Bad BER rating

leahyl

Could a bad BER rating (F) warrant getting a house for a lot less than the asking price?

How important is the BER and if it's bad does that mean that the property is very cold? I'm not exactly sure what the BER is if I'm honest!

Thanks

Senna

I think I would just walk away from a house that is an. F rating, there must be no insulation or even heating system. The price would need to reflect that, but how old is the house? A 100 year old house without moderisation with an F rating is probably normal, a 10 year old house with an F rating is very bad.

leahyl

Senna wrote: »

I think I would just walk away from a house that is an. F rating, there must be no insulation or even heating system. The price would need to reflect that, but how old is the house? A 100 year old house without moderisation with an F rating is probably normal, a 10 year old house with an F rating is very bad.

This house is around 40 years old

Sleeper12

leahyl wrote: »

Could a bad BER rating (F) warrant getting a house for a lot less than the asking price?

How important is the BER and if it's bad does that mean that the property is very cold? I'm not exactly sure what the BER is if I'm honest!

Thanks

Your surveyor (who is probably a ber surveyor also) will answer these questions.
If you want to insulate the outside of your house it'll cost around €14,000 to do this. I think there is a €4000 grant so that leaves €10k.
FForget about pumping insulation into the blocks. Least effective and in reality a waste of times.
You can insulate the inside of the house with up to 100 mill insulation boards for around €5k.
I can't say if you'll get this off the asking price but you should expect to pay this sort of money to make this home comfortable

Sleeper12

leahyl wrote: »

This house is around 40 years old

F rating for 40 year old house is normal. They were built with zero insulation 40 years ago

leahyl

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Your surveyor (who is probably a ber surveyor also) will answer these questions.
If you want to insulate the outside of your house it'll cost around €14,000 to do this. I think there is a €4000 grant so that leaves €10k.
FForget about pumping insulation into the blocks. Least effective and in reality a waste of times.
You can insulate the inside of the house with up to 100 mill insulation boards for around €5k.
I can't say if you'll get this off the asking price but you should expect to pay this sort of money to make this home comfortable

Thanks very much, this house has only just gone on the market so the BER kind of jumped out at me when I was reading the add!

I would hope that if there is absolutely no insulation or anything then I should expect to get some money off it...

Thanks again

L1011

leahyl wrote: »

Could a bad BER rating (F) warrant getting a house for a lot less than the asking price?

How important is the BER and if it's bad does that mean that the property is very cold? I'm not exactly sure what the BER is if I'm honest!

Thanks

No, because the BER rating (which really isn't worth much and can be utterly spurious - although you don't go fudging to *get* an F, but you can get one due to a terrible or lazy assessor) should be entirely factored in to the value of the house anyway.

Senna wrote: »

I think I would just walk away from a house that is an. F rating, there must be no insulation or even heating system. The price would need to reflect that, but how old is the house? A 100 year old house without moderisation with an F rating is probably normal, a 10 year old house with an F rating is very bad.

F is a pretty standard rating for anything over 25 years old without full single glazing; whether it has relatively modern central heating or not. I suspect a house with no heating system at all would get a G automatically due to it being incalculable - can't find how they'd calculate it otherwise.

ted1

leahyl wrote: »

Could a bad BER rating (F) warrant getting a house for a lot less than the asking price?

How important is the BER and if it's bad does that mean that the property is very cold? I'm not exactly sure what the BER is if I'm honest!

Thanks

Nope, it really doesn't mean much. It only affects the heating bill. The house value will reflect what type windows it has etc.

My bill is about 650 a year for a f house built in 84.

ted1

Senna wrote: »

I think I would just walk away from a house that is an. F rating, there must be no insulation or even heating system. The price would need to reflect that, but how old is the house? A 100 year old house without moderisation with an F rating is probably normal, a 10 year old house with an F rating is very bad.

Your mad. Most of our existing stock in prime locations are F rated. It's easy to insulate a house, change windows, insulate attic.

To cut out so much if the market is crazy

zef

My mums house is on the market atm and has an F rating.
Its got double glazed windows (installed mid eighties), and ofch throughout. It was built in the 1920s i'd imagine this goes against it , I would never have felt it to be a cold house.

ted1

zef wrote: »

My mums house is on the market atm and has an F rating.
Its got double glazed windows (installed mid eighties), and ofch throughout. It was built in the 1920s i'd imagine this goes against it , I would never have felt it to be a cold house.

OFCH doesn't mean anything, you need to look at the efficency of the boiler. how much kWh does it give out for every kwh of oil put in to it.

Double glazing has become much more efficient since the 80's, you need to look at U value.

MCD.

I wouldn't be entirely put off by it.

My house had a D1 rating when we got it. We re insulated all the internal non party walls with a mix of 85 mm and 100 mm warmboard, put some insulation in the attic and the place is like a sauna now.

All told it game to about 6k including replastering and painting.

The house was 20 years old btw

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

FForget about pumping insulation into the blocks. Least effective and in reality a waste of times.

Pumping the walls in conjunction with an insulated attic & draft proofing can make a huge difference. To say pumping walls is a waste of time is not at all accurate.

pwurple

Ask for a copy of the BER report. You'll get a better idea of where money wouod need to be spent to bring it up to modern standards.

Bear in mind, BER ratings are fairly flimsey to begin with. We got two BERs done within a week, with two different assessors. Two letters of difference betweem them. Only different thing we had done was remove the lightbulbs for the higher one. They make a LOT of assumptions in those.

Whether it affects the value of the house is another question. It depends on the house! If it's a period georgian house in a prime location, then no. The value of that house is not wrapped up in the BER. If it's a new house with solar panels and heat exchangers, then yes, a poor BER would indicate something seriously wrong with it.

ted1

pwurple wrote: »

Ask for a copy of the BER report. You'll get a better idea of where money wouod need to be spent to bring it up to modern standards.

Bear in mind, BER ratings are fairly flimsey to begin with. We got two BERs done within a week, with two different assessors. Two letters of difference betweem them. Only different thing we had done was remove the lightbulbs for the higher one. They make a LOT of assumptions in those.

Whether it affects the value of the house is another question. It depends on the house! If it's a period georgian house in a prime location, then no. The value of that house is not wrapped up in the BER. If it's a new house with solar panels and heat exchangers, then yes, a poor BER would indicate something seriously wrong with it.

I know lots of people who have problems with solar panels and glycol and it chats them a fortune every year to sort out the system, they wish that they never had them as there more expensive

Villa05

Augeo wrote: »

Pumping the walls in conjunction with an insulated attic & draft proofing can make a huge difference. To say pumping walls is a waste of time is not at all accurate.

You have a cavity in the wall to stop moisture going from the outer wall to the inner wall. filling that cavity is not something i would be rushing to do

Villa05

Augeo wrote: »

Pumping the walls in conjunction with an insulated attic & draft proofing can make a huge difference. To say pumping walls is a waste of time is not at all accurate.

You have a cavity in the wall to stop moisture going from the outer wall to the inner wall. filling that cavity is not something i would be rushing to do

cpoh1

Augeo wrote: »

Pumping the walls in conjunction with an insulated attic & draft proofing can make a huge difference. To say pumping walls is a waste of time is not at all accurate.

Pumping walls or cladding the outside of the house should only be completed if you cannot insulate the walls by lining them from the inside.

You still have to heat the walls so nowhere near as efficient!

horsebox7

Hi,

I bought a house 6 months ago. Should I be provided with the BER cert? Who should provide it to me? Has anyone who bought a house received their BER cert and if so who gave it to them?

Thanks

TheDriver

Your solicitor would have requested it and probably has it on file

ted1

horsebox7 wrote: »

Hi,

I bought a house 6 months ago. Should I be provided with the BER cert? Who should provide it to me? Has anyone who bought a house received their BER cert and if so who gave it to them?

Thanks

Look up BER cert in line , using the MPRN from your elec meter you can retrieve it

http://www.bercert.com/bercert/2/index.cfm?ber.cert=lost-ber-cert

Marcusm

cpoh1 wrote: »

Pumping walls or cladding the outside of the house should only be completed if you cannot insulate the walls by lining them from the inside.

You still have to heat the walls so nowhere near as efficient!

Does that not mean that the heated walls allow the temperature to be maintained more easily. Where only the air is heated, it's much quicker/easier to escape and/or cool down.

cpoh1

Marcusm wrote: »

Does that not mean that the heated walls allow the temperature to be maintained more easily. Where only the air is heated, it's much quicker/easier to escape and/or cool down.

Most efficient way to heat a house is to only have to heat the air only (convection in the rads). If heat is escaping inner walls and only being insulated on the outside you are wasting money every day ultimately heating the walls which are poor conductors. They won't disperse heat like you describe.

quietsailor

cpoh1 wrote: »

Most efficient way to heat a house is to only have to heat the air only (convection in the rads). If heat is escaping inner walls and only being insulated on the outside you are wasting money every day ultimately heating the walls which are poor conductors. They won't disperse heat like you describe.

But isn't the idea to create a heat reservoir by using the walls - once they heat up and aren't bleeding heat to the outside they slowly allow heat back into the room - similar to an underfloor heating where it is constant low grade heat

cpoh1

quietsailor wrote: »

But isn't the idea to create a heat reservoir by using the walls - once they heat up and aren't bleeding heat to the outside they slowly allow heat back into the room - similar to an underfloor heating where it is constant low grade heat

No. The cheapest way to heat a house is to only have to heat the air within the rooms, and make sure the air doesn't escape or that you don't have to heat anything additional i.e. walls, both inner and outer. Having poorly insulated inner walls means that heat escapes through to the outer wall and if thats insulated means that you waste energy heating inner walls and cavities until it equalises. Having inner walls insulated means that all your energy is focused on just heating the air with no escape through to cavities and outer walls. Its by far the most effective way to insulate a house. Cavity pumping is the next but as another poster said beware of the reason the cavity is there in the first place! and lastly you have the outer walls. This makes sense from a cost perspective and space restrictions but is not the most energy efficient way to do it. Think of it like a decent thermal clothes layer - you wouldnt put it on last would you?

MicktheMan

cpoh1 wrote: »

No. The cheapest way to heat a house is to only have to heat the air within the rooms, and make sure the air doesn't escape or that you don't have to heat anything additional i.e. walls, both inner and outer. Having poorly insulated inner walls means that heat escapes through to the outer wall and if thats insulated means that you waste energy heating inner walls and cavities until it equalises. Having inner walls insulated means that all your energy is focused on just heating the air with no escape through to cavities and outer walls. Its by far the most effective way to insulate a house. Cavity pumping is the next but as another poster said beware of the reason the cavity is there in the first place! and lastly you have the outer walls. This makes sense from a cost perspective and space restrictions but is not the most energy efficient way to do it. Think of it like a decent thermal clothes layer - you wouldnt put it on last would you?

As you seem to be recommending internal insulation as the best method, would you care to comment on the following:
Thermal bridging at junctions and mould growth risk
Location of dew point in the wall, interstitial condensation and mould growth risk
IAQ and ventilation requirements

cpoh1

MicktheMan wrote: »

As you seem to be recommending internal insulation as the best method, would you care to comment on the following:
Thermal bridging at junctions and mould growth risk
Location of dew point in the wall, interstitial condensation and mould growth risk
IAQ and ventilation requirements

The key assumption here is that you have a moisture free room with decent ventillation to begin with, and when installing to ensure thermal bridging is minimised between internal walls and external to windows etc. With thermal bridging as you well know it is virtually impossible to fully eliminate and still relevant for external insulation also.

Due point is crucial and you run the risk of moving the walls dew point to the inner part of the wall making damp and mould growth worse. So yes also a concern, I would recommend talking to an expert and not to undergo any DIY efforts!

Inner wall lining is not suitable for houses houses that suffer rising damp and condensation issues.

bovril

The online ad for the house will sometimes include the BER number. With this you can go to the link in ted1's post above and read the report for yourself. The BER score can be negatively affected by simple things like not having energy efficient light bulbs and also for older white goods that are not efficient as well as more costly things like insulation etc. Any BER report I have read includes solutions to some of the problems. You can then judge whether you want to or need to undertake more costly suggestions. Some things are a quick win (like the lightbulbs). I read in one of the newspapers that 1 out of 10 people read the BER reports for houses they are planning on buying. Going by this statistic I doubt a low rating would impact much on the selling price of the house.