Ethical clothing: Would you pay more if workers were treated better?

Augmerson

Most of the clothes we buy in the western world are produced in Asia. They are produced in Asia because it's either cheaper to do so or the labour laws are so lax and the trade union representation so crooked or completely irrelevant that workers are powerless to protect themselves or represent their own interests properly.

I'm wearing an Adidas hoodie right now. It cost me about 40 euro. To make it probably cost a fraction of that. Does it matter what the worker who made it was paid to produce it? As a consumer you want the best value for your money, especially in these times. If a company saves money on new production methods, better and more efficient technologies or cheaper transportation routes than what difference to you is it if a company saves to themselves and you on the final cost by paying someone on the other side of the planet a pittance for their works?

It's not like they are skilled. How hard can it be to thread footballs all day or make jerseys or such. They didn't go to college. Lots of us go to college and don't get a job at the end.

So, maybe I'm losing my point. But if a company came out and said they'd pay their workers better, give them better rights and opportunities, but that their product would cost a lot more, would you still be interested in buying it?

Rubberchikken

in my heart of hearts i'd love to, but i genuinely cant afford to pay more. so i buy very little and only when absolutely necessary.
best i can do for now.

The Backwards Man

Ethical clothing;

Paying three times the price for the same material made by the same exploited worker in the same factory under the same conditions for the same wages, but with a fancier label for the consumer to fell smug about.

I would rather have fewer things that cost more and harmed no one, than a wardrobe full of crap I pay buttons for that someone has been exploited to produce.

whupdedo

No I like my 10 euro tracksuit and 15 euro jeans, and to be honest I couldn't give a flying monkeys where it comes from

Augmerson

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Ethical clothing;

Paying three times the price for the same material made by the same exploited worker in the same factory under the same conditions for the same wages, but with a fancier label for the consumer to fell smug about.

That pretty much sums it up.

Labels are just that, labels. Pay more to advertise someones stuff.

Tar.Aldarion

Of course there is more ethical clothing, you can buy "fair trade" clothing etc. but it's not exactly a simple topic.
It's becoming more common that clothes has the name, phone number etc of factories where it was made, on it

mad muffin

I'd like the workers to have better wages and conditions.

I'm just not prepared to pay more for it just so the companies can still rake in billions, and pay their executives millions upon millions.

Then pay even more millions for some bloody footballer to shill their wares.

No, it's time for these fùckers to take pay cuts so the lowly workers can get more. Not for us to pay for it.

The companies get billions, we pay through the nose and the lowly workers still get fück all. Fućk that shît

You wouldn't be paying twice as much or anything like that, however the issue is very complicated and its not as simple as saying if we paid more the workers would get more and be treated better, if life was that simple everyone problem could be solved.

PizzamanIRL

No.

That's my problem with activist and campaigner they wont engage with what a complex problem it is to solve, instead they concentrate on blaming the consumers for wanting cheap clothes.

AlanS181824

The only difference between Penney's and say Adidas is the price.

Just because YOU pay more doesn't mean the child who made it is getting more.

Pretty common knowledge that's it's children that make the majority of these clothes.

It's one of those things that it can be changed but people don't seem to care.

Elegant Elliot Offen

Yes. If I knew it would improve their life.

Also, our society has far far too much cheap crappy tat. Lifes turning into some kind of Lidl/Walmart/Argos beast.

I call him Limagos - evil lord of cheap wind up plastic sht.

Elegant Elliot Offen

Yes. If I knew it would improve their life.

Also, our society has far far too much cheap crappy tat. Life is turning into some kind of Lidl/Walmart/Argos beast.

I call him Limagos - evil lord of cheap wind up plastic sht.


He comes with a free one direction click on cover.

frozenfrozen

But if we stop buying their stuff then they no longer have an income and they all die

Davarus Walrus

All my gladrags are hand made by happy adults living in the socialist paradise of Cuba.

whupdedo

frozenfrozen wrote: »

But if we stop buying their stuff then they no longer have an income and they all die

I've always wondered about this, if we all got together and stopped buying all these unethical goods, wouldn't it make it worse for the people that make them, isn't that will they do to earn a living and put food on the table ? Surely that would all finish if we all got a conscience tomorrow and stopped buying all their goods

Buzz Killington the third

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Ethical clothing;

Paying three times the price for the same material made by the same exploited worker in the same factory under the same conditions for the same wages, but with a fancier label for the consumer to fell smug about.

We could call it "free-range clothing" or "organic"... Those phrases tend to demand a premium.

House of Blaze

whupdedo wrote: »

I've always wondered about this, if we all got together and stopped buying all these unethical goods, wouldn't it make it worse for the people that make them, isn't that will they do to earn a living and put food on the table ? Surely that would all finish if we all got a conscience tomorrow and stopped buying all their goods

I'm not so sure.

Companies care about their bottom line, and will try and match consumer expectations if enough pressure builds.

Just look at McSalads or the rise of hybrid / electric cars.

The fact is that people don't care enough about this to boycott the companies responsible.

If their figures aren't under pressure few companies will act ethically.

kult

I would not. It's not my problem they let their employers treat them like that.

Stepping Stone

I make an effort to only buy clothes when necessary and I do try really hard to avoid clothing made in areas notorious for sweat shops but it is so difficult. Seriously, very hard to get clothes not made in a hell hole. Look at shoes. I swear the majority are made in Asia in terrible factories.

I don't buy from Penneys but I also don't buy labels. As for fair trade, etc. While it is good in theory, an awful lot of the clothing is just not going to be suitable for work, etc.

frozenfrozen

whupdedo wrote: »

I've always wondered about this, if we all got together and stopped buying all these unethical goods, wouldn't it make it worse for the people that make them, isn't that will they do to earn a living and put food on the table ? Surely that would all finish if we all got a conscience tomorrow and stopped buying all their goods

there needs to be drastic change, but not buying their produce definitely wouldn't sort it out. It would be like getting them put down to put them out of their misery. Maybe something you would do to an animal but certainly not a way to treat humans who just happen to be on the arse end of economic dependency.

The answer to the situation is the same as most other problems, condoms and education

whupdedo

Also aren't a lot of the countries where they make these clothes governed by some sort of caste system or another, working in there factories is as far as any of them will get in life due to class discrimination from the authorities

Del2005

House of Blaze wrote: »

I'm not so sure.

Companies care about their bottom line, and will try and match consumer expectations if enough pressure builds.

I read about a country that banned child labour a few years ago, could have been a region of India but not sure. The end result of the banning of child labour was much more begging and abandonment of children, the families were so poor that the children where their only bread winner. The companies didn't hire adults they just moved.

House of Blaze wrote: »

Just look at McSalads or the rise of hybrid / electric cars.

You mean the salads with more calories than a big mac and ignoring the conditions of the people mining the rare earth metals in China for all the batteries with the electricity being mostly produced from coal or other dirty fossils. Such good marketing people miss that the salad isn't healthy and the car isn't really that good for the environment with current manufacturing and electricity production.

Icaras

AlanS181824 wrote: »

The only difference between Penney's and say Adidas is the price.

No it isn't, the cut, material and quality are different. To me its quite clear the difference between a Penney and Adidas t-shirt or to make a more obvious comparison Penney's runners to Adidas runners.

Autonomous Cowherd

Yes, i would. As it is i hardly ever buy new clothes, buy in Oxfam because endless clothes is just a blooming neurosis ...But YES, if buying anything buy from ethical sources. Free the Slaves!
That goes for our bananas, coffee, tea, electronic produce, furniture, gold, dried fruit, and on and on. Think before you buy cos we are living the high life on the backs of slave labour.
http://www.free2work.org/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TPFLHvn024

Soweee to be a buzz kill

House of Blaze

Del2005 wrote: »

You mean the salads with more calories than a big mac and ignoring the conditions of the people mining the rare earth metals in China for all the batteries with the electricity being mostly produced from coal or other dirty fossils. Such good marketing people miss that the salad isn't healthy and the car isn't really that good for the environment with current manufacturing and electricity production.

I don't dispute any of that in the slightest, all I was trying to illustrate is that companies will try and satisfy consumer demand, if that demand is high enough.

I mean McDonald's is still one of the most popular fast food chains and has been throughout a period of rising awareness of the importance of a healthy diet etc. There was never enough pressure on them to really change, but they had to take note of the trend in public opinion.

If everyone basically stopped eating McDonald's because it was such s**tty food then I'm sure you would see some improvement, but that won't happen, so all they have to do is kid on and, as you say, astutely market their product to alleviate the perceived concern of their customers.

We have the power as consumers to force companies to be accountable, but we will never excercise that authority, and so.. the game continues!

vitani

H&M have started to react to the issue with their 'Conscious Clothing' range.

darkpagandeath

It's a very very complex problem, Do I want the workers treated fair yes. But we already have laws saying that clothes should not be bing made via exploited workers. Companies send out inspectors, They usually get a tour around a fantastic facility that a large number of factory owners use to fool the inspectors. Was there not some stop the sweatshop bag made recently, that was then contracted off several times and ended up being made in one..

The other problem is that if you remove the only work from an area what do the exploited works do for food ? How will they survive ? The factory owner can up and move, The workers cannot. And tbh it's not our fault it's due to the race to the bottom again suppliers forced to compete to let companies in the west pocket vast amounts of the savings from the production.

We need to move from shareholder motivated business.

Fuhrer

No

Augmerson

vitani wrote: »

H&M have started to react to the issue with their 'Conscious Clothing' range.

So do you know if is it just this particular range that is produced 'consciously' or their whole range of items?

Iwasfrozen

Augmerson wrote: »

Most of the clothes we buy in the western world are produced in Asia. They are produced in Asia because it's either cheaper to do so or the labour laws are so lax and the trade union representation so crooked or completely irrelevant that workers are powerless to protect themselves or represent their own interests properly.

I'm wearing an Adidas hoodie right now. It cost me about 40 euro. To make it probably cost a fraction of that. Does it matter what the worker who made it was paid to produce it? As a consumer you want the best value for your money, especially in these times. If a company saves money on new production methods, better and more efficient technologies or cheaper transportation routes than what difference to you is it if a company saves to themselves and you on the final cost by paying someone on the other side of the planet a pittance for their works?

It's not like they are skilled. How hard can it be to thread footballs all day or make jerseys or such. They didn't go to college. Lots of us go to college and don't get a job at the end.

So, maybe I'm losing my point. But if a company came out and said they'd pay their workers better, give them better rights and opportunities, but that their product would cost a lot more, would you still be interested in buying it?

No screw that I want cheap clothes.

UCDVet

Ironically, many of the same people who would support this are also the types who donate clothing/food to those in need. While it's done with good intentions, it also has the horrible side effect of completely destroying the local economy.

Imagine you are a farmer. You need to sell the food you grow to make some money. But then some white guy from the UN shows up and gives away food and clothing. What happens to the value of your goods?

And if support continues long enough, the farmer goes out of business.

And then when the support ends, there is an even worse shortage of food. Creating a vicious cycle of dependency.

smellmepower

Something like that Toms shoes crowd do sounds good,but is probably horribly flawed in reality.

Ditch

Teach them of Papaver somniferum and Islam. They'll do the rest .....

fits

I just bought some stuff from peopletree.co.uk. They make mens and womens clothing and its not that expensive and its quite nice!

Am generally trying to buy less though.