Ensuring staff take their holidays

and other disasters

I'm curious as to what policies people have encountered to ensure that employees take all of their annual leave entitlement?

I manage a small office and we don't carry over annual leave from one year to the next. As the team is quite small (first come first served rule applies to leave requests) I want to try to minimise any issue with staff either losing untaken leave or holding leave over until the last minute and then me not be in a position to grant a request to let them have the whole month of December off for example. At the same time in my own working life I've never experienced a policy that said, for example, that x amount of days had to be taken before November or whatever.

Use it or lose it is a fine system, but in small business it can be more difficult as not everyone can be off at the same time.

smcgiff

and other disasters wrote: »

I'm curious as to what policies people have encountered to ensure that employees take all of their annual leave entitlement?

I manage a small office and we don't carry over annual leave from one year to the next. As the team is quite small (first come first served rule applies to leave requests) I want to try to minimise any issue with staff either losing untaken leave or holding leave over until the last minute and then me not be in a position to grant a request to let them have the whole month of December off for example. At the same time in my own working life I've never experienced a policy that said, for example, that x amount of days had to be taken before November or whatever.

Use it or lose it is a fine system, but in small business it can be more difficult as not everyone can be off at the same time.

Over an entire year it should be possible - it just needs to be planned. Do you have quiet periods during the year?

GarIT

Just have a rule that all holidays for the year must be booked 6 months in advance. Hand everybody a form in jan/feb asking when they want their holidays for the year, everyone will fill it in so they get the time they want. Then that only x amount of people can holiday at one time.

and other disasters

We do have quiet times, and the team know when they are. Conveniently they are in the Summer months which would usually bode well for people with children or people who enjoy taking sun holidays etc.

I'm concerned about one employee I have who has yet to take any leave and has none booked either. I would have had various conduct issues with him so I am concerned he may save all his leave until December, knowing I couldn't approve that kind of leave at that time of year, and then say that I am preventing him from taking his statutory entitlement. Believe me when I say it's a distinct possibility that he would do that.

The common sense approach would be to have a discussion about it and encourage them to ensure they use all their holiday days before year end. This employee's approach is 'if it's not in the employee manual I don't have to do it' which is what leads me to look for an actual policy on when the time is to be taken.

smcgiff

What is the company policy?

Employees must arrange their holidays with their employer. An employer has a duty to be reasonable, but will have a care to ensure their business will continue to function.

Ask the Employee to give you their preferred holidays between now and the end of the year ensuring their entitlement is used up. See if this suits the business, agree a compromise if they don't.

It's up you you to plan/arrange this.

GarIT

and other disasters wrote: »

We do have quiet times, and the team know when they are. Conveniently they are in the Summer months which would usually bode well for people with children or people who enjoy taking sun holidays etc.

I'm concerned about one employee I have who has yet to take any leave and has none booked either. I would have had various conduct issues with him so I am concerned he may save all his leave until December, knowing I couldn't approve that kind of leave at that time of year, and then say that I am preventing him from taking his statutory entitlement. Believe me when I say it's a distinct possibility that he would do that.

The common sense approach would be to have a discussion about it and encourage them to ensure they use all their holiday days before year end. This employee's approach is 'if it's not in the employee manual I don't have to do it' which is what leads me to look for an actual policy on when the time is to be taken.

Just tell them holidays have to be booked 6 months in advance, so he has do decide when he wants his holidays or loose them by the end of the month.

and other disasters

smcgiff wrote: »

What is the company policy?

Employees must arrange their holidays with their employer. An employer has a duty to be reasonable, but will have a care to ensure their business will continue to function.

Ask the Employee to give you their preferred holidays between now and the end of the year ensuring their entitlement is used up. See if this suits the business, agree a compromise if they don't.

It's up you you to plan/arrange this.

Company policy is that a month's notice has to be given for leave requests of a week or longer. A day here and there can be approved with one week's notice. Leave does not carry over, and it's in the manual that requests are approved in line with business needs and may be refused. We've also had the conversation about that to reiterate the point.

and other disasters

Thanks for the suggestion of asking them to submit their preferred leave dates for the rest of the year- that actually hadn't crossed my mind!

orchidsrpretty

In a couple of places I've worked, we were required to take 1 week before April 2 weeks between April and September and one week before end December. It worked ok, they were flexible if you wanted different dates. But it ensured that people who were holiday hoarding had to take time off during the year

Pappacharlie

You could introduce a leave sheet signed by all staff. Seniority may be helpful when deciding who signs the sheet first. You should decide how many can be in leave at the same time in order to facilitate the smooth running of your business. For example at quiet times you could have two or three on leave. Equally busy periods (December) could be excluded from the leave period. Issue the sheet in good time Feb/March so people can plan their leave requirements. Also let people sign full weeks as you may get individuals who may sign long weekends and spoil the choice of others. In order to make it fair you could rotate the signing of the sheet, one year seniors first then next year juniors first. Just a thought.

Bigcheeze

and other disasters wrote: »

Use it or lose it is a fine system, but in small business it can be more difficult as not everyone can be off at the same time.

Use it or lose it is not a fine system as it's illegal. You as the employer have the legal responsibility to ensure people take their holidays.

However you don't have to give employees all their holidays when they want. For example you could insist all employees take at least 2 weeks during June-August.....IF you set that policy say 6 months in advance, not now.

You mention one employee who doesn't take holidays. If this person is in a accounts position or handling money it should raise alarm bells.

smcgiff

and other disasters wrote: »

Company policy is that a month's notice has to be given for leave requests of a week or longer. A day here and there can be approved with one week's notice. Leave does not carry over, and it's in the manual that requests are approved in line with business needs and may be refused. We've also had the conversation about that to reiterate the point.

The above is a good policy for reasonable employees, but if holidays start to build up an employee should be told/retold in writing that holidays don't carry over and wont be paid. If not arranged to be taken before year end they WILL be lost.

Bigcheeze

smcgiff wrote: »

If not arranged to be taken before year end they WILL be lost.

Against the law I'm afraid.

beauf

I'd have assumed they can't lose them but could be forced to take them at an inconvenient time.

In our office some people have been told they have to take it a certain time. A good few never take holidays. They also build up massive hours but there is a policy that sets limits on that and they lose any surplus at the end of the month.

Some people don't like holidays. Or can't afford them.

smcgiff

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Against the law I'm afraid.

"In general, an employee's annual leave must be taken within the leave year to which it relates. However, with an employee's consent it can be taken within 6 months of the next leave year.

It is an employer's responsibility to ensure workers take their full statutory entitlement in the appropriate leave period. You may also, with your employer's consent, carry over to the next leave year, holidays in excess of the statutory minimum."

twowheelsonly

It would be a good idea to set a policy in place now for next year detailing when staff can/cannot take their leave. Probably too late for this year. I would however put up a notice or notify all staff now that that no leave will be permitted on dates x/y/z. Once it's clear to everybody then they can have no argument and it's up to themselves to use up their entitlement.
IMO 6 Months notice is too much - I hardly know what I'm doing tomorrow not to mind 6 months time!!
Most people also have to arrange their leave around others, spouse/friends/kids etc so 6 months might be a bit of an ask.

As stated the 'use it or lose it' policy is against the law despite company policy. It's one of those things that has to be sorted by negotiation with staff to get them to use their leave up. A big factor in that too is if you refuse someone leave at any stage then you cannot touch any hours that they may carry over.

and other disasters

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to go down the route of raising at the next team meeting that they submit their preferred leave dates for the rest of the year to use up the majority of their leave entitlements so that odd days can be kept to use if they need them here and there.

We have leave sheets and there are no blackout dates during our year, the only reason I've had to refuse a leave request was that there were people already off on those dates. I'm trying to ensure the best outcome for my staff and the business.

sassyj

A shared annual leave calendar could help - we all have access to a calendar on our email and you can see who has booked off what. Encourages people to book their annual leave in advance so that they won't be refused as others are off.

smcgiff

Twowheelsonly,

There are circumstances where if you don't use them you most certainly lose them. If an employer or their agent asks an employee for their holiday dates and if the employee doesn't engage (afte they've been notified of the legal position) or works the days off anyway. Then the employee 100% loses unused holidays not taken in a year.

davo10

OP as employer I can only tell you what we do. Each employee has a contract outlining entitlement of holiday leave. Due to the nature of our business (small enterprise like your own) no two employees can take holiday at the same time and the longest serving staff get first preference in holidays ( I think this is fair). There are certain times during the year where leave cannot be taken ( three weeks before Christmas) and certain times when leave must be taken ( between Christmas and new year, this was requested by staff some years ago and everyone is happy not having to work these days). No holiday leave is allowed to be carried over so it is up to each staff member to request holiday leave 8 weeks in advance. Every June 1st I make it a point of reminding staff of their right to book holidays as per their contract. It is against the law to pay someone en lieu of holiday leave. With this I feel I have fulfilled my obligations as an employer.

Eoin

sassyj's suggestion sounds practical - that way you can get them to try and agree amongst themselves first if there is a conflict.

Another (possibly less popular) option would be to make certain days mandatory holidays, if that wouldn't be a problem for the business (e.g. Good Friday, Christmas week etc).

smcgiff wrote: »

Twowheelsonly,

There are circumstances where if you don't use them you most certainly lose them. If an employer or their agent asks an employee for their holiday dates and if the employee doesn't engage (afte they've been notified of the legal position) or works the days off anyway. Then the employee 100% loses unused holidays not taken in a year.

That's what I thought was the case, as the links I could find said that employees must be given the opportunity to take their entitlement, not that the employer must make them take it off. Although I can see how that could be open to abuse by employers.

We have a use it or lose it policy in work, but we get more than the statutory minimum, so there's a good chance we'd only lose days that are extra days off anyway.

therecklessone

smcgiff wrote: »

Twowheelsonly,

There are circumstances where if you don't use them you most certainly lose them. If an employer or their agent asks an employee for their holiday dates and if the employee doesn't engage (afte they've been notified of the legal position) or works the days off anyway. Then the employee 100% loses unused holidays not taken in a year.

Statutory annual leave cannot simply be taken away.

The time(s) at which an employee takes leave are decided by the employer, so if a employee refuses to engage in a reasonable agreed process to apply for preferred leave the employer is within their rights to allocate leave subject to the relevant notification period in the Organisation of Working Time Act (one month)

OP, it seems your problem is with one individual not the whole team. Be careful you don't use a sledge hammer to crack a nut here, lest you cause resentment among the rest of the staff. Regardless of this individual's attitude, you should speak to him and point out (a) he has half the year left to take his entitlement, (b) company policy is that leave is subject to business needs, and (c) legislation states he must take the leave in the leave year. If he counters with a right to carry over, then point out that company policy is that carry over is not permitted.

Give him a reasonable amount of time to apply for all of his leave (say until the end of the month) then if he has not done so tell all staff members that leave for the last three months of the year must be applied for no later than 1st September. That gives you time to discuss alternatives with any individual you can't accommodate and/or enough notification time to allocate leave to those who choose not to engage.

therecklessone

Eoin wrote: »

We have a use it or lose it policy in work, but we get more than the statutory minimum, so there's a good chance we'd only lose days that are extra days off anyway.

We have similar, and I have previously been advised by a trade union official that only extra leave can be lost in that way.

my teapot is orange

davo10 wrote: »

OP as employer I can only tell you what we do. Each employee has a contract outlining entitlement of holiday leave. Due to the nature of our business (small enterprise like your own) no two employees can take holiday at the same time and the longest serving staff get first preference in holidays ( I think this is fair). There are certain times during the year where leave cannot be taken ( three weeks before Christmas) and certain times when leave must be taken ( between Christmas and new year, this was requested by staff some years ago and everyone is happy not having to work these days). No holiday leave is allowed to be carried over so it is up to each staff member to request holiday leave 8 weeks in advance. Every June 1st I make it a point of reminding staff of their right to book holidays as per their contract. It is against the law to pay someone en lieu of holiday leave. With this I feel I have fulfilled my obligations as an employer.

I'm not sure about this. I think it would be fairer if they took turns taking priority when there is a clash. Under this system one person could have priority over another for years.

smcgiff

therecklessone wrote: »

Statutory annual leave cannot simply be taken away.

Agreed. Now, who said such a thing?

smcgiff

my teapot is orange wrote: »

I'm not sure about this. I think it would be fairer if they took turns taking priority when there is a clash. Under this system one person could have priority over another for years.

I agree. Seems unfair.

davo10

my teapot is orange wrote: »

I'm not sure about this. I think it would be fairer if they took turns taking priority when there is a clash. Under this system one person could have priority over another for years.

Yip, on the basis that, staff that have been there longer have preference on holiday dates. This is fair, and is written into each employees contract, they know from the outset and agree to it. I have had the same staff for years and there has never been an issue as everyone knows the policy. I took on a new member of staff 2 months ago and I explained the policy at interview.

The more experienced staff tend to take holidays based on school terms, the younger staff tend to want to avoid these more expensive holiday times. Everyone wants to be off between Xmas and new year.

and other disasters

We do have a leave planner on the wall so everyone can see at a glance what days/weeks are booked and what are free. Last year the employee I'm concerned about wanted a week someone else had booked and then tried to pressure that employee into cancelling their week off so they could take it instead. That became the subject of disciplinary in the end which I think is why they're trying to make a point with me by not taking any leave so far this year :rolleyes:

There are bigger conduct issues but the leave question is one I can see them turning around to use against me (what do you mean I can't take the whole of December off?! I'm entitled to my holidays! etc). I'm trying to pre-empt that now in as fair a way as possible.

mrsbyrne

smcgiff wrote: »

The above is a good policy for reasonable employees, but if holidays start to build up an employee should be told/retold in writing that holidays don't carry over and wont be paid. If not arranged to be taken before year end they WILL be lost.

Its illegal to have a use it or lose it policy re holidays. Totally illegal.
Its up to the business administrator to see to it that staff take their a/l by years end. If you can't manage that you'll have to carry it over and be in a bigger mess next year. Its not difficult. Call a small meeting, hand out holiday request sheets, say you need to know everybody's A/L requirements until 31December. If they need to keep days for the Crimbo period point those days out. Pick a date, say 10 days later, by which the holiday sheets need to be returned.
Make it clear that this is an order, not a suggestion.
If the employee you mention doesn't cooperate, then you will have to confront him. Have the legislation regarding holidays printed off . Point out that legislation trumps the staff handbook . Point out that you are perfectly within your legal rights to stipulate that there wil be no A/L in December.
and if he still refuses to cooperate you can commence disciplinary procedure.

Nody

and other disasters wrote: »

We do have a leave planner on the wall so everyone can see at a glance what days/weeks are booked and what are free. Last year the employee I'm concerned about wanted a week someone else had booked and then tried to pressure that employee into cancelling their week off so they could take it instead. That became the subject of disciplinary in the end which I think is why they're trying to make a point with me by not taking any leave so far this year :rolleyes:

There are bigger conduct issues but the leave question is one I can see them turning around to use against me (what do you mean I can't take the whole of December off?! I'm entitled to my holidays! etc). I'm trying to pre-empt that now in as fair a way as possible.

They don't have the right to pick their holidays though so simply tell them that the weeks X and Y they are going to be off (at least one month's notice to the first week) as they did not book anything to date. If they complain about it you simply highlight it's their responsibility to book their holidays in a timely manner and as they did not you had to do it for them to ensure compliance with the law. Your problem solved AND you've sent them the message to not be a moron about their holidays.

tenifan

A previous employer of mine repeatedly asked a staff member to book annual leave during the calendar year as no days could be carried forward. In December, they allocated her a day a week for 5 weeks (random days like Tuesday and Wednesday).
The staff member got their rest, the employer fulfilled their obligation to provide annual leave.

smcgiff

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Its illegal to have a use it or lose it policy re holidays. Totally illegal.

IF. AN. EMPLOYEE. REFUSES. TO. TAKE. HOLIDAYS. THEY. DO. NOT. AUTOMATICALLY. GET. TO. CARRY. THEM. FORWARD.

To take an example to clarify.

Manager arranges with an office based employee to take his so far untaken 3 days statutory holidays between christmas day and new year. Holidays are written up on holiday roster. The manager is off for that particular week.

However, the employee still comes in and works the full week.

Is anyone in doubt that the employee cannot carry forward these 3 days and that the employee loses them?

Mrs OBumble

Another option is to use peer pressure: announce to all employees that unless outstanding leave is booked by the start of September, you will be allocating days at your convenience and with no regard given to employee preferences. Your staff are not dumb, they will work out who might be the cause of this threat.

The risk you have is that problem employee might turn around and call in sick on the days when you've booked them on annual leave. So if your sick leave is paid, this strategy won't work.

In short, as an employer you have to be 100% polite at all times to the problem children - but yet incredible hard-ass in your dealings with them.

Is there a union in your workplace? Could you suggest one to your staff? People think that unions are not welcomed by management, but in fact sometimes they can be very useful becasuse they don't have to be polite to people who are behaving lick dickheads. A union delegate can say things that a manager simply can't.

mrsbyrne

smcgiff wrote: »

IF. AN. EMPLOYEE. REFUSES. TO. TAKE. HOLIDAYS. THEY. DO. NOT. AUTOMATICALLY. GET. TO. CARRY. THEM. FORWARD.

To take an example to clarify.

Manager arranges with an office based employee to take his so far untaken 3 days statutory holidays between christmas day and new year. Holidays are written up on holiday roster. The manager is off for that particular week.

However, the employee still comes in and works the full week.

Is anyone in doubt that the employee cannot carry forward these 3 days and that the employee loses them?

IMHO in the case you quote the employer should immediately proceed directly to the disciplinary procedure, because i would presume that if the business was being properly managed that this ridiculous standoff would only have occurred despite every effort on the employers side to inform the employee of his responsibilities regarding A/L. Despite these efforts the employee disregards orders and this is total insubordination and warrants severe penalties.

smcgiff

Regardless. Do you accept holidays can be lost due an employee not cooperating?

Bigcheeze

smcgiff wrote: »

Agreed. Now, who said such a thing?

You did and you damn well know it. You had no idea that "use it or lose it" was illegal until others posted it on this thread.

Yet in classic boardsie fashion you retrospectively justify your earlier post with straw man arguments.

smcgiff

Bigcheeze wrote: »

You did and you damn well know it. You had no idea that "use it or lose it" was illegal until others posted it on this thread.

Yet in classic boardsie fashion you retrospectively justify your earlier post with straw man arguments.

Dear god - can people not put words into my mouth.

I've stated it's incumbent on the company to manage the process. I have said people can lose holidays. I've never used such a crude phrase as use it or lose it.

mrsbyrne

smcgiff wrote: »

Regardless. Do you accept holidays can be lost due an employee not cooperating?

Yes I do. That employee would have little or no chance taking a case to the Rights Commissener. But i stand by my assertion that an employee who is as non compliant as you describe does not merely need to lose their A/L entitlement, disciplinary measures are essential.

_Brian

smcgiff wrote: »

Twowheelsonly,

There are circumstances where if you don't use them you most certainly lose them. If an employer or their agent asks an employee for their holiday dates and if the employee doesn't engage (afte they've been notified of the legal position) or works the days off anyway. Then the employee 100% loses unused holidays not taken in a year.

I had this conversation with an IBEC barrister and his take was that the employer should schedule an employee out on leave rather than take away leave. There is a potential lea gal issue of an employee say were injured and haddent been on leave in a long period and perhaps was refused leave at some stage. Mental fatigue could also become an issue.
It's best make them take the time off than risk any issue down the road. Yes, this is a lot of ass covering, but that's what managers must do.

mrsbyrne

Would the OPs company consider actually closing for 2 weeks in the summer if as they say, business is very quiet?it can be a very good idea.

smcgiff

_Brian wrote: »

I had this conversation with an IBEC barrister and his take was that the employer should schedule an employee out on leave rather than take away leave. There is a potential lea gal issue of an employee say were injured and haddent been on leave in a long period and perhaps was refused leave at some stage. Mental fatigue could also become an issue.
It's best make them take the time off than risk any issue down the road. Yes, this is a lot of ass covering, but that's what managers must do.

Yes, the OP may possibly need to go down this route. And, it's never about taking away leave. It's whether or not the employee avails of the leave within the peroid.

and other disasters

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Would the OPs company consider actually closing for 2 weeks in the summer if as they say, business is very quiet?it can be a very good idea.

Unfortunately we can't due to other issues, we stay open even if we're quiet. We do close for around 2 weeks over the Christmas/New Year period, which this employee takes issue with as they are an atheist. Nevertheless we do enforce the closure and everyone is off for that 2 week period.

As an aside I used the 'use it or lose it' analogy in one of my first posts. Apologies if that caused some offence. A few years ago I worked in the public service and had a colleague who for whatever reason never, ever took holiday days. Every January our boss would go to her and say she needed to take all of the previous year's entitlement by April, and that if she hadn't submitted her leave plans by the end of January they would allocate her the time off anyway. She/They would schedule time out and then she would randomly show up halfway through the day/week, saying she would work without clocking in so it looked on the time system like she was out on holiday.

She would invariably lose some of her entitlement every year beyond this simply because she refused to schedule the remainder of her leave days/adhere to the leave schedule she was given but I could not say either way about whether it was her statutory days or merely those in excess of her entitlement she was losing.

LynnGrace

One company I worked in used the leave sheet, as described upthread, with senior people first, and so on. Everyone booked their main two weeks, first time around, and then it went around again. It worked quite well.

Mrs OBumble

OP, one more thought for you: can you chance the leave-year so it doesn't end in December, but instead ends in a period where someone can have the last month off? You would need a transition period, of course, and it seems a bit drastic if there is only one problem employee, but it may be an option.