Lessons-deterioration

superhooper

Having played golf socially for many years and enjoyed my occasional outings I decided to join a club and get the lessons in, practice a few holes in the evening.

After getting 5 lessons over the last few months my game has now deteriorated to the point that I cannot even go out and practice on the course. Surely no matter how bad my swing was etc.. one could at least expect some improvement?

Golfnut77

What changes did the pro make? Have you been putting in the work on the range?

superhooper

Golfnut77 wrote: »

What changes did the pro make? Have you been putting in the work on the range?

Primarily hitting in to out and not hitting down on ball as much. Tweaked grip,posture. I do look smoother but just can't get consistent connection especially when hitting off the turf and not the mats.

dan_ep82

It could be a number of things from getting the lessons of the mats, changing too much at once, not putting in enough practice or a mental issue behind the strikes.

Having said that, maybe the pro's style just doesn't suit you.

I've had two lessons, one from a different pro on each. The first pro I felt changed too much and left me with too many thoughts in my head. Current pro tweaked some small things and I've seen some great improvements

Montgolfier

I've had lessons from different pros also, same story try to come from the inside stuff.
Finally went to an old pro (cheapest too) he only said one thing. Take it back with the left arm and drive through with the left shoulder.
My right side was dominant causing me to cut across the ball as I didn't clear my left side.
By making me drive through with the left I was automatically clearing my left. He gave me lots of left arm exercises to make my left side more dominant.

superhooper

I should probably give it a break and go for a lesson to someone else in a few weeks. Head is full of stuff at this stage. Hard to do though when the weather is good.

John Divney

Did he ask you what you wanted out of it?

I'd say good pros have to ask are they going to tweak a bad swing for short term fix, or ask the student do they want to put the work in on a long term swing.

At the end of the day lessons are just band aids if they aren't the latter.

superhooper

John Divney wrote: »

Did he ask you what you wanted out of it?

No .just went and pointed out the problems. To be fair on the range it worked and progress was initially very good but could not take it to the course or off the mats for that matter.

Golfnut77

superhooper wrote: »

Primarily hitting in to out and not hitting down on ball as much. Tweaked grip,posture. I do look smoother but just can't get consistent connection especially when hitting off the turf and not the mats.

Anything with the grip is going to take a while, I changed my grip 5 or 6 years ago took me a full year to get used to it. I went up 1.9 shots in that time but since I got more comfortable with it I've gotten my handicap back down.

You said you played socially before? If that's still the case then maybe go back to the old grip as there's no enjoyment if you're afraid of even hitting the ball.

But if you want to get better and get your handicap down etc, I'd commit to the grip change, maybe not in competitions straight away but keep at it on the range until you get used to it.

superhooper

So excuse my ignorance but has this "in to out" school of golf been around long. I've been doing some Googling and there is a lot on it such as how most pros always use this swing path. Could that mean its too hard for the weekend warrior like my self? I don't recall mention of it in my early edition "Golf for Dummies "

Montgolfier

superhooper wrote: »

So excuse my ignorance but has this "in to out" school of golf been around long. I've been doing some Googling and there is a lot on it such as how most pros always use this swing path. Could that mean its too hard for the weekend warrior like my self? I don't recall mention of it in my early edition "Golf for Dummies "

They all teach in to out but the never mention that if you don't clear the left side, your best in to out effort will still cut across the ball.
The harder the swing the worse it shows it's teeth. A lot of guys say I hit my irons ok but my driver slices.
Pros want you to keep coming back.

Try hitting the ball with your right toe down watch link below.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yTIY00h0k

Worked for me anyway.

GreeBo

My pro teaches in to in, so they don't all teach a draw.
OP any change will take a while to bed in, especially if it's a big change.
Avoid playing and hit the range until it's comfortable

Gunner83

If I was you I'd start at the basics. Make sure grip and posture are ok. Make sure there's no disconnect of the arms and turn the body on the backswing and drive through the ball on the downswing. Maybe try and slow your swing tempo down until you get back hitting decent shots. It's normal to play very badly after lessons, sometimes it's a lot to take in.

What I do is keep a notebook in my bag and write down exactly what the pro says so if I'm playing bad I've got a reference to go to and usually it's something simple I'm forgetting to do.

hesker

I'd say that one swing instruction to swing in to out is the most destructive tip ever invented.

I struggled with trying to do that for years. Result. .... lots of push slices.

I finally got so fed up I said fcuk it I'm going to try the opposite. .. out to in.

When I started doing that I started to make rapid progress. Began to clear my hips properly and no more push slices.

Mind you I worked on lots of the other basics as well. Posture, balance, grip, weight shift.

How do you even do that anyway. All swings are in to square to in, with an open or shut club face.

My tip. Go to a different pro. Don't keep doing things that are not working or make you worse.

Boskowski

Montgolfier wrote: »

I've had lessons from different pros also, same story try to come from the inside stuff.
Finally went to an old pro (cheapest too) he only said one thing. Take it back with the left arm and drive through with the left shoulder.
My right side was dominant causing me to cut across the ball as I didn't clear my left side.
By making me drive through with the left I was automatically clearing my left. He gave me lots of left arm exercises to make my left side more dominant.

Same here. Ive been the worlds number one authority on out to in to the point where I wanted to pack it in. And I could take it away inside around my ankles and I'd still do it. And the reason was me hitting from the right instead of swinging from the left.

Its physically practically impossible to actually swing out to in. You would have to take it away wayyy out and up and then practically make no turn at all. If you make a turn at all you can't help but turn away inside.

But even with a good turn and an inside take away, if you're hitting with your right halfway down it will be out to in at impact.

To add insult to injury it feels now so normal and easy to not do that, that I couldnt possibly explain wtf I was doing all those years.

Edit: I can still hit pretty poor golf shots though :pac:

whizbang

Its physically practically impossible to actually swing out to in.

Yet every 2nd club golfer does it.

If you understand there is no real connection between the path you take it back, and the path of the downswing.
Only then you are starting to learn what causes 'over the top' or 'casting' as its often called.

ShivasIrons

Boskowski wrote: »

Same here. Ive been the worlds number one authority on out to in to the point where I wanted to pack it in. And I could take it away inside around my ankles and I'd still do it. And the reason was me hitting from the right instead of swinging from the left.

Its physically practically impossible to actually swing out to in. You would have to take it away wayyy out and up and then practically make no turn at all. If you make a turn at all you can't help but turn away inside.

But even with a good turn and an inside take away, if you're hitting with your right halfway down it will be out to in at impact.

To add insult to injury it feels now so normal and easy to not do that, that I couldnt possibly explain wtf I was doing all those years.

Edit: I can still hit pretty poor golf shots though :pac:

I don't understand what you're saying. How is it impossible to swing out to in? The majority of golfers are doing the practically impossible as they swing out to in.

Boskowski

I understand, what I mean is this:

You hold a stick out in front of you and you rotate away 90º and then you turn through 180º and you can't help but turn away inside, come back to the apex from the inside and then turn through back inside.
Now why is the end of the stick actually travelling out-to-in at the apex? Obviously because something else comes into play?

The old pro I got lessons from maintains it right hand taking over (too early) and thats what they call over the top or casting. It makes sense to me and after quite some time coming to terms with this it also actually works for me (not doing that) and on camera it now also looks like an actual golf swing. Yayyy.

Maybe this is over simplifying it but thats how the old guy drummed it home with me. The main thing must be the rotational movement and when the right hand only pushes through when it can't help but do it then you get in-to-out.

I'd love to hear some thoughts on that from others, ideally good golfers. I was really struggling a long time with this and only lately developed what feels like a dependable swing the way described and still building my game around that (which is now fun again). Please don't tell me thats all wrong - which I don't think you will?

Bruno26

Has anyone ever heard of Jim Mclellan, also known as the anti-pro. He believes we are wasting our time getting lessons and that any good pro should have us hitting far better shots within a couple of minutes.

His approach is that the golf swing is a simple thing and that 99% of golfers complicate it. His main point is that the golf swing takes less than two seconds, therefore once the swing begins we must forget about what certain positions you are in.

He claims to be able to stop a slice and have someone hitting draws after about 5 swings.

I bought his online instruction and it's helped me a lot. Before I was struggling to break 100. Now I'm averaging 90.

I believe John Richardson (Dream On) who broke par in a year used him.

hesker

Boskowski wrote: »

Please don't tell me thats all wrong - which I don't think you will?

It's all wrong.

I can swing flat out and hit a good drive and I never have to think about hitting out to in or casting or any of that other stuff.

You need to understand the plane of the hip turn and shoulder turn in backswing and downswing. I think a lot of people have problems with dipping the left shoulder in the backswing. I know I did. You can't recover from that unless you're gifted.

For backswing you establish your hip plane and shoulder plane at address. If you have good posture you just rotate back from those positions. The two planes won't necessarily be the same. Depends on your height and club in use. But the important thing is to maintain the plane as you rotate back.

In the downswing you lead with legs and hips. Hip plane will rotate back on same plane. Shoulder plane will get a lot steeper on downswing as the hips rotate to open position versus the shoulder plane. This allows you that feeling of hitting against a firm left side.

The other 2 things are proper weight transfer (forward and back) and getting the clubface in the correct orientation as you go back (not too open or too closed). Good grip also..and a few others maybe