Commercial tax for jeep

richiebon

Hi anybody manage to get commercial tax on a long wheel based 4 door land cruiser with seats in the back? Does boot space have to be a certain size...

wexie

Have a look here, it's all the requirements for conversion.

http://www.nsai.ie/NSAI/files/76/76b90d32-3676-4db3-a362-66db69bc423b.pdf

slippy wicket

I think you can get commercial insurance with 5 seats, dont know about full seven seats.

Groga

Hi

I have just heard that there was a new law passed recently if you convert say a Range Rover Vogue like mine, to have a bulk head fitted behind the seats, that you can now get commercial insurance, though I cannot seem to find anything about it online.

Can anyone shed any light please? I need to get mine done and need to find out where , how, what exactly needs doing, how much etc.

Sir Arthur Daley

Its a very easy process to do. What alot of people are forgetting is you couldn't be using it to chauffeur your other half and best friend and his half for a wedding. Its still commercial use. Equally dropping off the kids to the creche.

arctictree

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Its a very easy process to do. What alot of people are forgetting is you couldn't be using it to chauffeur your other half and best friend and his half for a wedding. Its still commercial use. Equally dropping off the kids to the creche.

Why not?

Sir Arthur Daley

arctictree wrote: »

Why not?

Why not what?

arctictree

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Why not what?

What can't you drop your young lad to the creche/school ?

The_Pretender

arctictree wrote: »

Why not?

Because you're getting to tax it cheaply so that you can use it for business. If you're using it for personal use then you should tax it at the private rate. You can should get done if caught using it for personal use.

Sir Arthur Daley

arctictree wrote: »

What can't you drop your young lad to the creche/school ?

Dropping kids off to the creche/school is not commercial use. Going to mass or the pub is not commercial use. Like I said earlier people are in a school of thought with this new conversion that once it has back seats its the same as a car.

arctictree

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Dropping kids off to the creche/school is not commercial use. Going to mass or the pub is not commercial use. Like I said earlier people are in a school of thought with this new conversion that once it has back seats its the same as a car.

So, you are saying that I can't go to mass or to the shops in my Jeep? Even on my own?

The_Pretender

arctictree wrote: »

So, you are saying that I can't go to mass or to the shops in my Jeep? Even on my own?

It must only be used for commercial purposes.

Goods only declaration:
http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovern...d,23874,en.pdf

If you're using it for anything other than that then you must tax it for that purpose.

GrandSoftDay

Does anyone know anybody that has been pulled up for it?

Sir Arthur Daley

arctictree wrote: »

So, you are saying that I can't go to mass or to the shops in my Jeep? Even on my own?

legally speaking no, it would be a hard case to win that going to mass is commercial use.

micraX

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

Does anyone know anybody that has been pulled up for it?

A lad in vintage society, a plumber with a van got stopped one Sunday, guards asked to look in back of van. He was after being mountain biking so had his bike and gear in the back. Guards questioned what it had to do with plumbing. He was done.

_Brian

micraX wrote: »

A lad in vintage society, a plumber with a van got stopped one Sunday, guards asked to look in back of van. He was after being mountain biking so had his bike and gear in the back. Guards questioned what it had to do with plumbing. He was done.

I know round home the guards would only prosecute on such a point if the owner was being a dick, either at the roadside or somehow coming to their attention in general.

Sir Arthur Daley

With everyone converting jeeps around the country it will policed more in my opinion anyway.

GrandSoftDay

micraX wrote: »

A lad in vintage society, a plumber with a van got stopped one Sunday, guards asked to look in back of van. He was after being mountain biking so had his bike and gear in the back. Guards questioned what it had to do with plumbing. He was done.

Met several checkpoints in town on a Saturday night and was never questioned about it. Never heard of anyone having any bother around here.

_Brian

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

Met several checkpoints in town on a Saturday night and was never questioned about it. Never heard of anyone having any bother around here.

I'd agree, and if there were a clamp down I'd expect they would be focusing on lads with no commercial enterprise at all who are running round with vans and commercial jeeps.

greysides

As a family we have a car and a jeep for my work. I consider it as an infringement of my rights not to be able to collect/drop children in it. I may be using it as a commercial 99% of the time but I'm a parent 100% of the time. I know that view point will carry no weight unless the law is changed to reflect it but that's how I see it.

Birdnuts

greysides wrote: »

As a family we have a car and a jeep for my work. I consider it as an infringement of my rights not to be able to collect/drop children in it. I may be using it as a commercial 99% of the time but I'm a parent 100% of the time. I know that view point will carry no weight unless the law is changed to reflect it but that's how I see it.

Heres another example of the stupidty of the the system. My brother wanted to get a new fiesta van to carry his gun dogs,bikes etc around and as a general run around for the wife etc.. Went to tax as a private user. Turns out you can't tax a "commercial" vehicle under the post 08 emmissions system which means the tax on this is done under the old CC system. This means the tax goes from 180euro to a whopping 470euro. Depite the fact that your simply driving a fiesta minus the back seats

The_Pretender

greysides wrote: »

As a family we have a car and a jeep for my work. I consider it as an infringement of my rights not to be able to collect/drop children in it. I may be using it as a commercial 99% of the time but I'm a parent 100% of the time. I know that view point will carry no weight unless the law is changed to reflect it but that's how I see it.

To be fair, if you're driving a pre-June 08 jeep with a 3.2 litre engine then you would be paying €1,809 a year to tax it. If you're taxing it commercially then you may do so for €333 on the condition that you only use it commercially. People with a 4x4/goods vehicle don't have a God-given right to cheaper tax. Commercial tax rates are there to help out businesses.

It's frustrating, and in an ideal world people would be allowed use their commercial vehicle for the few bits and pieces they do, but it's just too hard to know work

arctictree

The_Pretender wrote: »

Commercial tax rates are there to help out businesses.

Just on that point. I've seen people argue that property rates are dearer for businesses because they can afford it. Then I hear this argument that car tax is cheaper for businesses to encourage business. It all seems to be very messed up and contradictory.

wexie

The_Pretender wrote: »

To be fair, if you're driving a pre-June 08 jeep with a 3.2 litre engine then you would be paying €1,809 a year to tax it. If you're taxing it commercially then you may do so for €333 on the condition that you only use it commercially. People with a 4x4/goods vehicle don't have a God-given right to cheaper tax. Commercial tax rates are there to help out businesses.

we don't?

I've said it before the solution to this conundrum is simples :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1984-B-Land-Rover-Range-Rover-3-5-auto-Vogue-Clssic-/271423217877?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3f3215a0d5

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1981-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-2dr-/261523788652?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3ce408536c
1984 = 56 tax and nobody cares what you use it for.

want more load carrying and no V8 fuel bill?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Defender-110-/251595069493?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3a943c1835

_Brian

arctictree wrote: »

Just on that point. I've seen people argue that property rates are dearer for businesses because they can afford it. Then I hear this argument that car tax is cheaper for businesses to encourage business. It all seems to be very messed up and contradictory.

It all seems to be very messed up and contradictory IRISH

Fixed that last bit for ya

_Brian

wexie wrote: »

we don't?

I've said it before the solution to this conundrum is simples :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1984-B-Land-Rover-Range-Rover-3-5-auto-Vogue-Clssic-/271423217877?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3f3215a0d5

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1981-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-2dr-/261523788652?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3ce408536c
1984 = 56 tax and nobody cares what you use it for.

want more load carrying and no V8 fuel bill?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Defender-110-/251595069493?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3a943c1835

Ahhh..
But if you tax as vintage then you can't/shouldn't insure it privately, nullifying insurance is a bigger problem in my eyes..
And most vintage insurance has a 5-10k milage limit which I would blow through in a few weeks.. And then you can't use a vehicle with vintage insurance for ANY commercial use..

The_Pretender

arctictree wrote: »

Just on that point. I've seen people argue that property rates are dearer for businesses because they can afford it. Then I hear this argument that car tax is cheaper for businesses to encourage business. It all seems to be very messed up and contradictory.

No arguments, it is very messed up. We just bend over and take it when it comes to road tax. I don't know if you've ever checked out the UK equivalent of our motor tax bands, but it make ye absolutely sick to see how little they pay compared to us.

Sir Arthur Daley

greysides wrote: »

As a family we have a car and a jeep for my work. I consider it as an infringement of my rights not to be able to collect/drop children in it. I may be using it as a commercial 99% of the time but I'm a parent 100% of the time. I know that view point will carry no weight unless the law is changed to reflect it but that's how I see it.

Where do you draw the line in your infringement though? Should people be allowed to collect their kids 5 days a week, take it to the pub 2 nights a week and once the weekend for mass?

wexie

_Brian wrote: »

Ahhh..
But if you tax as vintage then you can't/shouldn't insure it privately, nullifying insurance is a bigger problem in my eyes..

Can you not? I had mine insured with AXA just on a regular private policy, no mileage limits and they knew well what year etc. it was?

_Brian

wexie wrote: »

Can you not? I had mine insured with AXA just on a regular private policy, no mileage limits and they knew well what year etc. it was?

SO did you specifically declare it was taxed as vintage? Just because they didn't ask means nothing, insurance is a contract of "utmost good faith" or similar where the onus is on you to declare all relevant details rather on them to ask for all relevant details..

wexie

_Brian wrote: »

SO did you specifically declare it was taxed as vintage? Just because they didn't ask means nothing, insurance is a contract of "utmost good faith" or similar where the onus is on you to declare all relevant details rather on them to ask for all relevant details..

geez I don't recall, but does it matter though? Taxing it as vintage shouldn't mean you can only drive it to shows and on sunday afternoons? Shouldn't be anything to stop you from using a vintage car as your daily driver. (other than any stipulations in the insurance policy like a limited mileage).

Obviously I could see things getting more complicated if you wanted commercial insurance on a vintage

_Brian

wexie wrote: »

geez I don't recall, but does it matter though? Taxing it as vintage shouldn't mean you can only drive it to shows and on sunday afternoons? Shouldn't be anything to stop you from using a vintage car as your daily driver. (other than any stipulations in the insurance policy like a limited mileage).

Obviously I could see things getting more complicated if you wanted commercial insurance on a vintage

I suppose it only matters IF it voids your insurance.. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, you'd only find out if you needed to claim on the insurance, or someone else if its your responsibility.
Shouldn't is very different to "Does" and "Doesn't"

Quick call to insurance company would answer things and I'd interested to know for sure myself.

How about NCT, am I right that vintage tax era vehicles have no need for NCT ? Without an NCT where would the private insurance stand ?

wexie

_Brian wrote: »

How about NCT, am I right that vintage tax era vehicles have no need for NCT ? Without an NCT where would the private insurance stand ?

Partly right, it's pre '81 (not quite sure what date in '81) that doesn't need an NCT anything after '81 will always need an NCT/DOE so you could have a 1983 car that's vintage but will still need an NCT

Big Nasty

wexie wrote: »

Partly right, it's pre '81 (not quite sure what date in '81) that doesn't need an NCT anything after '81 will always need an NCT/DOE so you could have a 1983 car that's vintage but will still need an NCT

Pre '80 in fact.

arctictree

So if I tax my jeep privately am I allowed to use it for commercial purposes? ie on the farm?

wexie

Big Nasty wrote: »

Pre '80 in fact.

hmmm....you're right, I was sure it was '81, wonder what I'm confused with

_Brian

arctictree wrote: »

So if I tax my jeep privately am I allowed to use it for commercial purposes? ie on the farm?

Yes, and I stand to be corrected, but you can offset 80% of its running costs on your accounts...

ganmo

_Brian wrote: »

Yes, and I stand to be corrected, but you can offset 80% of its running costs on your accounts...

Record the mileage and claim using the civil service rates

RightTurnClyde

ganmo wrote: »

Record the mileage and claim using the civil service rates

What are CS rates?

wexie

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

What are CS rates?

Something ludicrous like 8 euro per kilometer *:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it51.html

Official Motor Travel in a calendar year Engine Capacity: Up to 1,200 cc Engine Capacity: 1,201 cc to 1,500 cc Engine Capacity: 1,501 cc and over
Up to 6,437km 39.12 cent 46.25 cent 59.07 cent
6,438km and over 21.22 cent 23.62 cent 28.46 cent

_Brian

wexie wrote: »

Something ludicrous like 8 euro per kilometer *:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it51.html

Official Motor Travel in a calendar year Engine Capacity: Up to 1,200 cc Engine Capacity: 1,201 cc to 1,500 cc Engine Capacity: 1,501 cc and over
Up to 6,437km 39.12 cent 46.25 cent 59.07 cent
6,438km and over 21.22 cent 23.62 cent 28.46 cent

I thought it was €1 per mile to 4000 miles and then €.5 for miles after.
Regular PS/CS aren't getting €8/km

wexie

_Brian wrote: »

I thought it was €1 per mile to 4000 miles and then €.5 for miles after.
Regular PS/CS aren't getting €8/km

forgot to put in the *sarcasm bit

ganmo

http://www.ucd.ie/bursar/travel_expenses.html#mileage_guidelines_rates

That's the sc rates

ubs69

What about the taxi drivers , 90€ a year and they can us it for pleasure ,while use van drivers have to buy a van and a car and try run both

_Brian

ubs69 wrote: »

What about the taxi drivers , 90€ a year and they can us it for pleasure ,while use van drivers have to buy a van and a car and try run both

Yea but who wants to be a taxi driver, thats a big price to pay for cheap tax :cool:

Maphisto

The_Pretender wrote: »

Because you're getting to tax it cheaply so that you can use it for business. If you're using it for personal use then you should tax it at the private rate. You can should get done if caught using it for personal use.

Sorry to be a pedant and I don't mean to come across as a A/hole but you aren't getting it cheaply. You are getting it cheaper. Motor Tax rates in the country are feckin astronomical.

To tax my jeep privately would cost something over €1300. I'm not a big dairy or beef boy, I can't afford to run two cars - so I take that risk

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

Does anyone know anybody that has been pulled up for it?

Around this way, its a favourite trick of the boys in blue to wait outside schools at drop off time and check on the 4x4s - as the Meercat says "Simples"

_Brian

Maphisto wrote: »

Sorry to be a pedant and I don't mean to come across as a A/hole but you aren't getting it cheaply. You are getting it cheaper. Motor Tax rates in the country are feckin astronomical.

To tax my jeep privately would cost something over €1300. I'm not a big dairy or beef boy, I can't afford to run two cars - so I take that risk



Around this way, its a favourite trick of the boys in blue to wait outside schools at drop off time and check on the 4x4s - as the Meercat says "Simples"

At our school two gurads drop their kids off in vans :rolleyes:

Maphisto

_Brian wrote: »

At our school two gurads drop their kids off in vans :rolleyes:

Isn't that just beautiful. No where else:pac:

The_Pretender

Maphisto wrote: »

Sorry to be a pedant and I don't mean to come across as a A/hole but you aren't getting it cheaply. You are getting it cheaper. Motor Tax rates in the country are feckin astronomical.

To tax my jeep privately would cost something over €1300. I'm not a big dairy or beef boy, I can't afford to run two cars - so I take that risk

As said, I know the rates we pay over here are crazy. But it's all relative. If you could be only paying 20/25% of the motor tax that someone else is paying to drive the same vehicle then you are getting it much cheaper, even if it is still ridiculously high.

The_Pretender wrote: »

To be fair, if you're driving a pre-June 08 jeep with a 3.2 litre engine then you would be paying €1,809 a year to tax it. If you're taxing it commercially then you may do so for €333 on the condition that you only use it commercially. People with a 4x4/goods vehicle don't have a God-given right to cheaper tax. Commercial tax rates are there to help out businesses.

It's frustrating, and in an ideal world people would be allowed use their commercial vehicle for the few bits and pieces they do, but it's just too hard to know work