Water Charge Sneaky Allowance Rip Off

Now I've no problem with paying for my water. I've already taken a few measures to restrict future water use for when the charges come in. I was relatively happy with the allowance Irish Water were to give.

But I feel that this is just plain sneaky. We will not be allowed carry over surplus water from one day to the next.

Is this sneaky do you think?

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/use-it-or-lose-it-plans-for-water-allowances-spark-hygiene-fears-30425778.html

Heroditas

Do the meters even log data at that level of granularity?

Cee-Jay-Cee

In order to read that small the meters are going to have to store information on a daily basis unlike electricity meters which simply count units. It's going to make the billing process very complicated and probably expensive too.

Are the meters going to be read remotely akin to phone billing or will someone have to take readings from individual meters every month or two?

KungPao

Could result in the ol yellow mellow brown flush it down scenario. Or in Brazil, people go to parks that have taps with drinking water and they fill up big containers and take it home.

Capt'n Midnight

if you pump rainwater back into the tap would that make the meter run backwards ?

cloud493

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

if you pump rainwater back into the tap would that make the meter run backwards ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HBBf_eDLM

DazMarz

Run the gas off the electricity and the electricity off the gas, and you can save €200 a year. But avoid getting new boilers.

Steppenwolfe

I can't see them getting away with that. It would be seriously taking the piss if they did.

dxhound2005

DazMarz wrote: »

Run the gas off the electricity and the electricity off the gas, and you can save €200 a year. But avoid getting new boilers.

But people are using the gas to run televisions in rooms where nobody is watching them. That is a waste of the gas.

Frosty McSnowballs

This country is just full of dickheads. People with these ideas and similar need a dose of reality.

In the form of a savage backhander to the face once they come out with this bollox.

dxhound2005

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

This country is just full of dickheads. People with these ideas and similar need a dose of reality.

In the form of a savage backhander to the face once they come out with this bollox.

I agree. The Independent is full of rubbish like this all the time.

Heroditas

CJC999 wrote: »

Are the meters going to be read remotely akin to phone billing or will someone have to take readings from individual meters every month or two?

Apparently they'll be read as a van drives around slowly picking up a signal from each meter. The meter reader doesn't need to open each cover and take a manual read.
I'm open to correction but I think each meter has an RF transmitter in it

woodoo

I'll bet this is just part of the softening up game the government play. Leak info on the water charges being based on a daily allowance and then say in Jan 2015 that it actually won't be charged that way and people are relieved and don't kick up as big a fuss.

Banjo String

Surely they mean you can't carry over unused units to the next month, similar to mobile phone contracts with your minute /data allowance ?

shedweller

Heroditas wrote: »

Apparently they'll be read as a van drives around slowly picking up a signal from each meter. The meter reader doesn't need to open each cover and take a manual read.
I'm open to correction but I think each meter has an RF transmitter in it

Welcome to the 21st century! That kind of thing is old school these days.
The main point is that this is NOT about paying for water but rather, is to help pay back a load of money to private investors that gambled and lost an almighty amount of zeroes from their accounts. We should never forget that or dress it up in something else.
Just reminding people of that fact...

Gael23

I don't think 30,000 litres is a sufficient allowance. I make that about 85 litres per household per day. Given that an average person uses around 150 litres every day, thats a massive gap.
To put it in context 85 litres is using a washing machine twice a day, thats before you include showers, toilets and even drinking water

shedweller

ryanf1 wrote: »

I don't think 30,000 litres is a sufficient allowance. I make that about 85 litres per household per day. Given that an average person uses around 150 litres every day, thats a massive gap.
To put it in context 85 litres is using a washing machine twice a day, thats before you include showers, toilets and even drinking water

You're wasting your time on that. Its not about the water. They have said they will raise prices if we cut down on water usage.
Therefore its not about saving water. Its bailout money. Private to public debt.
Shafted again, in other words.

Its hard to believe that people aren't giving out about this. Yet when a country and western singer cancels some concerts its headline news, with public uproar and TDs falling over themselves to have their say.

Maybe we deserve what we get.

generalmental

Thing that gets to me is that the meters are concreted into the ground. How are we supposed to check our usage...It seems to me that they will give you a bill and you just have to pay it no questions asked.

Bunch of cnuts

AMCCORK

generalmental wrote: »

Thing that gets to me is that the meters are concreted into the ground. How are we supposed to check our usage...It seems to me that they will give you a bill and you just have to pay it no questions asked.

Bunch of cnuts

Yes this is the part that really bugs me. I want to check what I am being charged. I can check my phone, esb and gas so why not this?

generalmental

AMCCORK wrote: »

Yes this is the part that really bugs me. I want to check what I am being charged. I can check my phone, esb and gas so why not this?

I think the kind of charging that they will go for will be the magic metering system.....IE lets just pull a figure out of the hat and the passive morons will just pay it.

I think we would be better off in North Korea. At least they don't pretend its not a dictatorship

The Th!ng

Any politician involved in the introduction of water charges should be drowned in a barrel of their own piss.

animaal

shedweller wrote: »

You're wasting your time on that. Its not about the water. They have said they will raise prices if we cut down on water usage.
Therefore its not about saving water. Its bailout money. Private to public debt.
Shafted again, in other words.

This. But I'd go further. If it was just about taking more of our money, it could instead have been a fixed water charge, without the expense of installing meters, setting up a new trough semi state company, etc. A fixed charge would be cheaper to run, and easy in the future to reduce, abolish, or fold into some other local tax.

Setting up Irish Water makes it impossible to do any of those things in the future. We're stuck with it forever. I'd like to know whether it was done on instructions from our friends in Europe (with a longer-term goal of privatisation), or whether it's just a way for the government to shovel our money in a politically advantageous direction.

Busted Flat.

animaal wrote: »

This. But I'd go further. If it was just about taking more of our money, it could instead have been a fixed water charge, without the expense of installing meters, setting up a new trough semi state company, etc. A fixed charge would be cheaper to run, and easy in the future to reduce, abolish, or fold into some other local tax.

Setting up Irish Water makes it impossible to do any of those things in the future. We're stuck with it forever. I'd like to know whether it was done on instructions from our friends in Europe (with a longer-term goal of privatisation), or whether it's just a way for the government to shovel our money in a politically advantageous direction.

Guess who the new owner will be.

Hootanany

Busted Flat. wrote: »

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Guess who the new owner will be.

Yes its sickoning can we do anything about it if be buys it?

Pumpkinseeds

These stories are a nonsense. People in other countries have had to pay for water for years. Anyone who uses water charges as an excuse for a lack of basic hygiene should have their kids put into care. There's a lot of scare mongering about water charges. I don't want to pay them anymore than anyone else does, but they're a fact of life.

We had to pay them when we lived in the UK and all it means is that people are more aware of water wastage. Those of us without kids will be paying more than families anyway, so enough with the hand wringing. Anyone blocking the water meter installers outside my house will have a swift foot up the arse. It's gonna happen, just accept it and move on instead of boring everyone to death.

jodaw

animaal wrote: »

Setting up Irish Water makes it impossible to do any of those things in the future. We're stuck with it forever. I'd like to know whether it was done on instructions from our friends in Europe (with a longer-term goal of privatisation), or whether it's just a way for the government to shovel our money in a politically advantageous direction.

Of course it was it was one of the coniditions of the IMF bailout. We, like the muppets we are, will pay to set up the infastructure and then when everything is running smooth, it will be sold at a knockdown price to a private water company. Money in the bank for them.

And in other news Veolia is actively recruiting permanent staff in Ireland.

Veolia Water (formerly Vivendi Water, originally Générale des Eaux), is the water division of the French company Veolia Environnement and the world's largest supplier of water services.
Veolia has water operations in 66 countries across the globe, employing 95,789 workers worldwide and serving completely or partly about 64 metropolitan areas with more than 139 million inhabitants. It is strongest in Europe, particularly in its native France and Germany. Its biggest competitor is Suez Environnement.
In 2009, the group posted revenues of €12.56 billion.[2] Of this, 72.9% of turnover comes from Europe; 7.4% from the Americas, 8.5% from Africa, Middle East and India, and 11.2% from the Asia-Pacific region.[3]


*coming soon to a bill near you

Hootanany

Not a hope we all know who will own it.

Badger2009

generalmental wrote: »

Thing that gets to me is that the meters are concreted into the ground. How are we supposed to check our usage...It seems to me that they will give you a bill and you just have to pay it no questions asked.

Bunch of cnuts

Just lift the lid and the meter is there to be read - same as ESB etc. It is not "concreted in the ground".

There will be an app for your phone that will allow you to check your usage remotely. It has not been released yet.

suicide_circus

Badger2009 wrote: »

Just lift the lid and the meter is there to be read - same as ESB etc. It is not "concreted in the ground".

There will be an app for your phone that will allow you to check your usage remotely. It has not been released yet.

Oh cool, hadn't heard about the app, thats pretty handy

Phoebas

AMCCORK wrote: »

Yes this is the part that really bugs me. I want to check what I am being charged. I can check my phone, esb and gas so why not this?

Do people not bother to check the facts anymore before getting angry on the internet.

From Irish Water:

Can I read an Irish Water meter?

The meter will be installed at the stopvalve on the public footpath, and so while it is possible to read the meter it is not envisioned that you will need to do so. A drive-by meter reading will be conducted on meters by Irish Water staff.

shedweller

Hootanany wrote: »

Not a hope we all know who will own it.

I'd wager that denis o brien will have a hand in it. Its simply too lucrative a market to ignore and he has the connections and ill gotten money to do it.

darkpagandeath

Welcome to the new 2 tier society, People like me in apartments can sit with the shower on all day and all the taps and pay a flat fee. It's just another tax It’s nothing what so ever to do with saving water. If it was they would have started off repairing the pipes that lead to 40% of the drinking water going into the ground.

UCDVet

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Welcome to the new 2 tier society, People like me in apartments can sit with the shower on all day and all the taps and pay a flat fee. It's just another tax It’s nothing what so ever to do with saving water. If it was they would have started off repairing the pipes that lead to 40% of the drinking water going into the ground.

I'm going to run the cold water in my shower 24/7 to spin a small turbine that will generate (a tiny) amount of electricity. While everyone else is paying for water, I'm going to be wasting tons of it to save a few cents charging my cell phone.

Good times.

Also - if anyone with a house wants to buy some water - I'll hook you up for a good price.

shedweller

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm going to run the cold water in my shower 24/7 to spin a small turbine that will generate (a tiny) amount of electricity. While everyone else is paying for water, I'm going to be wasting tons of it to save a few cents charging my cell phone.

Good times.

Also - if anyone with a house wants to buy some water - I'll hook you up for a good price.

Now if the esb paid a decent figure for power generated thusly, you would be onto a winner there! Awesome idea!!

Busted Flat.

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm going to run the cold water in my shower 24/7 to spin a small turbine that will generate (a tiny) amount of electricity. While everyone else is paying for water, I'm going to be wasting tons of it to save a few cents charging my cell phone.

Good times.

Also - if anyone with a house wants to buy some water - I'll hook you up for a good price.

Gas was the best one in Wales, They had the same connection on either sides of the meter. Once the meter reader called, you turned the meter around for the next while.