What are typical terms for apartment rental?

Dinarius

We own an apartment which we rent and, based on experience the tenant gives one month's notice and stops the standing order.

For this reason, we demand two months rent in advance so that, when the one month's notice is given and the standing order is stopped, the second month's advance rent covers the final month of the tenant's stay.

However, since this would leave us with no security over possible damage when the keys are returned at the end of that month, we also look for a security deposit up front, typically about €700.

In summary then, we are looking for a minimum 12 month lease, plus two month's rent in advance, plus a security deposit.

Is this reasonable?

Thanks.

D.

shruikan2553

By 2 months rent in advance do you mean for the first and last month? Then the 700 deposit on top of that.

athtrasna

I would phrase it that you want a deposit of two months rent and then the rent is payable in advance. That sounds more reasonable than two months rent up front.

The_Morrigan

Dinarius wrote: »

We own an apartment which we rent and, based on experience the tenant gives one month's notice and stops the standing order.

For this reason, we demand two months rent in advance so that, when the one month's notice is given and the standing order is stopped, the second month's advance rent covers the final month of the tenant's stay.

However, since this would leave us with no security over possible damage when the keys are returned at the end of that month, we also look for a security deposit up front, typically about €700.

In summary then, we are looking for a minimum 12 month lease, plus two month's rent in advance, plus a security deposit.

Is this reasonable?

Thanks.

D.

Does your 12 month lease contain a break clause to just give 1 months notice to quit without penalty?

Agree with athtrasna - higher deposit amount and rent payable in advance is the way to go.

moc moc a moc

Dinarius wrote: »

Is this reasonable?

No.

Nor is it typical.

Dinarius

Thanks for the extremely prompt replies.

So, if it's not typical, then let's say the rent is €1000 p/m with a 12 month lease requiring one month's notice (i.e. The tenant can give notice at the end of the 11th month) how would one phrase/state the terms?

Many thanks.

D.

shruikan2553

Dinarius wrote: »

Thanks for the extremely prompt replies.

So, if it's not typical, then let's say the rent is €1000 p/m with a 12 month lease requiring one month's notice (i.e. The tenant can give notice at the end of the 11th month) how would one phrase/state the terms?

Many thanks.

D.

As mentioned above 2000 deposit and 1000 at the start of the month for rent. Are you in Dublin? Outside of Dublin I would say good luck with that because few people would go for it. Tenants dont want to risk the money.

The_Morrigan

Dinarius wrote: »

Thanks for the extremely prompt replies.

So, if it's not typical, then let's say the rent is €1000 p/m with a 12 month lease requiring one month's notice (i.e. The tenant can give notice at the end of the 11th month) how would one phrase/state the terms?

Many thanks.

D.

Is this phrasing/wording for a lease agreement?

Dinarius

shruikan2553 wrote: »

As mentioned above 2000 deposit and 1000 at the start of the month for rent. Are you in Dublin? Outside of Dublin I would say good luck with that because few people would go for it. Tenants dont want to risk the money.

That's exactly what I said in my first post. It's just phrased differently. You end up with three times the rent. In fact, in my case it's two times, plus €700 security = €2700. So, it's actually less that I'm looking for.

Apologies for the confusion, and no, it's not wording for a lease agreement.

D.

Gandhi

Here in the US, that is the standard. You pay first and last month's rent, plus a security deposit of one month's rent, i.e. a total of three month's rent, up front.

Cuddlesworth

You can ask whatever deposit amount you want. The only issue I can see with that is the fact most tenants have encountered difficulty getting their deposit back. That might lose you a few good tenants who don't place much trust in you.

Dinarius

Thanks for the replies.

Looks like we're all singing from the same hymn sheet.

Regarding a tenant's attitude to security deposit: people need to understand that only an idiot landlord would fail to protect his investment. A deposit keeps everyone honest. Our apartment is immaculate. I want to keep it that way.

D.

shruikan2553

Dinarius wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

Looks like we're all singing from the same hymn sheet.

Regarding a tenant's attitude to security deposit: people need to understand that only an idiot landlord would fail to protect his investment. A deposit keeps everyone honest. Our apartment is immaculate. I want to keep it that way.

D.

Its not just your investment you are protecting. When even estate agents, people who should understand the laws around deposits, do their best to keep as much as possible tenants are weary of handing over large sums of money that these people have access to.

Mrs OBumble

Dinarius wrote: »

Regarding a tenant's attitude to security deposit: people need to understand that only an idiot landlord would fail to protect his investment. A deposit keeps everyone honest. Our apartment is immaculate. I want to keep it that way.

D.

And landlords need to understand that tenants are sceptical that their deposit will be returned to them even if they keep the place properly - because Ireland has no deposit holding service. And that many tenants have been burned by landlords in the past.

Go ahead with your plan if you're in Dublin, and so demand is so high that people will go for it anyway.

But elsewhere ... if you are wanting tenants to give you a large proportion of their savings to rest in your account for the duration of the tenancy, then you need to provide them with sufficient documentation to put their minds at rest. This should include:

- References from previous tenants saying that the appropriate proportion of their deposit was returned, and that landlord maintenance functions were carried out promptly (accompanied by phone numbers, so prosepctive tenants can get verbal confirmation).
- A recent statement from the management company saying that all charges are up to date
- Copies of bank statements proving that all mortage payments are made on time and there are no arrears
- Documentation from Revenue showing that rental income is being declared, and that local property tax is up to date
- A tax clearance certificate.


As you can see, there are two sides to every story.

TBH, if your experience is that tenants give notice and then cancel the last standing order, then I think this tells us something about their perception of you as a landlord - viz that they think you're a chancer who's not likely to give the deposit back.

TheBandicoot

Dinarius wrote: »

a 12 month lease requiring one month's notice (i.e. The tenant can give notice at the end of the 11th month)

That makes no legal sense. A fixed term lease is just that, the tenant does not have to give you notice that it is ending- you operate on the assumption that they will leave at the end of the last month. The whole "not paying last month's rent" thing is a separate, illegal thing, and you should be filing PTRB cases when it happens.

If the tenant wishes to stay in the property beyond the 12 months, then they should give you notice of their intention to stay on on a part 4 basis, and you cannot make them sign another fixed term lease. At that point the notice periods for the tenant leaving become those set out in http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html - 42 days for the first two years then 56 beyond that.

You should really actually try to understand tenancy law in this country if you are acting as a landlord.

As for the deposit query, no, I would not pay three months rent up front, especially not to someone like you who does not seem to have a solid grip on the law, and the points about deposit retention and lack of escrow in this country. Not that you will care what my opinion is.

Dinarius wrote: »

A deposit keeps everyone honest.

Not really. As you have seen, most tenants have no confidence that they will get it back. In my own experience, we had to fight our first landlord for the deposit back, and he acquiesced since one of his workers stole a laptop from us while doing up the house and we reported that to the gards ; the second landlord gave us the deposit in 5 small cheques and told us not to cash them for a month(which as I recall, is illegal, writing a cheque you know you can't fulfill). In this atmosphere, there is no honesty, and instead there is an adversarial thing going on- tenants withhold last month's rent, landlords demand more upfront months to cover it.

Dinarius

TheBandicoot wrote: »

That makes no legal sense. A fixed term lease is just that, the tenant does not have to give you notice that it is ending- you operate on the assumption that they will leave at the end of the last month. The whole "not paying last month's rent" thing is a separate, illegal thing, and you should be filing PTRB cases when it happens.

If the tenant wishes to stay in the property beyond the 12 months, then they should give you notice of their intention to stay on on a part 4 basis, and you cannot make them sign another fixed term lease. At that point the notice periods for the tenant leaving become those set out in http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html - 42 days for the first two years then 56 beyond that.

You should really actually try to understand tenancy law in this country if you are acting as a landlord.

As for the deposit query, no, I would not pay three months rent up front, especially not to someone like you who does not seem to have a solid grip on the law, and the points about deposit retention and lack of escrow in this country. Not that you will care what my opinion is.

Unsurprising how quickly people resort to insults and abuse. How very, very Irish. Sad really.

For the record, I have never retained any tenant's money, notwithstanding the fact that I've had to replace both the cooker and the fridge after the last occupants.

This thread is closed as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for the replies anyway.

D.

Ps. I agree that three months up front is excessive, which is why I've never asked for it.

The_Morrigan

Dinarius wrote: »

Unsurprising how quickly people resort to insults and abuse. How very, very Irish. Sad really.

For the record, I have never retained any tenant's money, notwithstanding the fact that I've had to replace both the cooker and the fridge after the last occupants.

This thread is closed as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for the replies anyway.

D.

If you wish to use Boards.ie, I would strongly suggest you refrain from the gross generalisations about the Irish.

/Moderator.