Fiance's Family Rift

Ballfro

Hi all,
I will try to keep this as short as possible. I don't know exactly what it is I am looking for, just some outside advice in moving on I suppose.

I have been with my fiancé for 4 years and up until a few months ago he was very close to one of his brothers and I got on very well with him too. The brother has a partner and a child of 5 years old. Their relationship has always been rocky since I can remember. She has beaten him up on a few occasions and thrown him out and he has always turned to my fiancé. She has hacked his facebook, she has set up false accounts as women and emailed him trying to get him to meet up, she has reported him for social welfare fraud when he was on social welfare a few years ago. The brother also has a 15 year old daughter from a previous relationship and he was told she is not allowed in their house anymore. He has zero relationship with that daughter anymore. The partner has a 14 year old son from a previous relationship and he lives with them so that seems to be okay. Anyway my point is there was a lot of drama.
A few months ago he just stopped talking to my fiancé and I, just stopped. I will get over it but my fiancé is absolutely gutted. Months have gone past and nothing changes, my fiancé was in tears last week about losing his brother. I was so heartbroken for him I thought if I tried to talk to the brother and appeal to him that maybe they could reconcile. I sent him a message on facebook, it was wrong I know and I should have told my fiancé but I was hoping it would work. I have this need to fix things for people I love.
In the email I basically said look I don't know what has happened but your brother loves and misses you and you know if you ever need him he will be there, please just reach out to him. I sent this Thursday night.
Friday night we were out at a charity event and towards the end his brother and partner show up (the lads have mutual friends from childhood). My fiancé tried to make general conversation with his brother but nothing. Anyway we left around 12. After we left the brother's partner took out her phone and showed everyone the email. I said nothing blaming or bad in it so I have nothing to hide. She twisted it and said I only did it to ruin their night (I didn't even know they were going to be there) and what a bitch I was etc I should have known she would have seen his private mail before he did.
Anyway it's done now. This was not how I intended things to work out. Our friends were dragged into it by them being shown the email after we left. They were the ones who told us of course and they are fine. My fiancé was pissed at first but he knows I had the best intentions but said I was silly to think she wouldn't read it first and twist everything. I was silly but I genuinely thought I would help by reaching out.
So as it stands it doesn't look like the lads will be back talking any time soon and of course the partner has gotten what she wanted. I am so annoyed at myself for playing right in to her hands and I am also hurting for my fiancé who is very obviously hurting over the whole thing.
Sorry it is so long, as soon as I started typing it just all came out.

username123

So what if she showed the email? I don't get why that matters at all? Anyone who saw that email would see that she was showing a (nice) private email and it would be clear that she was just trying to be a troublemaker.

As to the rest of it, stay out of it. You can't control other people. Personally I wouldn't have people who live with such an amount of drama in my life at all so IMO you are actually well rid.

Ballfro

username123 wrote: »

So what if she showed the email? I don't get why that matters at all? Anyone who saw that email would see that she was showing a (nice) private email and it would be clear that she was just trying to be a troublemaker.

As to the rest of it, stay out of it. You can't control other people. Personally I wouldn't have people who live with such an amount of drama in my life at all so IMO you are actually well rid.

Yeah you are right she just did it after we left and tried to twist things.
If it were me I wouldn't give two hoots, my fiancé is upset and there is no reason there is a rift. All I can figure is she has turned him against us.
We do have to see them,not regularly thank god and him more than her. I just am wondering how to proceed when we see them again.

Tokyo

Hi OP,

The only thing I can really tell you that you can take solace in is that if even half of what you say is true, then anyone worth their salt will know that your fiancé's brother's partner is a manipulative lunatic, and will take any rants about emails as such. To be honest if it were me I'd be shrugging it off as yet another example of how controlling this person is, and let other people figure that out for themselves.

Unfortunately, despite your best intentions, you or your partner can't really help his brother unless he takes the first steps to help himself, and make changes in his relationship with this person. He has accepted this situation as being what he wants in life, or at least as his lot in life, and while you can provide support for him should he decide to leave her, you can't drag him kicking and screaming away from the relationship if he's not willing to leave it himself.

It;s a hard situation to be in , because I understand that your partner only wants his brother back. But his partner has obviously manipulated him into not having anything to do with you two. Hard as it is, the only thing you can really do is for you both to let him know that regardless of what happens, you'll both always be there for him to help him through whatever he is going through, and that if he ever needs your help or support, he only has to ask.

Ballfro

mike_ie wrote: »

Hi OP,

The only thing I can really tell you that you can take solace in is that if even half of what you say is true, then anyone worth their salt will know that your fiancé's brother's partner is a manipulative lunatic, and will take any rants about emails as such. To be honest if it were me I'd be shrugging it off as yet another example of how controlling this person is, and let other people figure that out for themselves.

Unfortunately, despite your best intentions, you or your partner can't really help his brother unless he takes the first steps to help himself, and make changes in his relationship with this person. He has accepted this situation as being what he wants in life, or at least as his lot in life, and while you can provide support for him should he decide to leave her, you can't drag him kicking and screaming away from the relationship if he's not willing to leave it himself.

It;s a hard situation to be in , because I understand that your partner only wants his brother back. But his partner has obviously manipulated him into not having anything to do with you two. Hard as it is, the only thing you can really do is for you both to let him know that regardless of what happens, you'll both always be there for him to help him through whatever he is going through, and that if he ever needs your help or support, he only has to ask.

Thank you Mike. Everything I have said and more unsaid has either been told by the brother or witnessed. She says he won't see his child again and seeing as he has all but lost his first child he does what he can to keep the peace.

It is sad but not going to change unfortunately and he knows we would always be here. I did say that in email too.

The funny thing is that the group of people we were with have either witnessed her in action or been on the receiving end of her lies yet it's all hugs and niceness when she comes in and myself and my fiance are just sitting there wanting to get away from the awkwardness. Maybe I am too much but I can't really bother with someone I don't like.

username123

Ballfro wrote: »

Yeah you are right she just did it after we left and tried to twist things.
If it were me I wouldn't give two hoots, my fiancé is upset and there is no reason there is a rift. All I can figure is she has turned him against us.
We do have to see them,not regularly thank god and him more than her. I just am wondering how to proceed when we see them again.

I'd be inclined to just be civil when you see them. Treat them like you would a business associate you don't like. Polite, civil, spend as little time in conversation as is necessary.

Merkin

You are unfortunately dealing with a lunatic. When you're dealing with someone like this you're dealing with an unknown quantity as she has shown herself to be volatile, paranoid, manipulative and wholly unstable. You can't reason with unreasonable.

Please don't be hard on yourself re the PM. It came from a good place and you obviously wanted to mend the hurt your partner feels, that is understandable. There is not a huge amount else you can do however. I am sure the sentiments in the email don't have an expiry date so as long as you made it clear that you both will always be there for him and love him unconditionally then there is not a lot else you can do.

I wouldn't hold my breath however. If this harridan was able to extricate the man from his own daughter (he must be keeping his balls in a display cabinet because I can't fathom how he could let this happen) then I wouldn't hold out much hope for a reconciliation with your brother.

I'd be civil and polite to them in future and I'd also give serious consideration as to whether you will be inviting them to your wedding. Is this something you are planning to do?

Ballfro

Merkin wrote: »

You are unfortunately dealing with a lunatic. When you're dealing with someone like this you're dealing with an unknown quantity as she has shown herself to be volatile, paranoid, manipulative and wholly unstable. You can't reason with unreasonable.

Please don't be hard on yourself re the PM. It came from a good place and you obviously a wanted to mend the hurt your partner feels, that is understandable. There is not a huge amount else you can do however. I am sure the sentiments in the email don't have an expiry date so as long as you made it clear that you both will always be there for him and love him unconditionally then there is not a lot else you can do.

I wouldn't hold my breath however. If this harridan was able to extricate the man from his own daughter (he must be keeping his balls in a display cabinet because I can't fathom how he could let this happen) then I wouldn't hold out much hope for a reconciliation with your brother.

I'd be civil and polite to them in future and I'd also give serious consideration as to whether you will be inviting them to your wedding. Is this something you are planning to do?

Well they completely ignore us and any attempt to speak sn remaining civil won't be an issue whem they don't speak.

Yeah I can't fathom how he let his daughter go either,she went around to her house two years ago and took all her Christmas presents back and he drove her.

Anyway you are right it doesn't look good for them having a relationship.

As for the wedding, I would love the brother to be there but I couldn't have her there. Someone who hates us at the happiest day of our lives,no. Realistically he won't come anyway. Sad for my fiancé as he was going to ask him to be best man.

Merkin

Ballfro wrote: »

Yeah I can't fathom how he let his daughter go either,she went around to her house two years ago and took all her Christmas presents back and he drove her.

What do you mean by this?

ABajaninCork

I'm sorry, but I think you and your man have got your answer. However unpalatable that might be. The partner wears his brother's balls as earrings. How on earth could he allow this creature to destroy his relationship with his child, I have no clue.

Anyway - I'd keep as far as way as possible. I'd row the other friends out as well. They sound like **** stirrers to me, and I'd be keeping my distance. And I'm with the others - Keep out of family business. It never ends well, and you ALWAYS end up as the bad guy. Your fiance is a grown man. If he wanted to reach out to his brother, he would have done so by now.

When/if you get married, I wouldn't be inviting them. Why allow these people to ruin your day?

Oryx

You both need to step back from the situation and let your fiances brother make his choices. Sometimes you just can't help. It sounds like he is in a deeply toxic relationship with emotional abuse, and until he feels ready to break free there is little you can do. Just keep the channels of communication open so he knows you guys are there for him if he ever gets the courage to leave.

He may never leave her though, and I know that hurts. Unfortunately you need to come to terms with that.

Ballfro

Merkin wrote: »

What do you mean by this?

Sorry,it didn't come out as clear as in my thoughts. A previous poster mentioned how could he let her ruin his relationship with his teenage daughter. Few years ago the partner went to the daughter's house after a row with the brother and took back all the Christmas presents he had gotten for his daughter and the brother drove her there.

When I see it written down I still don't believe it. I will be staying out of it from now on. My life is drama free and I like it that way.

Ballfro

Oryx wrote: »

You both need to step back from the situation and let your fiances brother make his choices. Sometimes you just can't help. It sounds like he is in a deeply toxic relationship with emotional abuse, and until he feels ready to break free there is little you can do. Just keep the channels of communication open so he knows you guys are there for him if he ever gets the courage to leave.

He may never leave her though, and I know that hurts. Unfortunately you need to come to terms with that.

Yes he knows we will be here but other than that we can do nothing.
He did leave once for two months and was a different man but she wouldn't let him see the little girl and eventually he went back.

Merkin

Ballfro wrote: »

Sorry,it didn't come out as clear as in my thoughts. A previous poster mentioned how could he let her ruin his relationship with his teenage daughter. Few years ago the partner went to the daughter's house after a row with the brother and took back all the Christmas presents he had gotten for his daughter and the brother drove her there.

When I see it written down I still don't believe it. I will be staying out of it from now on. My life is drama free and I like it that way.

Well then he's as bad as her. You're actually better off without both of them tbh.

Ballfro

Merkin wrote: »

Well then he's as bad as her. You're actually better off without both of them tbh.

Starting to think the same myself.

Ballfro

Merkin wrote: »

Well then he's as bad as her. You're actually better off without both of them tbh.

Starting to think the same myself.

username123

Christ you are definitely better off without either of them. He isnt some child or mental deficient who is being fooled into behaving the way he does. He is an adult male with choices and responsibilities. He has chosen to cut off his daughter. Sure, she may have fuelled the situation, but he is responsible for his own behaviour!

Flippyfloppy

God. What an awful awful excuse for a human being. I'm dumbfounded.


He's being abused and she has him by the balls.

Ballfro

I know. You might think I am exaggerating but I am not. Have never met anyone like this in all my life and the further away we are the better!

Chara1001

Hey Op,

Sounds as though he feels trapped in an incredibly abusive relationship. He's standing by her and her crazy demands for fear of losing his second child, he's acting really badly also but i dunno... i feel bad for him

Your fiance would be able to tell- was this action with the xmas presents totally out of character? Or has he done horrible, petty, small minded things like this before he met his OH? How much has he changed since he met her?

You mentioned previously that whenever something went wrong in their relationship, he would turn to your fiance for support- well i can tell you from experience that she won't have liked that.
Playing the devils advocate here- she's possibly forced him to cut contact with his brother and threatened him with losing his child if he didn't. Now consider he's been bullied, abused, browbeaten and threatened by this woman for years- he probably believed her.

One thing i'd like to mention is that IMO, the situation will come to a head- he can't keep living in fear of her, and now he's lost his (only?) supportive person, so what happens after the next major incident, or the one after that?
He's got nowhere to turn now, and i'd be worried about that. I think the only thing that you & your fiance can do is to accept the situation as it stands right now, but when he's ready to do something (and hopefully, with the loss of his support network- that would come sooner than later) you could be there for him then.

A horrible situation, but I hope he comes out ok from it.

Ande1975

OP,

This sounds like a dreadful situation but also not uncommon.
My brother has been in a relationship with an absolute nutjob for 20 years and have a gorgeous daughter.
I've always said she should write a book called 'How to snag a good looking guy who will let you give up your job because you don't like people, allow you to have a cleaner and nanny for your kid because you don't like to clean or mind your child and is willing to get up in the middle of the night with the child because you need your sleep eventhough he has to get up for work and commute daily - especially if you are not remotely attractive both physicall and in personality' It would be a best seller but as daft as it sounds - its true.

It upsets me a great deal that my brother allows himself to be treated this way. About 10 years ago he nearly left her and then 6 months later, she was pregnant. I was absolutely livid but you know what he didn't see what was wrong.

You've got to let this go and just be there for your fiancee. Some men just can't handle difficult women like these and they'll end up having miserable lives but its their choice and only they can see the error of their ways. Heartbreaking to watch but its in my family too. My father and my brothers and my brother in law have married strong willed, opinonated, difficult women. I'm single so some poor chap got a lucky escape.

Ballfro

Thanks everyone for the advice. We are just going to let it go, you can't control what others do, he just has to live his life and deal with the consequences.
In reply to a previous question, there are four brothers and my fiancé was the closest to him. His parents are lovely, especially his mam and I have talked to her about it because she asked me what was going on between them. Apparently the brother's partner has done and said some awful stuff to their mum who is really sweet and kind. I didn't realise half of it. The further away we all are from her the better. She is dangerous.

Rubberchikken

Until he realises what type of person she is, your dp's brother is going to stick with this woman.
How any person would put a partner before their child and allow her to take back gifts from the child and enable it is beyond my comprehension.
For your own sake, i'd say stay out of it.
People like her are poison and eventually everyone sees it.

ABajaninCork

Yeah - the partner sounds like a nasty, bitter woman who will have a very lonely old age...

IrishEyes19

its very likely, OP, your fiance's brother was wary of talking at the party in case she caused a scene. If he is being physically abused by her, he is probably very low in esteem right now. Im not excusing his ignoring your partner, its awful and I feel so sorry for him. Well done for taking that approach, you couldnt have been nicer and no one with half a brain would say otherwise.

All you can do now is continue to support your fiance, there is no point trying to build bridges until the other side comes to meet you half way. Best of luck

P. Breathnach

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

its very likely, OP, your fiance's brother was wary of talking at the party in case she caused a scene. If he is being physically abused by her, he is probably very low in esteem right now. Im not excusing his ignoring your partner, its awful and I feel so sorry for him. Well done for taking that approach, you couldnt have been nicer and no one with half a brain would say otherwise.

All you can do now is continue to support your fiance, there is no point trying to build bridges until the other side comes to meet you half way. Best of luck

I'd agree with this, except for the bit I have bolded. The guy is in a terrible situation, and has little control over his life. He is ignoring his brother because he is being forced to, and is unable to resist that force.

With any luck, he might be able to break out of the abusive situation. If he does, he will need a lot of help and support. You and your fiancé should be ready for that possibility.