would throw them a bale of nice straw. As jdi suggests lack of fibre may be part of the problem. It wont do any harm anyway.

+1

or try a little beet pulp or soya hulls in the diet

Greengrass1

Injuryprone wrote: »

Chewing stones is classic phosphorus deficiency, so I'm told. Had that problem in the spring. Vet said straight away phos deficiency but we did a blood test just to make sure. Blooded 4, 2 came back ok. Injected everything anyway....seems to have done the trick.

Not meaning to scare you or anything but vet was telling me at the time that if untreated it could eventually kill. He had a suckler man lose 2 cows to it that same week. Went berserk right in front of the man, broke out of yard, ran through a few paddocks and dropped dead there and then. Don't know how long it would take to get to that stage though. Food for thought anyway. Other mineral deficiencies just result in reduced fertility/thrive etc. but not phosphorus.

Going to install the gadget for adding minerals to the water. Hope it'll solve the problem for next year.

What did you inject with?.
We had awful problems with mineral definecys here. Now we put trace elements in water and phosphorus. Did the job.
Every herd and farm is different though

ganmo

Greengrass1 wrote: »

What did you inject with?.
We had awful problems with mineral definecys here. Now we put trace elements in water and phosphorus. Did the job.
Every herd and farm is different though

Sometimes every field!

Injuryprone

Greengrass1 wrote: »

What did you inject with?.
We had awful problems with mineral definecys here. Now we put trace elements in water and phosphorus. Did the job.
Every herd and farm is different though

http://www.hpra.ie/img/uploaded/swedocuments/LicenseSPC_10983-022-001_06072010020145.pdf

Gave them all 15cc

Betsyboy

Taken all this on board guys hopefully now with some straw and mineral licks they will be back to there best thanks for been so welcoming and generously helping me

milkprofit

Betsyboy wrote: »

All of them Greysides I asked the vet to take multiple samples from the herd for everything I didnt see it in writing but he did say that nothing was unusual

Get test results in print and file for future- u paid for them get second opinion
Is fertility ok --conception rate etc

give access to straw or hay
What covers are they grazing ?might try heavier
Why do they have access to cubicles in july --infection
keep us informed