A question for serious novelists

Rubecula

Have you ever written a story on the fly?

No plans at all, just sat down and wrote a bit, then added bits as you thought of them?

Did it ever work out for you?

Duckee

Hi,

I haven't posted in this forum before and I'm probably not the droid you're looking for as I couldn't really classify myself as a serious novelist but I have written some plays, parts of novels and some short stories and would like to take it more seriously.

Anyway, your question peaked my interest and got me thinking about my own writing process. To be honest, I couldn't write so much as a shopping list without having a plan. I need to have an elaborate blueprint of where I expect the story to go before I even think of writing chapters, scenes, etc.

Of course once I actually start writing I need to be flexible enough to deviate from the outline so I imagine if I wasn't quite so ridged then writing without a plan in mind would be possible.

I completed a diploma in creative writing several years ago and in class we would spend the first 30 minutes or so free-writing. I generally found what I wrote during these sessions to be terrible and often descended into self pitying rants or sections of dialogue for mary-sue type characters.

I've heard of writers though who will often start with no plan, claiming that they'd be bored if they knew exactly what was going to happen next. I'd love to hear from anyone who writes in this way and what the process is like for them - especially given that it's so alien to my own experience.

Das Kitty

I do!

I can't write with a plan, it drives me mental. I do have a vague idea where I'm going to finish. And I have an idea about what I'm going to write on a given day.

I'm writing a part of something at the moment, where one of two people talking has to get annoyed with the other and take off. I don't know what it is yet, but I know both characters well enough to know that it will emerge in the writing process.

I end up with a first draft that is muck, but then that's common to pretty much every first draft so it doesn't bother me.

I like to go back over things I've finished (because then I know what it's actually about) and amend the story to highlight the parts that support the story and snip out the parts that are surplus.

Antilles

I read Stephen King's "On Writing" just before I started, and wrote a 80,000 word novel entirely seat-of-the-pants, no planning involved.

It was an unmitigated disaster.

I'm sure there were parts of it that were salvageable, but it would be charitable to hope those parts would total 10,000 words, and even finding those halfway readable bits would have required far too much effort.

I saved the file away so I can give it to my college library after I've written my twentieth bestseller, but until then my unplanned novel will never see the light of day.

For what its worth, I'm convinced that Stephen King is against planning because he has internalised all the rules and structures that he needs to use, so whenever he starts to write, his subconscious is already planning the story without him realising it.

Rubecula

I have to say that the answers you (pretty wonderful really) people show the vast range of differernces between everyone.

The reason I asked in the first place is simple. I want to try to write without a plan. Maybe just a short story to get me started.

Why? Well I have come to realise that when I make a plan I find it hard to stick to, but worse than that I find that trying to stick to the plan tends to make me feel like I am a slave to it all. I like to write, I like to read. However when it becomes a chore it loses all pleasantries for me.

I was really curious as to how it works out for other folks, especially those who are demonstratively better at this than a mere dabbler like myself.

As you probably have not noticed I have not taken part in the ARENA for that reason. I have trouble sticking to a plan. (Although I have made a few attempts at VOAT .... what ever has happened to VOAT anyway? Must be time for another)

Anyway, I came here to the forum on a recommendation of a friend from another forum who enjoyed a series of posts I wrote there. They were unplanned, but true so no planning was required. Yet, I think they are the best things I have written on Boards.ie. At least they provided laughs and giggles for others who read them, and to me that is important. Not the quality of the writing, but the entertainment derived from it.

Duckee

This is really interesting stuff.:) I think what it shows is that there a no hard and fast rules to the creative process.

What works for me is that I don't ever feel constrained by the plans that I make. If I start writing and part of my plan no longer feels write, then I alter the plan. What I've learned over the years though is that having a clear outline frees me from having writers block because all of the 'blockiness' arises at the planning stage. When I'm actually writing and I get to a part where I feel stuck, I'll just stop, go back to the plan and work on a different section.

I'd be curious to hear from those who just sit down and write whether or not they write in a linear fashion. I often write scenes out of context and out of order and then try to piece it together later like a jigsaw puzzle. The outlines then give me a clear picture of what pieces I have and where they should go later on.

Duckee

hehe. 'feels right' I mean. not 'feels write'. :pac:

Rubecula

Duckee wrote: »

hehe. 'feels right' I mean. not 'feels write'. :pac:

I thought that was deliberate :cool:

Brian Lighthouse

I haven't logged into boards in a long time, I am not a serious novelist either. May I throw my tuppence ha'penny worth into this thread?

I think it's important to know where your story is going to end up before you start. I don't mean that you know exactly what will happen to your characters at the end. Having a good idea of what you want to say in the story - or segment - is crucial to avoiding writing yourself off on a tangent or even into that litter strewn, unlit cul-de-sac of boarded up buildings known as writers block.

For example if you want to write on the fly about some topic, let's say a memory of being with your grandfather the day he bought you the biggest 99 ice-cream cone you had ever seen. This is purely an example as just now, a little girl just walked by my open window saying: "Thanks Grandad, I'm stuffed. That was the biggest cone ever!" Before you write about this scenario and all the emotions it evokes, whether planning it or not and for the sake of the reader, you must know what you are going to say about this memory.

What do you want to reader to feel after they have read this story? I feel if you can answer this question before sitting down to write then you will be well able to write a good story that will keep people interested in what you have written.

From my own experience, I have tried two VOAT's on here - I think. Both of them were off-the-cuff and on-the-fly. None of my stories were fascinating or even reader friendly for that matter and I know why. I had not established for myself what I had wanted to say to the reader. I had an idea and ran with it. If I had answered that question of "what do I want to give the reader" I would have been far happier with the result. Most importantly, the readers would have been far happier with the result.

Essentially, what I am saying here is that you do need some form of preparation before you start. It doesn't have to be a detailed plot description or list of characters, yet, I feel the old saying about planning should come into your head before you start and that is: The person with the plan wins.

Rubecula - do you want to write on-the-fly?

Rubecula

Brian Lighthouse wrote: »

I haven't logged into boards in a long time, I am not a serious novelist either. May I throw my tuppence ha'penny worth into this thread?

feel free to voice your opinion and I know you already did so thank you for an excellent post.

Brian Lighthouse wrote: »

Rubecula - do you want to write on-the-fly?

That is intriguing I will give it a try and see what happens, BUT your phraseology indicates you know the source of my name??

GalwayGuy2

@Das Kitty

How do you edit a grotesquerie of a first draft?

Honestly, I hate planning plot. I really, really should, but I hate sitting down and writing something that isn't a story.

I like having it in my subconscious.

Brian Lighthouse

No, no reason for the use of any particular phrase, I don't know about your name. Perhaps there's something you could tell the world by writing about it on-the-fly.

Rubecula

Brian Lighthouse wrote: »

No, no reason for the use of any particular phrase, I don't know about your name. Perhaps there's something you could tell the world by writing about it on-the-fly.

Already started a thread on that very subject. (A Challenge)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057242573

ThePinkCage

There's no hard and fast rule. I tend to start with no plan and throw my thoughts on the page in a fire of passion. When that fire has cooled, I can then take out the best and ditch the rest. If I don't just fire away at it for the first draft, over analysis will stop me writing it. The important thing is that planning does come into it at some stage. For some writers, that's in the early stages and for others, it's later.

EileenG

My first novel was written on the fly. I often had no idea what I was going to write until I sat down to write it. The first draft took three months to write, the editing and rewriting to make it fit for publication took well over a year.

Now I plan my novels before I write. This way, they take about ten to fifteen weeks to write, and about four weeks to edit.

Duckee

Wow! EileenG you sound incredibly prolific. kudos!

Do you find then that the planning process speeds up the writing process or is it more that find you have less editing after the first draft is written?

I'm especially interested as you seem to have completed projects both ways.

EileenG

Both. If you plot out the book first, you always know where you are going, even if you are not sure how you are going to write a particular scene. And plotting first means your story goes in the right direction from the start, so you don't have to go back and rewrite a major chunk.

To be fair, I occasionally think it would be nice to write a story where I haven't plotted so tightly, but seem to have one insane deadline after another, so I can't risk the time to write seat of the pants.

Rubecula

EileenG wrote: »

My first novel was written on the fly. I often had no idea what I was going to write until I sat down to write it. The first draft took three months to write, the editing and rewriting to make it fit for publication took well over a year.

Now I plan my novels before I write. This way, they take about ten to fifteen weeks to write, and about four weeks to edit.

Thank you EileenG, very insightful.

Brian Lighthouse

Rubecula wrote: »

Already started a thread on that very subject. (A Challenge)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057242573

I might give it a go, I won't be free for a while, but I'll let might take up your challenge.

Agent Weebley

Brian Lighthouse wrote: »

I might give it a go, I won't be free for a while, but I'll let might take up your challenge.

Me too. I'm sick of being boxed in.