Would you recommend teaching to a current 3rd level student?

thenashlegend

First off, I'm not actually on a teaching course, but a degree in IT and I'll be heading into my third year in September. I've researched the route I would need to take to gain a teaching qualification i.e. an Honours Degree in my current field and then the two years in NUIG to complete the Masters in Education, but having looked around here at some threads, it seems the teaching world is in chaos at the minute.

I had thought of either secondary or PLC college teaching but considering the qualifications I would have by the time I'm ready to even start the PGDE I'm wondering if there are "easier" or less stressful jobs available that would pay more? Please don't take that up as me wanting an easy job with lots of money, yes it would be nice but what I mean in this situation is, with an Honours Degree in IT Management is teaching something you would recommend? Especially when chances are there will be higher paying jobs that require the same skillset.

Obviously I would be teaching ICT at second level or possibly a range of IT related subjects at PLC level, what is the demand like for these areas at the moment? In my own opinion I feel PLC teaching would be the easier of the two as students are often there because they want to learn, that was certainly my own experience not so long ago. Basically what I'm asking is, does all this seem like a reasonable plan or if you had your time over would you prefer to work in industry of your chosen area or would teaching still be your goal?

Thanks

whiteandlight

If you want a job that pays well please don't go into teaching unless you it is your dream profession and you are prepared for a rough road and low salary for at least a few years after graduation. It can be gratifying and I love it but I'm under no illusions that it is an easy road.



Taking a snapshot of the country from educationposts.ie this evening (all jobs must be advertised here)

There are two permanent teaching posts in the whole country (and are probably going to be filled internally)

There are 40 RPT positions (your own hours, can lead to CID status if you hold them for three years. However of these, only 3 are full time. 2 of them are only 4 hours (In perspective that is €5582 gross salary per year) and there's ones for 5/6 hours and so on. You may get cover hours on top of that but HR has done away with a lot of them and they will be adhoc.

• The remaining jobs are either maternity leaves/career breaks/fixed term contracts where you have absolutely no right to the hours and short of the teacher in question deciding not to return to teaching you are out on your ear when they come back.

The starting salary in teaching looks great, however very few teachers get that in their first years teaching. And even at the height of the boom when teachers were in demand it was still taking an average of 7 years for a teacher to gain permanency (even though every Tom, Dick and Harry will assume you have job security). There were 150 or so of us in the PGDE in my college when I graduated. Replicate that around the country and there must be about 1k teachers graduating a year and nowhere near enough jobs available even for the current graduates.

You are also talking about being a single subject teacher in a subject which is not currently examinable. Again to put that in perspective, there is not a single job in ICT advertised of any status.

If you are prepared to go and teach/live in the English system you will likely get a full time job straight out but (again anecdotally) there is a reason they are expecting to be 15k teachers short in the coming years.

I cannot speak to the PLC route but anecdotally its not much better.

mtoutlemonde

thenashlegend wrote: »

Obviously I would be teaching ICT at second level or possibly a range of IT related subjects at PLC level, what is the demand like for these areas at the moment?

There is no demand for IT teachers at second-level and I have been teaching for a few years and have never come across any PLC vacancies. IT is used as a filler subject, with every type of teacher teaching it.

thenashlegend wrote: »

In my own opinion I feel PLC teaching would be the easier of the two as students are often there because they want to learn, that was certainly my own experience not so long ago.

Not always the case, some students are only there in order to keep social welfare benefits and will have little or not interest in what you teaching. Also adult learners can have difficulties handing up assignments at deadlines due to childcare, work etc.

thenashlegend wrote: »

Basically what I'm asking is, does all this seem like a reasonable plan or if you had your time over would you prefer to work in industry of your chosen area or would teaching still be your goal?

Well my advice to anyone considering teaching as career would be to be absolutely sure that you really want to teach and have a passion for it. I would get some experience to see how much you have do outside the classroom i.e. plans, corrections .... maybe shadow a teacher for a week or so. If I had my time over again, I would definetly do it again - it was the only thing I wanted to do and I love it.

Like you, I have a degree in IT - which only enables you to teach ICT - which as I have said there is little or no demand. I had to do more study in order to get another subject which is examinable and this is the only thing I have taught since qualiifying. Now and again, I have a look at IT vacancies and sometimes there are vacancies for IT trainers which may interest you.

If you considered going to England to train - ICT is an examinable subject and I have received a few emails with vacancies.

If you were going into teaching nowadays for the money, holidays and easy life you would get a shock as these are things for the past. Then when you qualify you will spend years looking for some work - probably a lot of subbing and hopefully getting some hours of your own. Just think of the costs involved, the challenges of finding work and the cutbacks to young teacher's salaries - is teaching something I really really want to do?

Anyway, I hope I've answered your questions - it is possible but you will need to consider getting another subject that is examined at LC. I'll leave it there as its late, if there is anything else I will amend post. Good luck with the future and if you have anymore questions don't hesitate.

thenashlegend

Thank you to both of you for your very detailed replies. I have to admit, teaching hasn't always been a dream or even a consideration until recently. As part of my current course I've been on work placement with an IT company that deals mainly with schools, as we've been in and out of them the idea had kind of planted itself in my head and it was something I wanted to look into.
Like I mentioned earlier, the only thing that was putting a doubt in my mind is that by the time I'll have a teaching qualification gained I could have a masters in an IT related area that would leave me better placed to take on a more secure job rather than being in and out of temporary roles.

RealJohn

Unless you'll be qualified to teach something other than IT (you might have enough maths credits) then forget about secondary teaching anyway. I don't think I've ever seen a job advertised looking for an IT/computers teacher, even with another subject. IT skills, yes. IT teaching, never.
Admittedly I haven't needed to look at job advertisements for a few years but I can't imagine it's changed much. Like one of the previous posters said, IT is used as a filler in most schools. You might get 'ahead of the curve' because it should probably be brought in as a 'proper' subject but I'd say you'll be a while waiting for that.

Grumpy Greg

Hi I've been teaching for 20 years. It is a very rewarding career, not financially but in terms of job satisfaction. In relation to your situation the opportunities available for ICT in second level schools are limited. You may well end up on hours rather than full time. The pay therefore wouldn't be great. Working in the IT sector would make more sense if finance is an issue. Having said this in teaching you'll never be bored.

gaiscioch

IT, surprisingly, is not much of a subject as teaching goes. At least not yet. So, as has been said you'd need at least two "real" subjects like Maths or a language (preferably not English as there are too many English graduates). You'd be codding yourself if you expected full hours without those two good subjects.

Teaching can be great and deeply satisfying and if money is not your priority and you have something outside work which you're interested in, then the holidays make it an exceptional career. Because of house prices, it's financially not a good career to get into if you want to buy in any half-nice area of Dublin. Outside Dublin you could buy a decent house on a single salary.

thenashlegend

Thanks again for all the great replies, it seems that my current idea of teaching IT at second level is out, I have studied maths but only for a year, so I doubt it would allow me to continue on and teach the subject. I certainly don't have any longing to return to maths from the students point of view anyway!

Where someone mentioned IT training earlier, would this be providing training to businesses or teachers? Or generally, what kind of jobs have you noticed in this area?

I can't really say that finance is my main reason for looking for a teaching role, yes it would be nice to be in a comfortable job, but I'd rather have a job that pays X and be content than to get Y and hate going to work each day. One of the main advantages of a teaching job for me, would be the holidays as we operate a business and the extra time off would allow me to be involved in that too.

mtoutlemonde

thenashlegend wrote: »

Thanks again for all the great replies, it seems that my current idea of teaching IT at second level is out, I have studied maths but only for a year, so I doubt it would allow me to continue on and teach the subject. I certainly don't have any longing to return to maths from the students point of view anyway!

No, you will not be eligible to teach maths. I did Maths for two years and was not recognised - this is a problem that has been around for a while. Search the forum for Maths and Engineering degree and you will find out that the only degree eligible for maths teaching is the B.Eng only.

thenashlegend wrote: »

I certainly don't have any longing to return to maths from the students point of view anyway!

Well you're cutting off your off your prospects then. If you really wanted to teach you would be willing to do some more study to make you more employable. When I did my study, there were a lot of teachers on my course. Even though the juggle between work and study was a struggle for a while - I really benefited from it and I really enjoyed it as it was getting me closer to my goals. You have to be willing to upskill and you will have to do it anyway through in-services etc.

thenashlegend wrote: »

Where someone mentioned IT training earlier, would this be providing training to businesses or teachers? Or generally, what kind of jobs have you noticed in this area?

I just did a google search and an IT training company was first result - have a look at that. I have friends who have worked digitising textbooks etc.

thenashlegend wrote: »

I can't really say that finance is my main reason for looking for a teaching role, yes it would be nice to be in a comfortable job, but I'd rather have a job that pays X and be content than to get Y and hate going to work each day. One of the main advantages of a teaching job for me, would be the holidays as we operate a business and the extra time off would allow me to be involved in that too.

1. It's not as comfortable as you think - you will spend quite a few years looking for work and when you find it, you must have three years in the same school with the same contract and starting into your fourth year for some kind permanency. I have heard stories from people who lost their jobs prior to their third/fourth year due to redeployment. So that will take the comfort out of the job.

2. Holidays - I'm not even go to go there. All I would say is not to go into teaching just for the holidays.

I get the feeling that you still have that sterotypical teacher in mind - stable job, loads of money and the holidays - try it for a while - you will get your eyes opened.

byhookorbycrook

I think many people fall for the nonsense pushed in the media of a handy number , short hours, " permanent and pensionable" and that we are all on salaries of €65,000 plus.