Living with a martyr.

LegacyUser

I've had to move back home very recently because my Dad died, my brother moved back home from abroad as well because we didn't want our Mam living alone, she doesn't want to live alone either. (House is huge, rural and remote.)

Our Dad was 60 and she is 57, the death was sudden and completely unexpected so nobody prepared for this situation.

I've no issue with moving back home, it definitely feels like the right thing to do, but the problem is my mother is a total martyr. We have never got on, since I was a small child. Dealing with her makes me feel like I'm losing my mind, and it's often hard to keep my cool with her.

You need to be psychic to get along with her. When she goes out of the house for a few hours or even a few days, she will list off a million things for me to do. I'll do them, (no issue, don't mind) But when she comes back, the very first thing out of her mouth, and I literally mean the very first thing, before she even says hello, is; 'why didn't you do this, why did you put that there??'

She'll pull into the yard, and before you know it she is in the kitchen with an arm full of shopping bags, giving out because nobody is rushing out to help her carry them in. Even though you were upstairs/on the phone/in the shower, etc, and had no idea she needed help.

And it's like that for every little thing.

I just can't take it anymore, and I realise now I'm ranting so I'll stop.

I don't know if I should move out or not, I was living on the other side of the country with my fiancee, it was pure and utter bliss, no stress, making plans. Home life was harmonious. If I put the salt shaker back in the wrong press, nobody wrecked my head for 10mins about it.

I had been working for my Dads company, which we are now in the middle of liquidating, so I have no job at the moment that is tying me to one place or the other.

And I was able to get on with my mother a lot better when there was some distance and I only saw her once every few weeks. But she wants us (brother & I) to live here for approx 2 years, until the dust settles.

Don't know where to go or what to do! I love my mother but I definitely don't like my mother, if that makes sense!

R.D. aka MR.D

Aren't you playing the martyr by moving home to be with a woman that you don't get along with and complaining about it?

LegacyUser

OP genuine question here - but why dont you just say all the above to her? Can you not sit down with her and actually say how you're feeling about her demands?

Tbh it almost sounds like yourself and your brother have taken 10 steps back here and are now teenagers again being given a list of chores to do!

Potatoeman

Sounds like shes set in her ways. You need to set ground rules how you deal with each other.
Sometimes people are used to getting their way or having things just so. You should sort it out as soon as possible as it can get bad very fast.

Tilly

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Aren't you playing the martyr by moving home to be with a woman that you don't get along with and complaining about it?

No, she's being a good daughter.

OP can you sit down with your Mam and talk to her about this? Get it all out in the open and let her know you cant stick around if this is going to continue. You are grieving too after all and it's not fair on you.

R.D. aka MR.D

Tilly wrote: »

No, she's being a good daughter.

OP can you sit down with your Mam and talk to her about this? Get it all out in the open and let her know you cant stick around if this is going to continue. You are grieving too after all and it's not fair on you.

I understand that what she is doing is the 'right' thing to do but i don't think that she should be doing it if she's having such a hard time.

I don't get along with my mother at all and no matter the expectations on me when the time that my father dies come, i won't move back with her.

It's not the 'right' thing to do but I don't think it would do my mother much good to be around some one who doesn't particularly like her and would complain about it. I think a lot of people do this and it leads to elder abuse which i've seen in my own family with my uncle and my grandparents. They made him move back to Ireland and for 30 years he has resented them and it broke their hearts. They even admitted that they wished they had never made him come back because they have to put up with the verbal abuse.

I'm not saying the OP the op would do this but she has admitted that she doesn't like her mother.

Grandpa Hassan

You have to think about your life, as well as your mum's. And strike a balance between the two. I love my mum, but there is no way I would spend two years in the scenario that you describe. I would not move back in with her. I doubt very much that she will change....or is even capable of changing for any more than a few days. You say you've no ties to a particular place. Is it possible for you to move into the nearest town? Close enough that you can see her most days. But far enough that you don't get trapped. Because you will resent it, and ultimately resent your mum

Neyite

I saw something similar happen OP, the mother became more dependent and helpless, despite being barely 60, mobile, agile and wholly independant from a young age. Like your scenario, it was a rural location, so lonliness was a fear.

The daughter in question chose not to move in. And it was the right decision in hindsight. Even the mother admits it but couldnt see it at the time. You need to start as you mean to go on. She may potentially live another 40 odd years.

Its possible your mother is, in her own way, expressing grief. She wants sympathy and is lonely and scared of the future. But she is forgetting you are bereaved too. I think your brother and you need to sit down and talk to her. You simply cant move into a house that is not, and will never feel, homely to you.

Merkin

I'm sorry about your Dad, it must have come as a massive shock to you.

Where is your fiancé now?

Personally I would move out. The timeline of two years has already been set but as Neyite points out, it may not be all that easy to move out when the time comes. I also don't think it's sustainable as it stands, you're going to end up falling out.

Would you talk to your brother? See how he feels about you moving out and come to some arrangement whereby you help put when he wants to go away etc.

LegacyUser

Hey OP wrote: »

OP genuine question here - but why dont you just say all the above to her? Can you not sit down with her and actually say how you're feeling about her demands?

Tbh it almost sounds like yourself and your brother have taken 10 steps back here and are now teenagers again being given a list of chores to do!

If only I've tried for years, but the above would be taken as a criticism and then she will just shut off, not make eye contact and conversation goes nowhere. And I get frustrated because it's gone on for years, so I end up losing my temper.

We did have a huge fight recently, and I went back to fiance for a few days. We texted, and I apologised... she didn't and when I returned she didn't even mention what had happened.

I do get what other poster is saying; about playing the martyr myself. I don't want to be in this situation, but yet I put up with it and then complain. I do wonder am I the same, but it's just a little different at the moment, I don't think it's fair to leave her alone and unfortunately I can't afford to live in the nearby town.

I'm definitely not enjoying the fact that I being a 'good daughter' or my self sacrifice. I'm not getting anything out of it, so that's why I'm nearly certain I don't have a martyr complex in my personality.

I'm paying half the rent on a house in Galway with fiance and about a month after my Dad died, he got let go from his job. That lease will be up soon though, and I'm hoping he finds work somewhere along east coast and then hopefully if we rent somewhere near by, I can go between the two houses with convenience.

I'm trying to be thoughtful that it is her house, but as my brother and I now live there too, I suggested that we try live and share the space as if we are just housemates, but that was pretty much ignored.

I may not like her at the moment, but I do want that to change, I've a feeling my brother will leave country again soon, so it will be just the two of us.

Thank you for all the quick reply's btw, appreciate it.

tara73

why do you two brothers need to be there? I can understand it's very hard to be alone after the sudden death of a partner and kudos to you two for living with your mum now.
but for the sake of it, isn't one person to be there enough so you both can change, say every 2 weeks?

and is your mum behaving in the same way towards your brother? if not, if she's more civil and they are getting along better, it would make sense you only staying there partially.

but as the others said, to change things in the longterm you need to discuss her behaviour with her and your brother, this is no situation to be in for 2 years and you need to stand up for yourself, address your mothers behaviour and make clear you're not be treated in such a way!!

Neyite

Bluntly you need to ask her then:

What is in it for you? She gets companionship, someone to help out around the house, someone to take her bad moods out on, someone to treat badly in order to make herself feel better.

What part of the deal benefits you in any way?

If your partner were to treat you like this in his house - where everything had to be put back exactly to his specifications, where you couldnt even make yourself a sandwich without worrying how he would give out to you that you cleaned up the wrong way, where you tiptoe around his moods trying in vain to predict them (and invaribly getting it wrong) we would all be telling you that he is a control freak, that its domestic abuse and that you should leave. Just because its a parent being emotionally and verbally controlling it does not mean that it is any different, or that we are obligated to take it from them.

Honestly, I would move back in with my partner if I were you, I'd make it clear the reasons why, and just visit frequently. If I got hassle or abuse, I'd make myself scarce to show that I will not take bad behaviour. You will feel guilt, but that is just because you are a nice person. But you really have nothing to feel guilty about.

jlm29

My mam was widowed 10 years ago, and was living alone, for a good while (prob about 7 years) until I moved home for work reasons. My brother wasn't all that close by at the time, but we would both have been home a lot of weekends. I honestly don't think you're doing your mother any favours by Molly coddling her. If she doesn't want to live alone in a rural area, she should come up with a solution to that herself- if that means selling up and moving to a near by town, so be it. Unless you intend to live with her forever, you're just putting off the inevitable by living with her now. It seems as though you would both be better off if you went back to living with your fiancé, and visited her when you could.

FactCheck

I don't want to be harsh here because I'm sure the last while withthe sudden death of your dad and collapse of the business has been incredibly difficult.

But look - she's 57. She's not 77. She's well able to look after herself and if she isn't she can sell the massive house and buy a lovely manageable apartment in town.

It's the east coast, there is NOWHERE that "remote" on the east coast.

You are completely following in her martyr footsteps here. I don't blame you because that's obviously the very dysfunctional behaviour you've seen modelled your whole life.

But you are putting your relationship with your fiance under stain for this foolishness. Get back to your own home where you belong and stop risking your life and your future for a grown up who is well capable of looking after themselves.

What you are doing is not required or expected of a "good daughter". Not at all.

Merkin

I agree. You're due to marry the man you love and your future is with him. While I think you have the best of intentions etc I don't think your mother appreciates you being there at all. I think you and your fiance should look for work and accommodation on the east coast so you can still offer a supporting role and be within relatively close proximity but I'd cease putting your own future on hold for someone who clearly doesn't appreciate it. You'll also end up having a better relationship with her in the long run.

Grandpa Hassan

I'd echo the above posters. If you move in with your mum, there is no incentive for things to ever change. Ever.

An Bhanríon

Your situation sounds just like the classic grown up child moving back home. Unless both parties are able to be very mature and grown up about it and agree some ground rules, things normally end up the way they are with you and your mother.

It is for this reason I have vowed NEVER to move back into my own mother's house, no matter what happens.

Since you have already spoken to your mother and asked her to change her ways the only solution I can think of is that you tell your mother very calmly that things aren't working out. Tell her exactly the reasons. Tell her the things you have tried to do to accommodate her. You could also admit the things you haven't done so well. Then say that you are seriously considering moving out. Say that you will continue to support her but that you don't think it's any help to her situation having the two of you under the same roof. She will either get worse and give you hell - then you will move out. Or she will get better and you will agree to stay. Be prepared to move out, though. And never mind what anybody says about your 'poor mother' or anything like that. You have to think of your own sanity and of your relationship with your fiancé too.

Best of luck!

liz lemoncello

lorna2746 wrote: »

....

I'm trying to be thoughtful that it is her house,[/]b but as my brother and I now live there too, I suggested that we try live and share the space as if we are just housemates, but that was pretty much ignored.

Yes, it is her house, but she expects you to live in it for two years? I don't understand that. Is it something to do with your father's business or is it because she doesn't want to live alone?

LegacyUser

Chances are your mother feels the same about you but doesn't know how to approach it.
Could could move back in with fella and stay with her maybe two nights a weeks, since you aren't working. You will be a better support if you are actually getting along, as the last thing your mother needs in this situation is someone resented being there.

LegacyUser

liz lemoncello wrote: »

Yes, it is her house, but she expects you to live in it for two years? I don't understand that. Is it something to do with your father's business or is it because she doesn't want to live alone?

It's just the shock of everything, we both (brother & I) wanted to come home. Everything we've ever known is gone. Even the business was started two years before I was born.

Yes true the east coast isn't really remote! The house is very isolated though, rural and neighbour is a couple of minutes walk away. I worry about the security of the place, particularly at night time.

My parents were just about to start onto the next part of their life, mortgage paid off just before it happened, kids gone, he was slowly wrapping things up with the business and starting to take it easy. What she has said regarding the two years, is that hopefully the dust has settled in that kind of a time frame and we'd be back on our feet, emotionally and financially. It is a huge shock and I do think all three of us need to be together for a while, it's too depressing alone.

I honestly don't mind going between the two houses, home house & where ever fiance finds work, but it's impossible dealing with her when she can't see or realise that every row (and I am really bad at keeping my temper so there are a lot of rows) starts with her. Just so frustrating.

Lou.m

What you are mentioning sounds like very small stuff considering what she has been through. And to be honest it sounds like she is simply after you to pull your weight.

It sounds like you need to ask her is this right for you guys?

Also try having a laugh ...joke around do NICE stuff it really can change a dynamic.

In the end do what YOU need to ...maybe two years might be too long for you ...say two or three months and have a review?

But don't do it and complain and be unhappy. She doesn't sound that bad at all to be honest.

LegacyUser

From what you have told us your mother is used to getting her own way and not an easy person to get on with. She expects you to live with her for the next 2 years but gives out to you over the smallest thing possible.
You need to remember that your mother is only in her late 50's and not in her late 70's. She is a still a young woman and she does not need you living with her for the next 2 years. This is not going to make thing better for either of you long term.

If your living with your mother she has some one to live with and she can take out her bad form on you. She is not going to change or move on with her life in any way once your at home. The reality is that you can't put your own life on hold for the next 2 years or nor can you expect your fiancé to wait for a few years before you go back to living together or making plans for both your futures.

You need to let your mother know that you won't be staying with her for the next 2 years and that you won't be treated like a bold child when you are living with her.
She may not want to hear this but unless you stand up to her now you going to end up miserable. The reality is that your mother seems to need you at the moment but if she wants your help she needs to treat you as an adult.

LegacyUser

Lou.m wrote: »

What you are mentioning sounds like very small stuff considering what she has been through. And to be honest it sounds like she is simply after you to pull your weight.

It sounds like you need to ask her is this right for you guys?

Also try having a laugh ...joke around do NICE stuff it really can change a dynamic.

In the end do what YOU need to ...maybe two years might be too long for you ...say two or three months and have a review?

But don't do it and complain and be unhappy. She doesn't sound that bad at all to be honest.

My mother has a martyr complex, what I've described may sound like 'very small stuff' but I've been dealing with constant criticism from her as far back as I can remember. The 'very small stuff' adds up over time. And I most certainly do pull my weight. Two days before my Dads funeral I was down in his office organising meetings with his accountants and trying to finish off orders he was in the middle of. I haven't stopped the last three months, my favourite person in the world is gone, I'm exhausted and still my mother won't get off my back over the most unimportant things, things that are being done, just not done the exact way she wants them.

Anyway, sorry for ranting, thank you for the advice; yes trying to have a laugh would definitely be a good idea

Will definitely work towards moving out over next few months if fiance can find work around here. Many thanks for the kind advice to each of you, perspective is always important.

Lorna2746

FactCheck

It's only been three months?

I'm so sorry for your loss.

I think as you start to come out of the first fog of grief and the initial shock, you are going to see that all moving back in together is not the right way forward for your family - either family, because you and your fiance are a family too.

Teyla Emmagan

I am very sorry about your father OP.

As to the long term though how is your mother going to live in the house by herself once the 2 years are up? Surely if it's lonely and isolated now it will be lonely and isolated then? Realistically staying there is not a long term solution for her. You need to start introducing the idea that the house will have to be sold and she will need to move somewhere nearer other people.

I also feel 2 years is ridiculous. You should be with your fiancée. Of course your mother needs you now but asking you to move back home for the next 2 years is just daft. She is a young and healthy woman and you have your own life to lead.

Would she rent out a room in the house? Could you get an au pair for a bit of company?

It is early days yet but you all need a plan to get out of there.

curlzy

Hi OP,

You have my pity you really do. This is a hard problem and it's hard to see what's best to do. But I think Neyite's advicse is the most balanced. Have another read of it again. Look you can't sacrifice yourself for someone else, not even a parent. You need to find a way to support her without taking abuse or being upset all the time. I really think you need to move out and try to find somewhere close by that you can visit from. One more idea though, would it be beyond the realm of possibility that she would attend councelling with you? You could say it's for the grief but then bring up some of the issues you're having with her, mediation with a professional could work because I really couldn't see her changing by herself from what you describe.

Best of luck with it and my condolences also.

December2012

I dunno - it has only been 3 months. She lost her young husband, suddenly. And I reckon she's angry and cranky and everything that goes with grief.

He was your Dad.

But he was her husband.

Can't you cut her some slack?

Maybe she doesn't want you and your brother there - as you said she was moving on with her life and now she's stuck in a shocking role with an uncertain future.

professore

December2012 wrote: »

I dunno - it has only been 3 months. She lost her young husband, suddenly. And I reckon she's angry and cranky and everything that goes with grief.

He was your Dad.

But he was her husband.

Can't you cut her some slack?

Maybe she doesn't want you and your brother there - as you said she was moving on with her life and now she's stuck in a shocking role with an uncertain future.

So she's entitled to put everyone's life on hold for 2 years while she deals with her grief? What about everyone else's grief? If she doesn't want them there why is she taking about 2 years?

I think the OP needs to tell her nicely she is moving back with her fiancé. If she doesn't get the message, leave. We only get one life, and it's too short to let others control it if it can be avoided. You need to take care of yourself now OP.

dark crystal

I have no idea why a grown, fairly young woman, with no health problems, well able to get out and about in the car would need her adult children to look after her for two years because she's been recently widowed. A few weeks, sure, but expecting them to give up their own lives for two years is beyond the scope.

Speaking as a mother myself, I would never dream of asking my children to do such a thing.

OP, once you get the business side of things sorted, I would plan to go back to your own life and deal with the grief you're feeling without the added pressures of looking after someone else's needs constantly. You can always call your mum and go for visits as much as you like, but this situation sounds totally unworkable and unnecessary to me.

greenieted

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

You have to think about your life, as well as your mum's. And strike a balance between the two. I love my mum, but there is no way I would spend two years in the scenario that you describe. I would not move back in with her. I doubt very much that she will change....or is even capable of changing for any more than a few days. You say you've no ties to a particular place. Is it possible for you to move into the nearest town? Close enough that you can see her most days. But far enough that you don't get trapped. Because you will resent it, and ultimately resent your mum

If this is possible it seems like a good option. To be very honest its not fair of your mum to expect you and your brother to live with her for two years. A few months sure but you need to get on with your own life after that. By all means you need to look after your mum but you shouldn't have to live with her to do that.

December2012

professore wrote: »

So she's entitled to put everyone's life on hold for 2 years while she deals with her grief? What about everyone else's grief? If she doesn't want them there why is she taking about 2 years?

I think the OP needs to tell her nicely she is moving back with her fiancé. If she doesn't get the message, leave. We only get one life, and it's too short to let others control it if it can be avoided. You need to take care of yourself now OP.

To be honest - in my view yes. She can say or feel however she wants. Her husband has died.

That doesn't mean the kids have to stay with her for two years - maybe she's saying that to help the kids get over the loss of their dad?

dark crystal

December2012 wrote: »

To be honest - in my view yes. She can say or feel however she wants. Her husband has died.

That doesn't mean the kids have to stay with her for two years - maybe she's saying that to help the kids get over the loss of their dad?

How is moving her children away from their lives for 2 years to be there at her beck and call supposed to help them get over the loss of their dad? I don't get that reasoning at all.

She may have lost her husband, but her children are grieving the loss of their father too and should be free to grieve however and wherever they see fit. I would never expect my children to give up their lives for my benefit. Ever.

December2012

Did she ask them to move back for two years? It seems to be volunteered?

LegacyUser

December2012 wrote: »

Did she ask them to move back for two years? It seems to be volunteered?

She did suggest it. (I said that above)

I do understand your point; her life has changed more than ours, but you're making it sound like: he was her husband, he was only your Dad.

I posted to look for advice on dealing with people who have a martyr complex, maybe somebody has/had a similar person in their lives, somebody they can't just cut out of their lives for good. Was wondering if there is a correct way to deal with them?

Counselling would be great, I would definitely do it, (she probably wouldn't tbh, but can't be sure ofc)

Of course it's hard to get across the relationship in just a couple of posts on a website, and wouldn't blame anybody for getting the impression that they are just 'little things' and I should let it go.

Yesterday we were leaving the house to go to Tesco together, and I came down into the kitchen wearing a pair of boots that are covered in plaster and dirt. She told me I couldn't go in them and to change, I said absolutely not, the boots are all I have any way apart from flipflops (it was raining, so not an option) and a pair of runners that are falling apart.

I'm in my late twenties and I had to stamp and fight for my right to wear the boots. She wouldn't give in. I said forget it, I'm not going, I'll go later in my own car. When she realised I meant it, she softened and said no come on lets go, it fine.

And then the martyr appears... I'm the horrible one, God love her having somebody like me who is so difficult to deal with.

dark crystal

December2012 wrote: »

Did she ask them to move back for two years? It seems to be volunteered?

From the OP:

And I was able to get on with my mother a lot better when there was some distance and I only saw her once every few weeks. But she wants us (brother & I) to live here for approx 2 years, until the dust settles.

IMO, it's completely unreasonable to expect your children to do this.

eviltwin

OP I'm very sorry for your loss. I think you should move out, you're mother won't just wake up one morning and be a different person and you're really just enabling this behaviour by staying. You can still be in her life and be a help to her without living there full time. All you are doing is making yourself unwell if you stay and you need your space.

Addle

I have a very ill parent at the moment and have moved home to help care for them.
My other parent has a serious case of martyr syndrome, and I really can't understand where they get their notions because they are the most selfish person going. How they can make someone else's illness all about them is beyond me.
If my ill parent dies, that'll be end of my relationship with my other parent.

I think you should move out OP.
If you don't, you'll just be overcome with resentment towards your mother, which will be so hard to get over.