should i forgive him?

blue_figaro

So it's 1:30am and I'm wide awake again going through everything in my head. I met the man of my dreams in Apr 2012, we moved in together in Sep 2012 and now we've bought our dream house and bought our engagement ring. I'm 31 Hes 34. I was a single mum if a 13 yr old who adores this guy as he's never had a father figure.

Perfect life right? Wrong.
He played in a band in a different county and would sometimes stay at his 'friends' house. I asked if anything happened with her and he said no. Few months later I found a second Facebook acc and he swore it wasn't him that his identity was a stolen. We fought and fought. He moved out until I believed him. I saw a call from her at 3am and he said he didn't know what it was about then he changed his name on his phone. Then I found photos of him and this girl, asked his friend and he told me they had been in a relationship up until Sep 2012. He said yes they had a quick fling before me but that's all and that she was in a relationship now. Told me all about it. I didn't believe him so again he moved out for much longer until I accepted what he was saying.

Then Xmas just gone I found the emails. She had been sending him porn all through 2012/2013 and planing trips and asking him down etc etc. He then broke down and said he had suffered from erectile dysfunction for yrs and that she was very good to him and he felt oblidged to reply to her emails.

All this time the other Facebook pops up and he still swears its not him. Anyway to cut a very long story some way short, before I handed over keys to my own house I finally got up the courage to email the girl in question to ask why is she sending my man porn etc. What she told me floored me. As it turned out, I was the mistress. He had signed up to pof for a one night stand but net me instead. They did have a very loving relationship until Sep 2012 then he broke it off with her by telling her he couldn't have kids and couldn't do that to her. He left the band too which was in the same county. But every now and then he'd have to go back to the area, he'd call her and go over and sleep with her. Until last July. He made sex tapes with her, used vibrators, had anal, and didn't use protection. When I found this out I punched him in the shoulder and his reaction was to punch me in the stomach. I had slapped him before in the face that night so he said he had had enough and reacted...badly. he went on a romantic wk d break with her and forged work documents for me.

So all of this has come out on Monday night. I'm in pieces to say the least. ive been so paranoid and depressed these last 2 years. He wants me to give him another chance. He says he finished the affair last yr and has been a good man since. He said he had spent so many years bit feeling any emotion and sleeping and cheating on everyone that when he met me and fell in love he didn't know what to do to change who he was. He said he felt guilt towards her because she was just as clueless as I was. So he kept going back.

I love him but I hate him. I e asked him to seek professional help for his lies and he wants us to go to counselling together. I'm now moving me and my son back to our small house. I have no idea what to do or to believe him or not. I'm so uunbelievaby lonely. He is my best friend and I never ever in a million yes thought he was capable of all of this. I genuinely thought he was hiding something much smaller. He told me he had never cheated and that despises cheating after growing with with a broken marriage due to cheating. He is not the man I fell in love with but says he can be again.

I can't talk to my family because they absolutely hate him now and want me to end it and say if I don't they'll have nothing more to do with him. His family are serial cheaters and are basically saying to me to be an adult about it, that men think with their penis, and he is so good to stop a yr ago and take one a single mother. I'm being bombarded and I would really really like some advice please.

Big Bag of Chips

He had loads of opportunities to tell you the truth and he never did. It was only when you contacted her directly that he knew the game was up, otherwise he would have continued lying to you, and convincing you that you were wrong.

He also risked your health by having unprotected sex with someone else.

And then, after all that it's still someone else's fault. He couldn't say no because.......

I don't know about you, but I would think that I deserve more than to settle for that.

Just keep in mind, he would have continued, for years, to lie to you and convince you you were wrong if you hadn't confronted him with undeniable proof.

Also when a couple resort to physical violence it is time to take a long hard look at how and why you have gotten to that point. And if its likely to be repeated. There are plenty of men out there. You are only 31, you don't have to settle for a crap relationship.

Even if you do forgive him, could you ever fully trust him? Or would you spend your time checking Facebook, his phone, emails etc?

Merkin

I agree with the above. You'd never in a million years ever be able to trust him again so for that reason alone this is dead in the water. Stay strong and sever contact.

GarIT

All I can say to this is no, you shouldn't ever even talk to him again for so many reasons.

Sleepless and Manic

blue_figaro wrote: »

I can't talk to my family because they absolutely hate him now and want me to end it and say if I don't they'll have nothing more to do with him. His family are serial cheaters and are basically saying to me to be an adult about it, that men think with their penis, and he is so good to stop a yr ago and take one a single mother.

I think those two sentences pretty much sum it up I'm afraid.

Love can be blind but it sounds like your family is already on to this guy.

There's no forgiving this guy because you'll never even know all the details he's lying so much. If you forgive an habitual liar today it doesnt mean he wont continue lying to you tomorrow.

Chattastrophe!

Do you think this man is a good example to your son?

Ten years from now, would you be happy for your son to treat women the way this man treats you? Would you be happy for him to cheat on them, lie to them, be emotionally manipulative and physically violent?

Because it's very possible that this is exactly how your son will turn out if you keep this man in your life as his main role model.

wired117

Op this is guy is smart and manipulative..doesnt sound like he has any remorse.

Taltos

Ah OP

you know what you have to do here. You really do and your family are spot on.

This guys sounds like the father of a friend of mine growing up, he too was in a band - but almost word for word what you wrote there is what we all saw playing out before our eyes. His wife kept taking him back - repeatedly - broken promise after broken promise. It was only years later when the kids were teenagers and saw their mum broken again by his lies / deceit / news of a new step-child that they (not her) took the action of throwing their father out of the house.

They've never recovered fully from having to take the action their mum was too scared to do. They still blame themselves for their father leaving them and choosing "ONE" of his other families.

Your family are spot on - I know you don't want to accept it - but the rage they are feeling is what you should be feeling. He has consistently lied to you your WHOLE relationship. Do you get that? You are in love with a lie. Sorry to be so blunt but you have to step back and ask yourself are you worth so little that you deserve to be treated like this? What about your son? Does he deserve to be scarred by the actions of this selfish ego? What type of life lesson is he picking up here?

As Big Bag of Chips mentioned above as well - there is now violence in this relationship - you have both struck each other - having gone there it is going to be difficult to ever come fully back. Go to your family - find someone to talk to but cut this idiot out of your life for good - you deserve better. (and so does your son).

diveout

This relationship is fraudulent. As Taltos said, you are in love with a lie.

The violence will escalate. I say that because he is not taking responsibility. If he were, I might say you had a chance.

The violence will escalate and you have a child on the scene.

"His family are serial cheaters and are basically saying to me to be an adult about it, that men think with their penis, and he is so good to stop a yr ago and take one a single mother."

^ This is absolute turkey ****. He is trying to turn it on you and also glorify himself. Insane.

I think you already know the answers about what to do. Sorry OP.

Buzz Killington the third

I think it's pretty clear that you should eject him from your life, forever!

But I just want to comment on this;

blue_figaro wrote: »

When I found this out I punched him in the shoulder and his reaction was to punch me in the stomach. I had slapped him before in the face that night so he said he had had enough and reacted...badly.

Disregarding what he did to you, this isn't ok. The minute you get violent in a relationship, the relationship is over. It doesn't matter what he did or said, you should not have him him. His reaction was justified in my opinion. In future relationships just remember that violence is not ok, and another guy might have retaliated even worse!

Big Bag of Chips

Taltos wrote: »

You are in love with a lie.

That is the line that you need to repeat to yourself over and over.

Look at what you said below...

blue_figaro wrote: »

He said he had spent so many years bit feeling any emotion and sleeping and cheating on everyone that when he met me and fell in love he didn't know what to do to change who he was. He said he felt guilt towards her because she was just as clueless as I was. So he kept going back.....

He told me he had never cheated and that despises cheating after growing with with a broken marriage due to cheating. He is not the man I fell in love with but says he can be again.

He can NEVER be the man you fell in love with, because you fell in love with a man who had never cheated, and who promised you he never would cheat. That is a completely different man to the one he actually is. As Taltos said - you fell in love with a lie. Had he told you at the start that he cheated on everyone, would you have fallen in love with him?

Your family care about you. His family care about him. Your family want what's best for you. His family couldn't care less about you (or anyone else by the sounds of it) They just want to make things right for him by telling you his cheating is just something "all men do" - and you should be grateful.

Your parents did not bring you up to be "grateful" to someone so spineless. Your family brought you up to be loved and happy. You are not happy. You never will be happy in that relationship. He's not the Mr Wonderful that you think he is. So you will settle. And he will continue to cheat with others... after all, it's what his family "do".

Please reread the post above by Taltos and keep that one line in your mind. You don't really know this fella at all. You know the side of him he wanted you to see. But it is actually not possible to be 2 completely different people. He cannot be this wonderful man of your dreams that you think he is, and in the background continue an affair, continue lying to you continue to risk your health etc... Really OP - you do not have to be grateful to someone like that - and you shouldn't ever have to look at yourself getting into a relationship and the other person "taking on a single mother" - that is such a damaging way to think. And it sets an uneven balance in a relationship.

TGJD

It may not be what you want to hear but yes and no. Forgive him and let it go because resenting him will just be a burden. But dont let him back in your life. The trust is gone. All that will be left is misery in the guise of happiness. Dont delude yourself, the doubts about his faithfulness will never go away. Move on, there are loads of men who will always be trustworthy.

whitebriar

Ok let's be devils advocate here for a moment.
Do you seriously think the other woman is telling the truth when all she wants is your man?
She could be lying through her teeth and exaggerating everything to enrage you so you dump him.
She could have set up that fb account herself and many other manipulative things.
I'm not saying your man is totally innocent by a long shot but remember some men will be weak like this.

Now let's look at your families opinions.They are bound to be based a lot on hearing your fears and worries (which mightn't have half the grounds anyway that you think they have) so I would park those for now.

My advice to you is,knowing what you know is to make your own decision.Test the guy for another while if you want and see if he is able to stay on your side of the line in the sand now.
If he isn't then dump him.

pc7

I'm so sorry to read all you have gone through, it doesn't read as if there have been many happy days. Only you can know what you want but I can't see you ever ever being able to trust or believe anything he tells you. It will eat away and destroy you, your family love and care for you. If listen to them and move forward with your life and happiness, best of luck for the future.

CaraMay

Op I'm sorry you are going through this but there is really no going forward here. Staying in this relationship would be a terrible example for your child. You can't have a man who doesn't know the truth from a lie as a role model for your son and you don't want him to be raised by a weak woman who was willing to accept the crumbs off a serial cheats table, do you?

If you don't feel string enough for yourself then think of your son and their future. It would not be healthy to have this man in it.

Onwards and upwards op - without this toe rag

bilbot79

Reading your post I was thinking 'This guy has serious issues' but then when you ask 'Should I forgive him?' I'm like 'This girl has serious issues'. Not sure what planet the OP is on but I think this guy landed on your doorstep because you are especially naive.
You need to show yourself respect first and foremost. Show yourself first and foremost that your standards are too high to allow this behaviour. Move on

Flippyfloppy

Allow yourself to forgive him, but move on with your life (without him)

Stavro Mueller

OP would you consider going to counselling yourself? Not couples counselling but to talk to someone by yourself? I feel you badly need to talk to someone impartial who'll help you gain a perspective on things.

blue_figaro

Thank you all for your replies. I've had an awful week and am feel extremely lost and very alone. I have gone back and forward with my decision. One moment I hate him and i feel strong and I feel like I should leave him and the next I miss him so much and want to make it work. I hear what you are all saying, how can I allow this man to be a role model for my son? The next problem I have is this:

I was living in a council house. I havent given back the keys yet. I was due to this week. The mortgage is in bot our names however because he earns vastly more he has put up the money for deposit and solicitors etc. I have paid half of the mortgage payments so far (theres only been two). He has told me if I leave him he will keep the house because he has nothing else. I would be taking away his family etc and I hate take away his home too. the original plan was I would hand back my council house and in exchange I would receive €11,500 off the mortgage spread out over 5 years. It makes it easier for first time buyers to start paying a mortgage. I am not currently staying in the house but have decided that tonight I will. I had previously said I would move everything back to the council house. On my wage alone there is no way i could afford the mortgage by myself. however, because of the money I would receive from the council house I could. If I go back tonight and stay in the house, continue to pay half the mortgage, give back my council house, is there any chance I would be allowed to stay there with my son? Or am i at risk of leaving myself and my son homeless by handing my the council house? This man, as loving as his words can be, is a nasty piece of work and i am finally beginning to see that now. I went this morning to get some clothes for my son and he had a padlock on the gate. he claimed he was afraid my family would kill him. He is also very reluctant to let me stay there and tried to take my key on Monday night when all of this came out because I said I was leaving him.

Yes the house is just bricks and mortar, but if you saw this house you would understand. It's our dream house, an old farmhouse with a woods etc. a perfect place for my son to grow up, right next to my family. If I go back to the council house my son will have to go back to his old school where he was being bullied (the council house is in a different county). I am in desperate need of advice here. Everything is just such a mess.

blue_figaro

cymbaline wrote: »

OP would you consider going to counselling yourself? Not couples counselling but to talk to someone by yourself? I feel you badly need to talk to someone impartial who'll help you gain a perspective on things.

I am definitely seeking some counselling. I had been hurt before so was slow to trust this man, and now I feel like I've been completely and utterly crushed beyond repair.

CaraMay

First stop is citizens advice bureau for practical advice.

You can't live there with your son. It's very disfunctional and god only knows what he has witnessed already.

blue_figaro

CaraMay wrote: »

First stop is citizens advice bureau for practical advice.

You can't live there with your son. It's very disfunctional and god only knows what he has witnessed already.

I'm afraid if I move out I will lose the house. He has promised to stay at his parents house for now. But he is only doing that because he thinks there is a chance we can get back together.

CaraMay

blue_figaro wrote: »

I'm afraid if I move out I will lose the house. He has promised to stay at his parents house for now. But he is only doing that because he thinks there is a chance we can get back together.

Can you not go back to your last house? Move your son to a different school.

This dream you have associated with this house is only a puff of smoke. This guy is a thug and you need to get away.

blue_figaro

CaraMay wrote: »

Can you not go back to your last house? Move your son to a different school.

This dream you have associated with this house is only a puff of smoke. This guy is a thug and you need to get away.

I could I guess very easily go back to the other house, its in a city, in a council estate surrounded by scum. I can't get my son into another school there as it's much too late. He would have to go back into 3rd year into his old school (its a horrible school) and do exams. He has a disease in his eyes which is being sorted but he missed a lot of school last year. Because of this and the move, I decided he should repeat 2nd year in a new school, it was meant to be a fresh start for him. He's having his last operation in Aug. Perfect timing to start the new school year. Now if I go back to the council house I will have to put him right back into that same situation. It's just a mess.

LegacyUser

Before you do another thing about your housing situation, go to a solicitor. Surrender no keys and move nowhere until you do. Your head is all over the shop, make no decisions right now.

CaraMay

You seem to have made up your mind and are ignoring the impact this man will have on your son.... Bullies and scum aren't just other kids.

blue_figaro

CaraMay wrote: »

You seem to have made up your mind and are ignoring the impact this man will have on your son.... Bullies and scum aren't just other kids.

I do not want him to get away with this. It seems so unfair that after what he's done that he gets to keep the house and we have to go back to the way things were. I'm not saying I want to go back to him at all. I'm just wondering do I have any hope at all of keeping this house for me and my son because if I do then I will live there, pay the mortgage and fight for it. I'm not sure what is the best route to take. I don't want to end up with absolutely nothing.

Merkin

I think you're misguidedly viewing this man as your get out clause and an opportunity to live a more privileged life . While material comfort and stability may be attractive you'd be better off in a shack than intrust you and your sons future to a liar who could easily pull the rug out from both of you at a moments notice. Let the chips fall where they may but you need to leave him and never have anything to do with him again!

blue_figaro

Merkin wrote: »

I think you're misguidedly viewing this man as your get out clause and an opportunity to live a more privileged life . While material comfort and stability may be attractive you'd be better off in a shack than intrust you and your sons future to a liar who could easily pull the rug out from both of you at a moments notice. Let the chips fall where they may but you need to leave him and never have anything to do with him again!

I know you are right. And if I was any of my friends I'd say the same. I change my mind so often. One minute i feel like telling him can rot in the house alone for all I care, the next I'm thinking about the work, time and effort I've put into getting the house and how beautiful it is and how dare he take that away from me and my son after what he did. I'm so confused.

Chattastrophe!

You only get one life.

I have a son myself, and I'd honestly rather bring him up by myself on the streets, than have him live in a lovely house with the monster you've described. Never mind about schools or anything - sort that out when the time comes.

He punched you in the stomach - how exactly do you think he'll react when your son acts out in his teenage years? Don't you realise it's very likely that your son is going to end up on the receiving end of some of those punches too?

blue_figaro

I have no intention of going back to him. But should I give up this house? Hes staying at his parents.

Flippyfloppy

I'm assuming from your post you are leaving him but you intend on keeping the house you both bought?

Don't rush & give up on your dream house so quickly. If both of your names are on the mortgage there's no saying he has more right to it legally than you do. It is the 'family home'. So don't worry about leaving the house for now, it's not a case of whoever stays gets to keep it.

If your son was being bullied in the other school it will be worth trying to keep this house. Who cares if your 'ex' is losing everything. It's his fault. Your priority is your son...so fight for your life and your house.

There is other forums on here that deal with the legalities of accomodation & property, seperation etc, where people might know a bit about legalities of who gets what when it comes to houses.

blue_figaro

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

I'm assuming from your post you are leaving him but you intend on keeping the house you both bought?

Don't rush & give up on your dream house so quickly. If both of your names are on the mortgage there's no saying he has more right to it legally than you do. It is the 'family home'. So don't worry about leaving the house for now, it's not a case of whoever stays gets to keep it.

If your son was being bullied in the other school it will be worth trying to keep this house. Who cares if your 'ex' is losing everything. It's his fault. Your priority is your son...so fight for your life and your house.

There is other forums on here that deal with the legalities of accommodation & property, separation etc, where people might know a bit about legalities of who gets what when it comes to houses.

Oh my God, thank you so much. This is what I needed to hear. Yes the mortgage is in both our names and I have been paying half the mortgage. He put up the finances in order to purchase this house but I have helped financially in indirect ways by paying for other things. I will have a look at another forum to get some legal advice. I was worried that if I left it now today i'd never be let back there. He padlocked the gate and I had to sweet talk him to let me in to get some stuff. I'm hoping he will stay away now for a while so things can settle down at least. Thank you so much for all your support and advice. 31 yrs of age and I'm back here again to square one. Life seriously sucks.

Big Bag of Chips

Leave him at his parents for now. He has somewhere to stay, he'll be ok. First thing Monday morning get yourself down to a Citizens Advice Centre. Write out what you want to ask them, so that you are clear in your head. They will give you as much information as you need, or will direct you towards others who will know more.

You might also have to get a solicitor. Your are effectively going through a separation and division of assets. So it will get legal. If you get to "keep" the house, you will probably end up having to buy him out. This is where you will need a solicitor to work through the finer details and figures.

Mind yourself. He's obviously not going to walk away amicably or quietly.

Stavro Mueller

OP while there's no harm in looking for general legal advice on forums, I can't emphasize enough your need to get yourself proper real world advice as soon as possible. Don't assume your ex isn't already going down that road.

Because he's already sticking padlocks on gates and tried to take your key off you, you need to be on your guard. Don't be surprised if you come back some day to find the locks changed. Also, if there's anything of sentimental value that belongs to you in there (e.g. family photos, keepsakes, passports) remove them from the house and put them somewhere safe.

In the short term I don't think handing back the keys to the council house is a good idea though perhaps your legal advisor may tell you something different. With the way social housing has gone in this country you could find yourself in a pickle.

Seeing as this relationship appears to be over, would you think about turning to your family? I'm sure they'd be more than helpful if they understood that you and this creep aren't together any more.

Flippyfloppy

blue_figaro wrote: »

Oh my God, thank you so much. This is what I needed to hear. Yes the mortgage is in both our names and I have been paying half the mortgage. He put up the finances in order to purchase this house but I have helped financially in indirect ways by paying for other things. I will have a look at another forum to get some legal advice. I was worried that if I left it now today i'd never be let back there. He padlocked the gate and I had to sweet talk him to let me in to get some stuff. I'm hoping he will stay away now for a while so things can settle down at least. Thank you so much for all your support and advice. 31 yrs of age and I'm back here again to square one. Life seriously sucks.

I'm a similar age to you op! I know it's very very hard, but we're young really when you think about it!! You are doing 100% the right thing for yourself and your son.

Hopefully the legal forums can ease your mind and you won't feel like making a rash decision over the weekend!! At least then you can work out who to call on Monday, what kind of questions you need to ask etc. Definitely get yourself real legal advice asap!!

diveout

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

You only get one life.

I have a son myself, and I'd honestly rather bring him up by myself on the streets, than have him live in a lovely house with the monster you've described. Never mind about schools or anything - sort that out when the time comes.

He punched you in the stomach - how exactly do you think he'll react when your son acts out in his teenage years? Don't you realise it's very likely that your son is going to end up on the receiving end of some of those punches too?

OR the other way around, the son could retaliate and be the one to end up behind bars.

People never anticipate how easy it is for things to escalate. You just don't know. A split second choice in the heat of moment and it all comes crashing down.

BE careful OP.

Oryx

You cannot get proper legal advice on the forums here, only generalities. This is site rule. So get to a solicitor as soon as you can.

Whether you live in the house or not it is a financial liability. You and he are jointly liable to pay the mortgage. Say you go back to your old house, you are still responsible for the debt if the mortgage isnt paid. This is why you must get proper advice.

There are worse things than living in a scummy neighbourhood. At least you have security and peace of mind there.