Waiting for someone to catch up?

Penny_Lane

I've been with my partner for 4 years now and am having a bit of a crisis when it comes to his job. I’m not living in Ireland and met him in a temp job when I first got here. We hit it off straight away and fell pretty hard for each other and were inseparable for the first year I had never felt love quite like it and felt I’d won the lottery with him! But it’s become increasingly difficult for the last 2 years and I’m not sure if I’m being a push over so wanted some outside perspective. I’ll just say upfront I am still madly in love with him that is why this decision is so difficult.

My issue is that he has been struggling with getting started with his career since our 2nd year together. He wants to get into the creative industry but is struggling so much. He was working on his portfolio since our 2nd year together, the 3rd year his contract ended and he decided to work full-time on his portfolio and took a loan from a family member. After the year he applied to 1 company….the best in this city and he was rejected as he had no experience and they had a lot of comments about his work not being good enough. So he was devastated and kind of lost faith in the idea for a while and ended up getting another ‘filler’ job. He hates this job but really likes his colleagues. So he is continuing his portfolio in a different direction but again I feel is working painfully slow. I also work in a creative field and find it so frustrating watching how he works and have tried to help and guide him a bit but he still does things his own way, ignores criticism and doesn't seem to realise just how hard it is to find a job in this field it takes so much work.

Where I am now is that I am the main earner, he does pay his share of bills and about 30% of the groceries but after almost 3 years of this kind of set up I am at breaking point. I just turned 30 (and he will soon too) and had expectations to be moving into a new chapter in my life now ie. Getting married and starting a family and moving into a bigger home ( we live in a matchbox!) so I am feeling like I always have to drag him along. Aside from the career aspect he is really a genuine kind person, very loving with so many similar interests, his family is like a 2nd family to me. But right now I feel on a completely different page to him.

I tried 2 nights ago to tell him just how upset I am with our situation, that I thought I would be in a different place now and feel held back and scared I will lose the chance to have a family and get the things I feel are important to me in life because he is stuck in this limbo that feels like there is no end. He was pretty shocked I felt this way as he said he saw us growing old together. My thing is obviously it is important to me to reach these mile stones in life but am I being unfair trying to put a timeline on us? I know in the economy right now most people are lucky to have a job and I also know not everyone ‘finds’ their career easily.

I am willing to see if things improve within the next year and to me that means he gets a full-time job (in anything that makes him happy) and we can be a normal couple again ie. going out sharing the cost of things and planning our future rather than being in some limbo!! My closest friend tells me I am making a mistake waiting for him and he is not marriage or father material but I obviously see how he is with his nieces and how caring he is so I don’t believe her but also am afraid I am burying my head in the sand. So what do you think? Would you wait and let it pan out and take the risk on an otherwise great relationship my fear is in a year I’ll feel the same and keep waiting and waiting and in the end will be miserable or if he can pull it together it will be so worth it. I considered moving out by the end of the year (completely not what I want to do as it will kill me) but just so he knows how much I want him to get his act together and maybe also allows him some time to sort himself out…..

LegacyUser

I can understand how you feel at the moment.
I am going to be very honest here your boyfriend sounds both immature and selfish.
He is working in a dead end job and is preparing his portfolio for the past 2 years. He made one job application in the creative area which he did not get. He won't listen to your advice, ignores criticism and he seems to have no idea how hard it is to get work in the creative industry.

Your now 30 years old. Your the main wage earner and are paying most of the bills. You have been doing this for almost 3 years and meanwhile he is still in a dead end job, using your money to pay his bills and still thinks he will get a creative job.
Your friends know that you are unhappy. They have told you they don't see him as marriage or father material which no friend wants to say but they are giving you good advice.

After 3 years of you supporting him he should know that it is time for him to get a decent job and not to be wasting time preparing a portfolio for a job which may never happen for him. He can no longer expect you to put your life on hold for him. He seems totally unwilling or unable to make the changes you both need to so your lives together can move on.

At this stage I would tell him that you have decided to end your relationship. I would then say to him I am 30 and I want to get married and have children in the next few years. I would then say to him after supporting you for the past 3 years I now see that you are unwilling or unable to make any changes for me.

You have wasted enough time and money on him. Your 30 and if you want to met another man and have a family you have to end things with him now. I know several woman who ended relationships like yours that were going no where. They met men who wanted marriage, children and who did not see them just as a cash machine to pay the bills.

LegacyUser

OP I hate to say this but it seems like your boyfriend isn't cut out for work in a creative field, I don't know what area he wants to work in but getting a loan to spend a whole year working on his portfolio is madness, it shouldn't take that long. He'd have been far better working for free for the year, 6 months even, I know internships are hit and miss but experience is essential and would give him real life work for his portfolio.

He also absolutely has to be able to take criticism, getting told you're **** repeatedly and picking yourself up is par for the course, if he can't handle that then he's at nothing.

Also depending on the creative industry, I'm in one myself, there comes a moment where you may realise (as I have) that a lot of areas are so poorly paid that you have to decide if there's a point in staying in it, a lot of areas are just not conductive to having kids home, grown up life, they are young people's jobs, and unless you manage to make it to a senior position realitively young, you will always be living week to week.

I'm not sure how you bring this up with him though to be honest, if you're blunt (which is probably what he needs to hear, I suspect he has the fantasy arty career built up in his head) you'll come across as if you're knocking his dream, and he may resent you if he doesn't follow it.

Perhaps it would be better to delicately discuss the time frame he gives the creative job search before he agrees to pack it in? At least then if nothing has changed by that time frame or he's still insisting non chasing the dream you can cut your loses and end things.

Is the industry you work in related to his? Do you know any senior people who could directly tell him the realities of the job and if he is actually cut out for it/has any talent?

I also see no reason why he can't be in a full time job and still work on his portfolio in his spare time and apply for jobs. That would be the crux of the issue for me, if he isn't prepared to work damn hard to follow his dream job and by the sounds of things instead is just wait for it to be handed to him on a plate then he's living in fantasy land, and that would seriously make me think long and hard if he can, or will ever be willing to give you the future you want or if relationship is a waste of time.

strobe

If the situation was reversed OP, he had gotten his foot in in the career and you had not, would you like him to be constantly nipping at your heals?


In lot's of couples one earns more than the other and supports the other until the other one can 'catch up'... ...

Merkin

Penny_Lane wrote: »

I tried 2 nights ago to tell him just how upset I am with our situation, that I thought I would be in a different place now and feel held back and scared I will lose the chance to have a family and get the things I feel are important to me in life because he is stuck in this limbo that feels like there is no end. He was pretty shocked I felt this way as he said he saw us growing old together. My thing is obviously it is important to me to reach these mile stones in life but am I being unfair trying to put a timeline on us? I know in the economy right now most people are lucky to have a job and I also know not everyone ‘finds’ their career easily.

I am willing to see if things improve within the next year and to me that means he gets a full-time job (in anything that makes him happy) and we can be a normal couple again ie. going out sharing the cost of things and planning our future rather than being in some limbo!!.

Is the bit in bold a unilateral decision or one that has been agreed upon by both of you with clearly defined ambitions and timelines? Because I think if you're just waiting to see how things pan out then you're wasting your time. He doesn't seem to have that firm a grip on reality. I don't know anyone in the creative space who takes that long to complete a portfolio and then applies for ONE job And furthermore to completely reject criticism. If you want to build a future with him then you need to have another very open and possibly painful conversation to establish if you really are singing off the same hymn sheet and what you both expect from one another when it comes to marriage, kids and the responsibilities that come with that.

Lou.m

This is pretty personal for me. I am a creative person. I have always dated creative people.

I don't think I would break up with a guy or give him an ultimatum because he did not make enough money.

You knew this was who he was when you met him.

I mean using his financial status as a reason to break up when he seems to have many other qualities seems to be about having the wrong priorities. What if he found the perfect full time job that he loved but it paid pittance?

Ok so maybe you should not live together if he cannot contribute.

I have often worried about the future creative and financial balance for myself.

I guess if a guy was worried about me for instance 'catching up' I guess I would have to understand and let him grow in the way he needed to I would not want to hold him back.

You have definitely made me think. Most of my social group would actually be like your boyfriend OP. So i guess I never saw it as odd a guy would be like that.

You have definitely given me food for thought.


I worked hard to get myself out of debt because straight after my degree I went into a grossly overpriced drama school . Debt us weird ...it's like snakes and ladders ..tough to climb up and easy to slide down. I was over ten grand in debt and it took ages to clear. I did though and cleared it. My little battle! He will have to clear his debt. It taught me I am tough.

I know many in the creative industries who are up to their ears in debt. Some are good friends. There is something of a prolonged sophomoric existence.

But my creativity is important to me. I need it. Yes at the mo I do ****ty work for pittance and its not creative. But well I am not hurting anyone.

I know that you have a right to your needs too OP.

I guess I have always been with guys who were artsy and broke.

You may both have to adjust you ideas of the future.

Not just him but you too.


If I was in YOUR position OP I would want to support my partners goals (but I am not saying that is what you should do you have a right to your needs).

If i was in your partners position I would not want to hold you back. Infact that would hurt me too. Not sure I would give up my needs though.

Is it possible you could compromise?

I know lots of broke artsy couples. Or low income ones anyway. A couple even have become parents not sure how they do it. It probably stressful ...not sure if it is fair for a kid. I am certain also it is why some people I know have married but not had kids. Which is fine.

Little warning OP. At this stage in life he is who he is. And the thing is he sounds like a nice person. It might be though that your ideas of the future are very different.

If i were him I would be thinking the most loving thing I could do would be to let you go if I felt I was holding you back.

Lou.m

I guess what I am saying is if i was your partner I would not want to be holding you back.

I would never want to be a financial burden to anyone nor stopping them from enjoying life or their path.

He may never be able to match your earning potential.

There are some areas about which no one really gets unless you are in them. Creativity is one.

It is possibly my greatest fear that someone turns around and says 'hey you are living in a dream world and its pathetic'.


It tends to happen that you end up having friends you live like you and 'get it'. I think it feels easier.

If someone was ahead of me in their journey and I loved them I would want them to go all the way. And I would not want to hold them back.

I would not want their friends to be saying 'your partner holds you back or is not marriage material'. I would want to feel I was able to give them something unique and special and what they needed and if I couldn't I think that would hurt more than anything. I think then I would realize what the right thing to do was.

diveout

Penny_Lane wrote: »

I've been with my partner for 4 years now and am having a bit of a crisis when it comes to his job. I’m not living in Ireland and met him in a temp job when I first got here. We hit it off straight away and fell pretty hard for each other and were inseparable for the first year I had never felt love quite like it and felt I’d won the lottery with him! But it’s become increasingly difficult for the last 2 years and I’m not sure if I’m being a push over so wanted some outside perspective. I’ll just say upfront I am still madly in love with him that is why this decision is so difficult.

My issue is that he has been struggling with getting started with his career since our 2nd year together. He wants to get into the creative industry but is struggling so much. He was working on his portfolio since our 2nd year together, the 3rd year his contract ended and he decided to work full-time on his portfolio and took a loan from a family member. After the year he applied to 1 company….the best in this city and he was rejected as he had no experience and they had a lot of comments about his work not being good enough. So he was devastated and kind of lost faith in the idea for a while and ended up getting another ‘filler’ job. He hates this job but really likes his colleagues. So he is continuing his portfolio in a different direction but again I feel is working painfully slow. I also work in a creative field and find it so frustrating watching how he works and have tried to help and guide him a bit but he still does things his own way, ignores criticism and doesn't seem to realise just how hard it is to find a job in this field it takes so much work.

Where I am now is that I am the main earner, he does pay his share of bills and about 30% of the groceries but after almost 3 years of this kind of set up I am at breaking point. I just turned 30 (and he will soon too) and had expectations to be moving into a new chapter in my life now ie. Getting married and starting a family and moving into a bigger home ( we live in a matchbox!) so I am feeling like I always have to drag him along. Aside from the career aspect he is really a genuine kind person, very loving with so many similar interests, his family is like a 2nd family to me. But right now I feel on a completely different page to him.

I tried 2 nights ago to tell him just how upset I am with our situation, that I thought I would be in a different place now and feel held back and scared I will lose the chance to have a family and get the things I feel are important to me in life because he is stuck in this limbo that feels like there is no end. He was pretty shocked I felt this way as he said he saw us growing old together. My thing is obviously it is important to me to reach these mile stones in life but am I being unfair trying to put a timeline on us? I know in the economy right now most people are lucky to have a job and I also know not everyone ‘finds’ their career easily.

I am willing to see if things improve within the next year and to me that means he gets a full-time job (in anything that makes him happy) and we can be a normal couple again ie. going out sharing the cost of things and planning our future rather than being in some limbo!! My closest friend tells me I am making a mistake waiting for him and he is not marriage or father material but I obviously see how he is with his nieces and how caring he is so I don’t believe her but also am afraid I am burying my head in the sand. So what do you think? Would you wait and let it pan out and take the risk on an otherwise great relationship my fear is in a year I’ll feel the same and keep waiting and waiting and in the end will be miserable or if he can pull it together it will be so worth it. I considered moving out by the end of the year (completely not what I want to do as it will kill me) but just so he knows how much I want him to get his act together and maybe also allows him some time to sort himself out…..

WHen you work in the creative fields, or are with someone who does, you just have to accept a certain amount of volatility. That is its nature.

If he is paying half the bills and 30% of the groceries... that doesn't seem that much of a disparity for someone you feel you hit the lottery with either. A lot of couples have financial imbalances at play. Work around it so the resentment doesn't build.

He is a kind and loving person, seems like good father and husband material. There are lots of strong providers who hardly ever see the very people they are providing for.

True, maybe he doesn't actually realise how much hard work it is to get a job in that field. So can you help him realise?

thegreatgonzo

What I'm getting from this is that you don't believe he has what it takes to be successful in the art world and that your current situation will never change. It isn't a nice thought to imagine living with someone who is a bitter that their career never took off but who would never listen to constructive criticism that might have helped them. Is it fair to say that you'd put up with the tiny apartment and lack of spending money if you genuinely thought he would be successful? Are you afraid of hurting his feelings?

Lou.m

I can understand both points.

I would worry my choice to be creative might mean I was in the OP's partners position but either I would let the OP go or maybe look at my life. But I would not keep someone hanging on.

I have not been as far career wise as the OP nor anywhere near relationship wise. But I know what it is like to be with someone with less to spend etc. And in debt. My debt was from a loan company not a family member which I think is better. I know people who have taken loans from family. It tends to give a power imbalance in what should be an adult relationship.

If he doing more housework and trying to contribute to your life? You are the female have you ended up doing both jobs?

How does he think it will work if you have kids?

Most of my friends are artsy or eternal students. It can be a sort of bubble and when your self esteem is low you retreat.


I have not been as far in career or relationship as the OP but I have been in your position vaguely but I also see myself as your BF in a way.

I think though paying the loan back might give himself an outlook on money it would be better if he had taken it from a bank though not family. That seems
too comfy. He is not as responsible for it.

Could he be the homemaker? Or did you want that? Also if he is ambitious in his field he needs to master what he does and learn.


I don't think you are selfish for thinking this op. It is really up to you.

I don't know myself.

Addle

What has being 'creative' got to do with it really?
If he was in a low paying job, that was perhaps seasonal, would it make a difference?

CaraMay

It sounds like you want him to earn more than you so you can have the big wedding and kids?

diveout

Lou.m wrote: »

Most of my friends are artsy or eternal students. It can be a sort of bubble and when your self esteem is low you retreat.


.

There are a lot of creative people out there who don't fully accept THIS IS A JOB and takes discipline like any other job. Everything is business. It's hard to watch your rawest feelings and imagination transformed into a product at market, but that is the tough old truth of it.

Artists put themselves on the line. They have to be able to sustain relentless long term rejection, over and over and over again. And to some extent it is a lottery they are playing.

They can't afford low self esteem. Low self esteem is career suicide because they have to both rely on their vulnerability for their work or product and also because they have to sustain so much rejection. A kind of narcissicm can develop, but they need it to survive.

I know artists who live like monks. They are up at 6 am studying and working, eating pasta regularly, sweating for gigs, work through weekends, and sustain egos as impenetrable as Fort Knox. And this is the other side of that.

If you want to be with an artist, be prepared for a challenging life. But one that could also be incredibly rewarding and exhilirating. That is just how it is. You want a bourgoise life with 2.4 kids, a picket fence, and down the road from a Volvo dealership, hook up with a Swiss banker.

mrty

Penny_Lane wrote: »

I've been with my partner for 4 years now and am having a bit of a crisis when it comes to his job. I’m not living in Ireland and met him in a temp job when I first got here. We hit it off straight away and fell pretty hard for each other and were inseparable for the first year I had never felt love quite like it and felt I’d won the lottery with him! But it’s become increasingly difficult for the last 2 years and I’m not sure if I’m being a push over so wanted some outside perspective. I’ll just say upfront I am still madly in love with him that is why this decision is so difficult.

My issue is that he has been struggling with getting started with his career since our 2nd year together. He wants to get into the creative industry but is struggling so much. He was working on his portfolio since our 2nd year together, the 3rd year his contract ended and he decided to work full-time on his portfolio and took a loan from a family member. After the year he applied to 1 company….the best in this city and he was rejected as he had no experience and they had a lot of comments about his work not being good enough. So he was devastated and kind of lost faith in the idea for a while and ended up getting another ‘filler’ job. He hates this job but really likes his colleagues. So he is continuing his portfolio in a different direction but again I feel is working painfully slow. I also work in a creative field and find it so frustrating watching how he works and have tried to help and guide him a bit but he still does things his own way, ignores criticism and doesn't seem to realise just how hard it is to find a job in this field it takes so much work.

Where I am now is that I am the main earner, he does pay his share of bills and about 30% of the groceries but after almost 3 years of this kind of set up I am at breaking point. I just turned 30 (and he will soon too) and had expectations to be moving into a new chapter in my life now ie. Getting married and starting a family and moving into a bigger home ( we live in a matchbox!) so I am feeling like I always have to drag him along. Aside from the career aspect he is really a genuine kind person, very loving with so many similar interests, his family is like a 2nd family to me. But right now I feel on a completely different page to him.

I tried 2 nights ago to tell him just how upset I am with our situation, that I thought I would be in a different place now and feel held back and scared I will lose the chance to have a family and get the things I feel are important to me in life because he is stuck in this limbo that feels like there is no end. He was pretty shocked I felt this way as he said he saw us growing old together. My thing is obviously it is important to me to reach these mile stones in life but am I being unfair trying to put a timeline on us? I know in the economy right now most people are lucky to have a job and I also know not everyone ‘finds’ their career easily.

I am willing to see if things improve within the next year and to me that means he gets a full-time job (in anything that makes him happy) and we can be a normal couple again ie. going out sharing the cost of things and planning our future rather than being in some limbo!! My closest friend tells me I am making a mistake waiting for him and he is not marriage or father material but I obviously lsee how he is with his nieces and how caring he is so I don’t believe her but also am afraid I am burying my head in the sand. So what do you think? Would you wait and let it pan out and take the risk on an otherwise great relationship my fear is in a year I’ll feel the same and keep waiting and waiting and in the end will be miserable or if he can pull it together it will be so worth it. I considered moving out by the end of the year (completely not what I want to do as it will kill me) but just so he knows how much I want him to get his act together and maybe also allows him some time to sort himself out…..

Sounds like you want a business partner not a husband, my god, so cold. Is your friend a robot by any chance. What ever happened to loving someone for who they are not what's in their pocket. Why don't you just go find someone wealthy problem solved. Sounds to me he's a good decent fella I wouldn't be to quick to take that for granted.

Lou.m

OK so you might not live the most materialistic life.

Did you ever think the reason he IS so nice is he is not materialistic. He has the values he has because of who he is. If he was more money ambitious you might not like him.

I'll never make money like a banker because I don't think like one. You like all the qualities that make him gentle and nice. But these are also the qualities that would make him a terrible banker. I am sure not all bankers are bad people but ambitious people are a breed apart. Some people are attracted to that personality type. But it has it's drawbacks. You are trying to change him and not necessarily in a positive way and not for him but for your desires.

I would rather see people be doing something they love. If someone said to me 'I've fallen for you and I want to marry you for all your good qualities now please change so you meet my standards' I would be confused and hurt. If I changed they would probably no longer want me. I would think rather than change me should they look for someone else. No one is perfect.

Think about if you should be together .....rather than try to change what is him and good about him would it not be better to find someone else.

You describe fairytale love and passion....could you feel that for the person you are trying to make him be? It takes a dreamer for that. I dunno if I have really had that fairytale dream love, but we all dream of it no?

So your prince did not come in your imagined package but he sounds all heart.

Go with your feelings in the end. I would be hurt if i felt I was considered not good enough so no wonder he is. If he is sensitive to criticism he might have tender self esteem. I am not saying tip toe around it. But it sounds like your love is conditional. Whether he be a banker or an artist your love should be unconditional through good and bad and for him and who he is.

I do get that loving a family means support and responsibility I do but I think the ultimatum does sound cold. I think if I felt I was holding someone back I would feel I let them find what they needed.

rcarroll

OP I think you're getting unfair criticism for expressing concern about your future. You're perfectly entitled to express your concerns and don't apologise for that.

Honestly, I think you're taking a realistic approach and questioning whether your partner can continue the next part of the journey with you. I have to say it's a brave thing and I know how unpleasant it feels as a loving partner to have to think about these things, but as a woman, with desires to start a family, it needs to be done.

As much as people might say 'you should love him for who he is, support the person he is'....well, money is a factor and you have your dreams too. I was in a creative industry and I gave it up - why? Because I realised the chances of making it are so so slim that I felt I was throwing my life away chasing it. Look, we've been told that you should follow your dreams, but I don't think it's fair if it's holding you or your partner back. He's given it a fair shot, why can't he pursue his creative side as a hobby instead of a career?

If with the situation you have now, you realistically can't look at having a family and fulfilling your ambitions (btw - I suggest honestly looking and maybe accepting you'll be the breadwinner)...then for him to pursue his dream while you can't is selfish.

Penny_Lane

OP Here!

Thank you guys for your feedback, it's always hard to hear things you don't want to sometimes but the opinions you guys have given me have helped me look from all angles at this. It was tough couple of days and we have talked pretty much every day about it and about us. I really freaked out last week and was questioning everything but after talking it out we have much more clarity.

It's funny I feel guilty for wanting more and by more I just mean the idea of us being a family, having enough space to accommodate that and being able to go out once in awhile but I have always been a strong believer in finding the right person as jobs come and go. I think one of my co-workers has been telling me daily I need to dump him which is of course her opinion but when my best friend said it I really started to doubt myself and us.

But after this week I know more and ever we will stick it out, yes it's funny I never thought of myself as the bread winner...and in no way did I assume someone would 'take care of me' or anything but I really have been supporting us for 3 years without us ever really deciding it. But after talking to him I see all he needs is an amazing support system to help him overcome his struggles and I think it's true to say he does have esteem issues and I worry how he'll cope out there but he is tough and will learn I am sure.

We spoke about kids and when we both want them which is funny as we are actually on the same page and said within the next 2 - 3 years we'll start as for marriage I think it's not as important for him he doesn't really prioritise it and as much as I would like to be an 'official' couple I see weddings as a waste of money and always pictured registry and family party which I told him and he says he would like it too but he can't think about it right now until he sorts out his job. So my wishes are out there but I have decided I'll stick with him with as genuinely he is such a great person. It's so hard to take a look at your relationship and question it but I know this is just a tough time and there will be more to come so we have to learn to deal with it. As I am also in a creative field I know nothing is certain for me either. I think what I have taken so far from this thread is to look at my expectations more realistically for our situation, I think as most of our friends and family are quite successful it's hard to feel like this artsy couple off on our own little tangent who can't do the things they are doing but I know our happiness is more important than those things....

Big Bag of Chips

OP, it is good that you have talked this out. The one piece of advice I would give you is be careful how much you tell your friends/work colleagues about him. They are not part of your relationship, so the only impression they get of your relationship is what you tell them. So if you tell them the bad, and they never see the small intimate things that make you a great couple then they are only going to think bad of him, and worry about you or think you're an idiot for putting up with him.

So long after you've worked out your problems and decided you both love each other and are actually working towards the same goal, your friends are in the back ground thinking... He's just a bum, who's bumming off her, taking advantage, no intention of ever getting a "proper job" etc.

And even though you've moved on, your friends take longer to.. Or may never.

diveout

^ !!!!

Take heed to BBOCs words OP. Your friends are great to chat too and all, but unbeknownst to themselves, they all have their own agendas. And they are missing the very important part of things: how you feel around him, they don't love him so they have no investment in the loss.

Another thing to remember, and this is a hard one, is we all have ideals casting shadows over our lives, just be mindful of that.