Cycling and your knees

Usjes

Hi,

Is there any generally accepted wisdom about the long term impact cycling will have on one's knees? Is cycling considered

- beneficial; low impact exercise ?
- potentially harmful, thousands of repetitions of knee bending every day causing excessive wear and tear?
- neutral ?

In particular, if it is potentially harmful, is there any accepted correct cycling technique to minimize damage or to ensure that cycling does no harm. I have been cycling daily for decades without problems. Recently though someone suggested to me that bicycles should have a health warning on them like cigarette packets because of the damage long term use would do to one's knees. Whilst this is clearly ridiculously exagerated nonsense it did get me to thinking, what is the best way to care for your knees ?

For instance, I noticed that when I cycle my leg never becomes fully straight; the angle at between the back of my shin and the back of my thigh varies from about 70degrees to 170degress (but never to the full 180 degrees) over a single rev of the pedals. I've been cycling forever and I guess I generally set to saddle to what feels right to allow me to comfortably put the ball (not the heal) of my foot down while still on the saddle, but it seems that if I were to raise the saddle an inch or so this might increas the distance from my bum to the pedal to ensure that I do straighten the leg completely each rev, should I do this ?
Or are there any other general rules I should be following with respect to bike adjustment to protect my knees ?

Thanks,

Usjes.

Lumen

Straight knee bad.

Knee problems in cycling are often caused by muscle imbalances and tightness pulling things out of line.

If you want to preserve your knees, do some strength and conditioning work specific to cycling, to address potential imbalances and ensure you are maintaining good range of motion.

Wishbone Ash

Usjes wrote: »

....Recently though someone suggested to me that bicycles should have a health warning on them like cigarette packets because of the damage long term use would do to .....

Might be easier to place a health warning on living! It causes long term damage to so many.

Buzwaldo

Used to have low grade knew trouble / niggles for years. Took up cycling 3 years ago and no knee joint trouble since. I put it down to cycling strengthening the muscles around my knees. Can even do a bit of jogging now when I want, which I never would have before.
Did (and do still occasionally) get a bit of pain in knee area, but not joint pain (ITB if you want to look it up) from doing too much climbing or grinding for my fitness level, but this quickly settles and reminds me to build up more gradually.
Having said that, only cycling 3 years so don't have millions of revolutions in my legs, but I think much more good than bad.

SpaceTime

I've actually stopped cycling because my knee started to click a lot.

jackstaff

You've just made me remember before I cycled regularly and I'd just jump on the mtb after a few revolutions it have to click my left knee then everything was grand.
I'm cycling 3 days a week now and it hasn't happened in a long time.

So cycling helped me

gordongekko

SpaceTime wrote: »

I've actually stopped cycling because my knee started to click a lot.

Why do you think it's the cycling that caused it?

NeedMoreGears

Lumen wrote: »

Straight knee bad.

Knee problems in cycling are often caused by muscle imbalances and tightness pulling things out of line.

If you want to preserve your knees, do some strength and conditioning work specific to cycling, to address potential imbalances and ensure you are maintaining good range of motion.

Lumen would you mind elaborating on that a bit please. Are you thinking of general stuff like squats with free weights, as distinct from using machines? I imagine some general core work would be useful also.

Thanks NMG

Usjes

Lumen wrote: »

Straight knee bad.

What do you mean by 'Straight knee' exactly ? Are you saying one shouldn't aim to completely straighten the leg (thigh and shin in a straight line or equivalently 180 degrees between thigh and shin) ?

G1032

Usjes wrote: »

What do you mean by 'Straight knee' exactly ? Are you saying one shouldn't aim to completely straighten the leg (thigh and shin in a straight line or equivalently 180 degrees between thigh and shin) ?

No. It shouldn't be straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke. I think the generally accepted angle is between 25 - 35 degree bend I (open to correction here)

I started having knee pain over the last few weeks after putting on new cleats. Long story short is that saddle is now 3 mm higher and knee pain gone!

jackstaff

G1032 wrote: »

No. It shouldn't be straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke. I think the generally accepted angle is between 25 - 35 degree bend I (open to correction here)

I started having knee pain over the last few weeks after putting on new cleats. Long story short is that saddle is now 3 mm higher and knee pain gone!

3mm caused you knee pain??

nak

I have osteoarthritis in my knees, cycle 6 days a week including track racing and generally have no issues unless it's really cold and damp (in that case keeping the knees warm helps a lot). The arthritis was not caused by cycling as it was there before I started it.

The gym works for me; mainly do squats and have started Olympic lifting this year. I built this up very gradually under the supervision of a physio/weightlifting coach after getting ITB pain (caused by muscle imbalances after knee surgery). I can run occasionaully offroad, tarmac is too painful.

My husband has been cycling all his life and spent 10 years working as a bike courier (a good chunk of it was spent in hilly cities on a singlespeed or fixie) and he has no knee issues whatsoever. Didn't do any strength & conditioning either.

G1032

jackstaff wrote: »

3mm caused you knee pain??

Well the positioning of the new cleats caused the knee pain on front of right knee.

I moved the saddle up 5mm first and had no pain.

Then I moved it down by 2mm and still had no pain.

In saying that, I've only done a couple of 35km cycles with new saddle heights. Westportif on Saturday may well tell a different story

witty username

don't let your knees kick out to the side during your pedal stroke, particularly the top of the circle, i see that one a lot. use cleats with plenty of play.

as lumen said, straight knee bad. get your saddle height right so you're not overextending at the bottom of the stroke and hyper extending your knees, but not too low or you'll be getting pain over the top of your kneecap

stretch. hamstrings, ITB and quads. twice a week. my quads tightened from lack of stretching and pulled my kneecap offline, took a lot of icing and stretching to get back into line.

2 Wheels Good

I had (left) knee pain from about May on as my mileage increased. Had similar last year. Tried raising the saddle 5mm which helped a little but eventually the pain went from just on the bike to day to day. Tried physio where we have noticed an imbalance between the 2 legs, soccer injuries (dead legs) may be a factor. But there could be other factors.
Its been on my mind since I moved to cleats that they may be a problem and I finally tracked down a company doing the Look Keo Fit service in Ireland. Bike fit studio in Dublin did it and it's made a huge difference in just a couple of weeks, the left is recovering and I'm cycling a lot easier. My cleats were too far forward and needed slight angular adjustments.
There's an settling in period alright, the right knee is also after being moved and I can feel that. I'm happy enough with my overall bike fit but it's something i might invest in when I've some spare cash.

Cee-Jay-Cee

It sounds like you don't need to do anything at all. Your comfortable on your bike, you don't have any pains or niggles. If it's not broke....

ZiabR

Measure your inseam length. Takes all of 1 minute and then multiple that figure by .883. This will give you an estimate at how high your saddle needs to be from the centre of the crank.

For example, my inseam is 85cm. 85*.883 = 75.06cm. My saddle is actually at 75.20cm but I found such a difference from my old height. My saddle came up almost 3cm which is huge. I have less pain in my soft bits and no pain in my knees.

CramCycle

Usjes wrote: »

What do you mean by 'Straight knee' exactly ? Are you saying one shouldn't aim to completely straighten the leg (thigh and shin in a straight line or equivalently 180 degrees between thigh and shin) ?

Really bad for your knees over time but alot of people, myself included before i learned better, think this makes sense as you are getting a full extension.

G1032 wrote: »

No. It shouldn't be straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke. I think the generally accepted angle is between 25 - 35 degree bend I (open to correction here)

That's about right

Overall though, a correctly adjusted bike should be good for your knees

Eamonnator

I have osteoarthritis in both knees. I have also had a hip replacement.
I find, that cycling improves my knees, or at least keeps the arthritis at bay.
I think, that the improvement in the muscles around my knees helps, plus, I'm getting supported exercise.
I cycle around 15,000 Kms a year.
However, I still have difficulty walking up stairs.

deandean

I suggest the most important thing a cyclist can do to protect his/her knees is to have a good bike fit.

Like from the guy in Wicklow who works on technique as well as the fit of the bike.

Brian?

SpaceTime wrote: »

I've actually stopped cycling because my knee started to click a lot.

That's a terrible reason to stop cycling.

learn

Usjes wrote: »

Hi,

Is there any generally accepted wisdom about the long term impact cycling will have on one's knees? Is cycling considered

- beneficial; low impact exercise ?
- potentially harmful, thousands of repetitions of knee bending every day causing excessive wear and tear?
- neutral ?

In particular, if it is potentially harmful, is there any accepted correct cycling technique to minimize damage or to ensure that cycling does no harm. I have been cycling daily for decades without problems. Recently though someone suggested to me that bicycles should have a health warning on them like cigarette packets because of the damage long term use would do to one's knees. Whilst this is clearly ridiculously exagerated nonsense it did get me to thinking, what is the best way to care for your knees ?

For instance, I noticed that when I cycle my leg never becomes fully straight; the angle at between the back of my shin and the back of my thigh varies from about 70degrees to 170degress (but never to the full 180 degrees) over a single rev of the pedals. I've been cycling forever and I guess I generally set to saddle to what feels right to allow me to comfortably put the ball (not the heal) of my foot down while still on the saddle, but it seems that if I were to raise the saddle an inch or so this might increas the distance from my bum to the pedal to ensure that I do straighten the leg completely each rev, should I do this ?
Or are there any other general rules I should be following with respect to bike adjustment to protect my knees ?

Thanks,

Usjes.

To get a comfortable pedalling position, your knee/leg should be straight only when the heel of your shoe is resting on the pedal at the 6 o'c position.

Lumen

Eamonnator wrote: »

I cycle around 15,000 Kms a year.
However, I still have difficulty walking up stairs.

It's a common complaint amongst pro cyclists. Badge of (dis-?)honour!

smacl

Usjes wrote: »

- beneficial; low impact exercise ?
- potentially harmful, thousands of repetitions of knee bending every day causing excessive wear and tear?
- neutral ?

Compared to most other exercises, cycling is a beneficial, low impact exercise. For most people, spinning lower gears is also much easier on the knees than mashing higher ones.