Japan and Singapore tender for Super Rugby

LeinsterDub

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9383801,00.html


Surely this an expansion too far. Across seasons and time zones into markets with great potential but how do you tap the potential. How do you make the 34 hour trip from Tokyo to Buenos Aires more than once a year?

The Lost Sheep

SH big 3 need expansion into Asian market for the €€€€s as South Africa brings in big bucks but Australia and New Zealand for different reasons don't.
Tap potential by getting more top class games with top players up there. Build support base for some/all teams in super rugby rather than New Zealanders etc going up to play at end of career.

stephen_n

Would this not be a case of Turkey's voting for xmas? surely to facilitate expansion into those markets, they would need to get rid of existing franchises? Also with the money in Japan it would rapidly end up being like the French teams in Europe, dominating by financial strength?

LeinsterDub

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

SH big 3 need expansion into Asian market for the €€€€s as South Africa brings in big bucks but Australia and New Zealand for different reasons don't.
Tap potential by getting more top class games with top players up there. Build support base for some/all teams in super rugby rather than New Zealanders etc going up to play at end of career.

I understand the reasoning behind it . I just don't understand the logistics of it . Lions v The Baas springs to mind

Podge_irl

Super Rugby is expanding so no team needs replacing. It's idiotic to expand it really in my mind, but SA want a 6th team desperately.

Japanese rugby still has some fairly strict rules on number of foreigners allowed. I assume they'll relax it for any Super Rugby team but unless it's 100% foreigners (which would be pointless) they they certainly won't dominate.

CatFromHue

I did not know Singapore played rugby tbh.

To me it's a no brainer that Japan should be looked on more favourably.

I think the new Arg and Japan/Singapore will end up being based in SA than in their home countries.

Pulver says that he has backed a format with 18 teams in a four conference format from 2016.

There are currently 15 teams divided into three equal geographic conferences made up of five teams.

Pulver says that from 2016 the New Zealand and Australian conference will remain at five teams but South Africa will have two conference of four teams.

South Africa currently have five teams and the Southern Kings, and a new Argentine team and another side - possibly from Asia - will be added to make eight teams.

These eight teams will be divided in two two groups of four and are expected to be based in South Africa.

http://www.superxv.com/42364/1/plans-for-super-rugbys-expansion-revealed#.U8Z56fldVgg

LeinsterDub

stephen_n wrote: »

Would this not be a case of Turkey's voting for xmas? surely to facilitate expansion into those markets, they would need to get rid of existing franchises? Also with the money in Japan it would rapidly end up being like the French teams in Europe, dominating by financial strength?

Nope planning to expand to 18 . SA +1 , Argentina , Asia .

LeinsterDub

Some interesting comment
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/snouts-in-trough-rugby-as-pacific-nations-continue-to-be-left-in-the-hinterland.24698290

However, it is the identity of the 18th team which has really set tongues wagging. At the front of the queue, I kid you not, is Singapore. Now I've nothing against the place but, when you are 58th in the world rankings, languishing behind such notable non-rugby superpowers as Sweden, Lithuania and the Cayman Islands, your entitlement to be part of one of the planet's leading competitions is less than obvious. What is clear, though, is that underlying rugby strength is no longer part of the equation.

http://www.espn.co.uk/super-rugby-2014/rugby/story/232253.html

Jones, a former Brumbies and Australia coach, wrote in his weekly column for News Corp that it was "a joke that Singapore is even being considered as the base for the 18th Super Rugby team when Japan ticks all the right boxes for forward thinking".

Larbre34

Its a nonsense, if people have money to invest in Asia they should concentrate on a professional competition for Asia. Entering Super Rugby will do nothing to join up the club activity in Asia with improved test teams.

justsomebloke

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its a nonsense, if people have money to invest in Asia they should concentrate on a professional competition for Asia. Entering Super Rugby will do nothing to join up the club activity in Asia with improved test teams.

Truthfully I doubt any of the SANZAR partners give a hoot about improving the test teams. This is purely about the money it could bring in to them.

former legend

This is making my head hurt.

They're going to invent a team in either Japan or Singapore, then make them play in the South African conference.

Somebody needs to buy these idiots an atlas, point out the geography and time zones of Singapore and Japan, then batter them over the head with the atlas until they agree that the entire idea is ridiculous.

CatFromHue

Japan or Singapore would be more favourable than NZ for SA time.

It's now
17:57 (wed) in Jo'Burg
00:57 (thurs) in Tokyo
01:57 (thurs) in Melbourne
03:57 (thurs) in Wellington

My understanding is that the new teams would be based in SA though, and not in their home countries.

LeinsterDub

CatFromHue wrote: »

My understanding is that the new teams would be based in SA though, and not in their home countries.

In what way are they a Japanese team then? Back by the JRU? A handful of Japanese players? Who is going to support this team in SA? The mind boggles

CatFromHue

I have to say I don't know and I'm not sure if the organizers now either.

stephen_n

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Nope planning to expand to 18 . SA +1 , Argentina , Asia .

34 games a season, that's going to mean expanded squads.

CIARAN_BOYLE

former legend wrote: »

This is making my head hurt.

They're going to invent a team in either Japan or Singapore, then make them play in the South African conference.

Somebody needs to buy these idiots an atlas, point out the geography and time zones of Singapore and Japan, then batter them over the head with the atlas until they agree that the entire idea is ridiculous.

why are the asian team playing in the south african conference.

The new sa team is playing there. Are we really going to have 7 teams in SA and argentina in australia or new zealand.

The Lost Sheep

stephen_n wrote: »

34 games a season, that's going to mean expanded squads.

Teams wont have 34 games. They have barely over half that at the moment.

CatFromHue

No, the NZ and OZ conferences will stay the same.

There's currently 5 SA teams and the Kings who aren't in the SuperXV anymore. Two completely new teams are going to be created one of which will be Argentinian and the other either Japanese or Singaporean.

There going to create two new conferences of 4 teams in SA which will be made up of the 6 SA teams plus the Arg team and the Japanese/Singaporean team.

The playing schedule for each team is fairly mad too lol but each team will end up with I think the same amount of games as teams play now!!

LeinsterDub

stephen_n wrote: »

34 games a season, that's going to mean expanded squads.

They don't play each other 2 twice it's 15 regular season games and play off . 1 less than currently

stephen_n

LeinsterDub wrote: »

They don't play each other 2 twice it's 15 regular season games and play off . 1 less than currently

Oh right, didn't realise that, assumed it was on home and away basis. Make more sense in terms of the Japanese team playing out of SA then.

matthew8

Logistics never seemed to play a part in the super rugby thought process. It's already a bit crazy having teams travelling between SA and Aus/NZ so frequently, especially in the playoffs (the last 2 years a very jetlagged team has shown up to lose to the Chiefs in the final after 2 trips over the Indian ocean in 2 weeks). And basing a Japan/Singapore team out of SA, I don't know what to say to that. They'll be playing in front of empty stadiums.

LeinsterDub

After several attempts I think I've figured out the convoluted fixtures . Correct me if I'm wrong

A Australian club plays the NZ clubs once for 5 games and a SA conference once for 4 games , their fellow Aussies once for 4 and finally 2 of the fellow Aussies again for 15

A SA club plays Australian/NZ once for 5 ,the other SA conference once for 4 and their own conference twice for 6 for a total of 15 ?

CatFromHue

No, I don't think that's right.

The Waratahs have played each of the other Oz teams home and away (8 games in total).
Four games (2 home and 2 away) against Sa teams
Four games (2 home and 2 away) against Nz teams.

They haven't played the Crusaders or the Cheetahs at all.

It's not really a proper league as such in that you don't play all the teams.

LeinsterDub

CatFromHue wrote: »

No, I don't think that's right.

The Waratahs have played each of the other Oz teams home and away (8 games in total).
Four games (2 home and 2 away) against Sa teams
Four games (2 home and 2 away) against Nz teams.

They haven't played the Crusaders or the Cheetahs at all.

It's not really a proper league as such in that you don't play all the teams.

That's the current mad fixtures structure. The above is the new mad fixture structure for the 18 team league

CatFromHue

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That's the current mad fixtures structure. The above is the new mad fixture structure for the 18 team league

It really is a real life game of Quizzlestick!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfgRGW9Ghik

It's simple really

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjOZtWZ56lc

thebaz

I think it would be great to have a Japanese team in it - there seams to be a lot of interest in the game , but have made little progress over the years , they are hindered by size , but something like this might help them progress to being able to compete internationally.

sydneybound

I know people are generally against this move for logistical reasons however do people on here not see any benefits of this expansion?

Would it not expose several Japan/Singapore players to a much higher standard thus improving their national teams somewhat? Maybe these two new teams will garnish more support for the game in their respected countries thus attracting more players to their domestic leagues.

Just saying a thought out loud, I'm sure I'll get shot down! ;-)

The Lost Sheep

sydneybound wrote: »

I know people are generally against this move for logistical reasons however do people on here not see any benefits of this expansion?

Would it not expose several Japan/Singapore players to a much higher standard thus improving their national teams somewhat? Maybe these two new teams will garnish more support for the game in their respected countries thus attracting more players to their domestic leagues.

Just saying a thought out loud, I'm sure I'll get shot down! ;-)

What Singapore players though? There would be a few quite decent Japanese players(several of highest try scorers in international rugby are Japanese) but not really that many and these sides will be virtually all Oz/NZrs and its to get crowds/tv etc for Super Rugby.
There already is significant crowds and support in Japan and expansion to these two markets is for financial reasons much much more than rugby of Japan/Singapore improving.
If expansion primarily had islanders playing for these sides then I would be ok with it as it would really aid Fiji etc to have sides in top level competition where players are virtually all islanders and having a base in Japan would be more financially sound than on one of the islands

19543261

Silly logistics aside, it'd be ludicrous if Japan dont get this. Laughable, even-- I'm sorry, Singapore who?

CatFromHue

sydneybound wrote: »

I know people are generally against this move for logistical reasons however do people on here not see any benefits of this expansion?

Would it not expose several Japan/Singapore players to a much higher standard thus improving their national teams somewhat? Maybe these two new teams will garnish more support for the game in their respected countries thus attracting more players to their domestic leagues.

Just saying a thought out loud, I'm sure I'll get shot down! ;-)

It'll be good for Japan/Singapore (though I really hope Japan) to have a team in the SuperXVIII but will it be good for the league to have them in it?

The SuperXV as it is isn't really a league as teams don't play each other home and away, or sometimes not at all, so by introducing more teams how will that benefit the league?

My understanding is that the Arg team and the other new team will be based in SA so where will their home support come from? They'll more than likely be playing in front of empty stadiums which is a major turnoff!

Podge_irl

It wouldn't be good for Singapore to have a team in the SuperXVIII, it would be completely pointless.