pedigree v commercial

blonde10

What are people's views on using pedigree cows in a commercial herd,has anyone got some running in the herd,is the end product any better, and is there really issues regarding fertility in pedigree females,

simx

blonde10 wrote: »

What are people's views on using pedigree cows in a commercial herd,has anyone got some running in the herd,is the end product any better, and is there really issues regarding fertility in pedigree females,

IMO any pb cows we had here up and down over the years milk has been a lot of the issue, can't say there was noticible difference with fertility

Mad4simmental

blonde10 wrote: »

What are people's views on using pedigree cows in a commercial herd,has anyone got some running in the herd,is the end product any better, and is there really issues regarding fertility in pedigree females,

A few pedigree Simmentals running with the commercial herd here. There are ALLOT of very poor pedigree stock in the country across all breeds. If she wasn't pedigree and you wouldn't keep her as a cow don't keep her just because she has papers. Cross breeds will almost allways be hardier and more fertile.

moy83

Personally I dont care much for purebred cattle in a suckler herd , we have one or two and didnt get much extra for their offspring .
Now fair play to the dedicated breeders that are always improving the breed , we need people like that for sure but there are loads that are tossing out the same stuff every year that aren't special .
I think Kovu said she is showing a crossbred heifer and they are always my favourite class at a show , they can be super animals and much better suited to a suckler herd that wants to tweak their animals to suit their individual farms/herd/ system

on the river

Mad4simmental wrote: »

A few pedigree Simmentals running with the commercial herd here. There are ALLOT of very poor pedigree stock in the country across all breeds. If she wasn't pedigree and you wouldn't keep her as a cow don't keep her just because she has papers. Cross breeds will almost allways be hardier and more fertile.

I agree commercial just gives you more variety then pedigree cattle. Harder fertility and more milk.

Although there is some quality pedigree stock out there but you will. Pay. big euro if you want them

mikeoh

Half my herd is pb AA .... no milk or fertility issues ...was going to buy a continental bull as the "ordinary" sucklers were producing much better quality calves but the maths didn't add up im still getting 30% more €€€€€ for my PB so couldn't justify adding them to the suckler herd........don't think getting an Angus bull will solve my problems either not because he wouldn't breed well with the sucklers as he has in the past but because the black not making as much in the weanling sales so dammed if I do and dammed if I dont!!!

moy83

mikeoh wrote: »

Half my herd is pb AA .... no milk or fertility issues ...was going to buy a continental bull as the "ordinary" sucklers were producing much better quality calves but the maths didn't add up im still getting 30% more €€€€€ for my PB so couldn't justify adding them to the suckler herd........don't think getting an Angus bull will solve my problems either not because he wouldn't breed well with the sucklers as he has in the past but because the black not making as much in the weanling sales so dammed if I do and dammed if I dont!!!

Will the aa from the dairy herd or a continental mother get the same bonuses as your pedigree calves ?So long as they are polled and black that is

Kovu

moy83 wrote: »

Personally I dont care much for purebred cattle in a suckler herd , we have one or two and didnt get much extra for their offspring .
Now fair play to the dedicated breeders that are always improving the breed , we need people like that for sure but there are loads that are tossing out the same stuff every year that aren't special .
I think Kovu said she is showing a crossbred heifer and they are always my favourite class at a show , they can be super animals and much better suited to a suckler herd that wants to tweak their animals to suit their individual farms/herd/ system

Ay, she's a mongrel of sorts, dam is ch/lim/bit of brfr and angus in there too.

I have also shown PB LM cattle, we only have three of them now as we culled two last winter. All had heifer calves this year so may be kept on to bring us back to 6, although we only reg'd two calves as one isn't good enough.
Although we normally crossed the LM's with BB to get a stylish calf, last year we changed in the hopes of getting replacements and it worked out very well for us. The best cross on them so far was a blonde to be honest!

Comparing the PBs to the commercial, well, the main difference is they're a much 'softer' sort of animal. They have bad feet, most need to be pared every year. Wouldn't bounce back as quick as the commercials if they had a C-S or mastitis. The milk is an issue as well, although ours do ok, I certainly wouldn't like to see any of them try to rear twins.
Another con for them is that they do get very heavy, not the ideal cow for us as they sink a bit :rolleyes:

mikeoh

moy83 wrote: »

Will the aa from the dairy herd or a continental mother get the same bonuses as your pedigree calves ?So long as they are polled and black that is

Not in aa scheme .......yet....don't know

whelan2

all pb aa here, sell all bulls around 14 months, heifers around the same age all for breeding. Had a lad come back during the week, he bought an aa bull a few years ago from us , had been using ch previously, sold bulls to factory aax, last week got from 950-1450 at 16 months on 190 euro of meal .Said ch would still be looking at him at 2yo.

Sunset V

I see John Shirley was saying something this in the journal this week - that the show ring animal has a lot to answer for. Big and bony but not much in the line of traits a suckler farmer needs. Hard to disagree.

People go mad on looking for an animal that looks good but sometimes doesn't deliver. That doesn't keep the show on the road for most of us.

whelan2

Sunset V wrote: »

I see John Shirley was saying something this in the journal this week - that the show ring animal has a lot to answer for. Big and bony but not much in the line of traits a suckler farmer needs. Hard to disagree.

People go mad on looking for an animal that looks good but sometimes doesn't deliver. That doesn't keep the show on the road for most of us.

we dont bother halter training, people buy out of field, what you see is what you get. Always repeat customers.

Sheep breeder

We keep a lot of pure breeds and find them no different than the cross bred cows as people already have said, when we kept more cross cows we found every year the sim and bb cows needed to paired a head of a lot of the pure cows, in France the herds are nearly all pure bred cows,
The main thing we sell weanlings and find the colour of the calf is very important and helps to sell big time and as for finishing cattle great job.
The problem with the pure Breeds in this country is the way they are bred with a lot of the societies pushing for a type for the show ring and following what the English are doing and most breeders pushing so hard on meal.