Worried dad

scholarsmate1

I guys first time posting and could really do with some help and advice. I'm a single dad of two young boys aged 3 & 5. I'm seperated 11 months pay 100 maintenance per week as well as all costs when boys are with we I.e haircuts, medical etc. Me and my ex have a roster in place where one week I take the boys Tues, wed and Friday from 430 overnight as I work full time. Then the following week I do a Monday eve overnight and Fri sat and sun overnight. The problem is now on a few occasions she has decided to mess my days around and as much as I'm afraid of court as I don't want to lose any time with my kids is it time to get the roster done through court as a court order and what are the chances of the courts changing my days. My kids mean the world to me and adore there time in our house that I rent.

diveout

Get a family therapist or a mediator and work out a parenting plan.

These split weeks are not workable once they hit school age anyway and the kids will be facing more change.

Avoid court.

scholarsmate1

diveout wrote: »

Get a family therapist or a mediator and work out a parenting plan.

These split weeks are not workable once they hit school age anyway and the kids will be facing more change.

Avoid court.

I really would prefer to avoid courts.
Why do you feel split weeks do not work. I rent a house at a cost of half my monthly wage within 15 mins of the boys school to allow for split weeks etc.

Thanks

diveout

scholarsmate1 wrote: »

I really would prefer to avoid courts.
Why do you feel split weeks do not work. I rent a house at a cost of half my monthly wage within 15 mins of the boys school to allow for split weeks etc.

Thanks

They are not practical. It gets very messy and you can't establish a routine. Split weeks are parent, not child centred so weigh it up. Anyway no one on the internet can decide this for you- seriously the two of you need a family therapist or a mediator to work out a parenting plan.

scholarsmate1

diveout wrote: »

They are not practical. It gets very messy and you can't establish a routine. Split weeks are parent, not child centred so weigh it up. Anyway no one on the internet can decide this for you- seriously the two of you need a family therapist or a mediator to work out a parenting plan.

Ok . Reason we chose the roster so that we both played our part in the kids schooling etc.

But thank you for the advice.

The Muppet

Family court is excellent, get your rights set in law its in the best interest of yourself and your children in the long term. Joint custody is the way to go in this instance.

diveout

The Muppet wrote: »

Family court is excellent, get your rights set in law its in the best interest of yourself and your children in the long term. Joint custody is the way to go in this instance.

You can get your parenting plan endorsed by the courts without actually having to go to court. This is the way to go if you want the law backing you up.

scholarsmate1

diveout wrote: »

You can get your parenting plan endorsed by the courts without actually having to go to court. This is the way to go if you want the law backing you up.

This sounds great and it's all I want for the boys. How could I go about this and keep peace with there mother.

Many thanks

The Muppet

diveout wrote: »

You can get your parenting plan endorsed by the courts without actually having to go to court. This is the way to go if you want the law backing you up.

Is it binding on both parties?

There is no need for the op to be afraid of the Family court nor for it to cause conflict between both parents. If they can both agree a plan its best to get it agreed through the family court to avoid people changing dates etc on a whim.

That's my personal experience perhaps others differ.

diveout

scholarsmate1 wrote: »

This sounds great and it's all I want for the boys. How could I go about this and keep peace with there mother.

Many thanks

Lol... well if I had the answer to that...I'd be a millionaire...

You are rocking the boat... expect to get splashed. No way around it I'm afraid.

diveout

The Muppet wrote: »

Is it binding on both parties?

There is no need for the op to be afraid of the Family court nor for it to cause conflict between both parents. If they can both agree a plan its best to get it agreed through the family court to avoid people changing dates etc on a whim.

That's my personal experience perhaps others differ.

Yes it is.

Family court is an arbitrary system by which there is a winner and a loser. It is inerhently polarising and a bottomless pit of conflict in which you are losing all your money only to put the solictor's kids through college.

In mediation the parties have far more control over things and the court then backs up the agreement.

scholarsmate1

diveout wrote: »

Lol... well if I had the answer to that...I'd be a millionaire...

You are rocking the boat... expect to get splashed. No way around it I'm afraid.

Haha this is very true I suppose. Thanks a million for getting back to me.

I truly just want what's best for the boys and to play a huge part in there lives.

The Muppet

diveout wrote: »

Yes it is.

Family court is an arbitrary system by which there is a winner and a loser. It is inerhently polarising and a bottomless pit of conflict in which you are losing all your money only to put the solictor's kids through college.

In mediation the parties have far more control over things and the court then backs up the agreement.

Eh there is no need to employ a solicitor in the family court, The winner is the children which is as it should be

Geomy

Kids of that age need consistency and all that moving from one place to another can be bad for their school and routine.

The kids needs come first not the parents.

Most Judges allow over night access every second weekend and a few weeks during the summer.
And time during Christmas

You'll get used to it I had to

By the way 100 euro is a lot to be handing over...

Ask her to break down how the 100 Euros is being spent. ....

Zizigirl

Hi Scolarsmate1, I think it's definitely a good idea to think about formalising things so other than real exceptions the schedule won't change. If it helps you to know that we have split weeks here running on a two week roster so both households have a mix of school days and weekend days. It has worked for us for nearly 10 years and is court ordered. It does change at times due to occasions but it's all good!

scholarsmate1

The Muppet wrote: »

Eh there is no need to employ a solicitor in the family court, The winner is the children which is as it should be

I love the idea of the children being the winners, in years to come I want them thinking about the fact that maybe mam and dad did not work but they made it work for us.

My kids are young but our roster has worked and I think routine is a big help to them.

As I say my fear is a judge saying you take them a lot and cutting my time.

And I'm finding it hard to convince there mam that it makes sense to get our roster done as a court order so neither of us can mess the other about.

diveout

scholarsmate1 wrote: »

I love the idea of the children being the winners, in years to come I want them thinking about the fact that maybe mam and dad did not work but they made it work for us.

My kids are young but our roster has worked and I think routine is a big help to them.

As I say my fear is a judge saying you take them a lot and cutting my time.

And I'm finding it hard to convince there mam that it makes sense to get our roster done as a court order so neither of us can mess the other about.

Well yes,because once you have a court order in there, then it's obvious the trust isn't there. And obviously the trust isn't there or you wouldn't be mentioning court.

Propose mediation and sort out the parenting plan.

Yes a judge could very well cut your time. That's the thing, you don't know what will happen, you have limited control. And if you do go to court, you can expect relations to sour. So be careful.

scholarsmate1

Zizigirl wrote: »

Hi Scolarsmate1, I think it's definitely a good idea to think about formalising things so other than real exceptions the schedule won't change. If it helps you to know that we have split weeks here running on a two week roster so both households have a mix of school days and weekend days. It has worked for us for nearly 10 years and is court ordered. It does change at times due to occasions but it's all good!

This is exactly what I want. Really hope it goes according to plan and thank you for your reply.

scholarsmate1

Geomy wrote: »

Kids of that age need consistency and all that moving from one place to another can be bad for their school and routine.

The kids needs come first not the parents.

Most Judges allow over night access every second weekend and a few weeks during the summer.
And time during Christmas

You'll get used to it I had to

By the way 100 euro is a lot to be handing over...

Ask her to break down how the 100 Euros is being spent. ....

I don't bring up the money thing to much... again for fear of rocking the boat. When I did ask I was told it's my duty to pay her household bills.

I earn under 2000 and pay 1000 rent and then 400 to her.

The Muppet

I'd be pretty sure given those income and expenditure figures that maintenance would be set at a lower rate than you are paying.

It's very unlikely that a judge will cut your access to your children without good reason, you sound like a good dad so I wouldn't worry about that, The judge will do whats best for the children

diveout

The Muppet wrote: »

I'd be pretty sure given those income and expenditure figures that maintenance would be set at a lower rate than you are paying.

It's very unlikely that a judge will cut your access to your children without good reason, you sound like a good dad so I wouldn't worry about that, The judge will do whats best for the children

Not necessarily. 100 a week for two kids, if you think of it as 50 a week per child, not really that much.

scholarsmate1

diveout wrote: »

Not necessarily. 100 a week for two kids, if you think of it as 50 a week per child, not really that much.

100 per week for 2 boys who spend 3 to 4 nights in mine I think is sufficient.

Anyway this is most definitely not about how much money I'm paying.

Sleepy

If I'm reading your OP correctly, you have the kids 7 days out of 14? Ergo, there should be no maintenance changing hands at all as your partner is just as responsible for providing for the kids as you are..

Unless diveout has presented her credentials as a qualified child psychologist, remember that her opinion on your access arrangement is just that: an opinion, from a stranger, on the Internet.

IANAL but I can't see how there's any reason to fear the court cutting your access unless your ex pushes for it and the courts are sexist enough to allow it.

scholarsmate1

Sleepy wrote: »

If I'm reading your OP correctly, you have the kids 7 days out of 14?

Ergo, there should be no maintenance changing hands.

Yes I do 7 nights out of 14. But because I work during the day I have been handing over the money.

scholarsmate1

Sleepy wrote: »

If I'm reading your OP correctly, you have the kids 7 days out of 14? Ergo, there should be no maintenance changing hands at all as your partner is just as responsible for providing for the kids as you are..

Unless diveout has presented her credentials as a qualified child psychologist, remember that her opinion on your access arrangement is just that: an opinion, from a stranger, on the Internet.

IANAL but I can't see how there's any reason to fear the court cutting your access unless your ex pushes for it and the courts are sexist enough to allow it.

The problem is I think if my ex thought money may be cut she would ask for my hours to be cut as brutal as that sounds.

I really do just wonder are there success stories for dad's in court these days. I live to see my boys and want nothing to hinder my time with them.

Sleepy

The courts treat both separately so get your access sorted out first, then seek a maintenance adjustment.

diveout

Sleepy wrote: »

If I'm reading your OP correctly, you have the kids 7 days out of 14? Ergo, there should be no maintenance changing hands at all as your partner is just as responsible for providing for the kids as you are..

Unless diveout has presented her credentials as a qualified child psychologist, remember that her opinion on your access arrangement is just that: an opinion, from a stranger, on the Internet.

IANAL but I can't see how there's any reason to fear the court cutting your access unless your ex pushes for it and the courts are sexist enough to allow it.

That is all anything here is: an opinion from a stranger on the internet. That's what OP asked for.

You haven't presented as a qualified barrister or family court judge so....

FactCheck

If the children are in childcare then 50 per child per week seems close enough to 50% of their expenses.

The thing that leaps out about your arrangements that it is all about how well it suits the adults. You work shifts, you get them Monday this week, Tuesday the next.

To an outsider, we think "well, living in separate houses half the time sounds like a bloody nightmare". I mean how many adults do you know who do that happily and willingly? It sounds like they must never have a chance to relax in their own space.

But you're the parents and there's nothing in your post to suggest your ex is saying this arrangement is no longer working for the children. So if you both truly think this is the best way for the two little kids to live then you know them best so who cares what a load of strangers think.

If the problem here is purely that the ex has occasionally started saying "hey, Wednesday won't work this week can we just skip it" then for now I would suggest just letting that go. A complicated "roster" like this is going to require a lot of flexibility and give and take. You say that this arrangement suits you very well so don't sweat the odd day here or there.

January

Hey guys, just a reminder that legal advice is not allowed to be given here.

cbyrd

Just recently coming out of the whole process.. the best way is to put it on paper and get it done in the court, then no-one can mess with it. You can either go direct through a solicitor and get a court date or go to a mediator and have it processed through court. Either way its done and your access is protected. Days you have your children are not put down in practicality but in terms of the best and more quality time you can afford the children.

I had given my ex access every weekend and one was long one short, when we went to do it legally, i was TOLD that i had to have one full weekend with the kids as it was unfair to me (their mam) that i didn't have any weekend time with them during school time. This is done on one of his short weekends and he gets the friday night back on monday instead. I just had my first one the weekend before last and it was brilliant being able to gather everyone up and go off for a few days.

The mediator was court appointed and once the plan was drawn up its sent to the solitors who will lodge it in court on the 18th. We don't have to be there.
Good luck with it, its better to solve these issues before they become a major headache like they did for us, if we had done it right in the first place when we split first we could've saved a lot of both money and heartache..;)

Just an add on, the courts don't see it as your right to see the children, but as the childrens RIGHT to spend time with each parent, maintenance must be provided to the ex-spouse and children as they are still legally married and its the 1976 act that states it. The court will decided once an income and expenditure account is provided by both parties. It has nothing to do with amount of time. This also goes for lone parents, even if the time is 50 50 if the court decide one party is still to receive it then they get it..

The Corinthian

scholarsmate1 wrote: »

When I did ask I was told it's my duty to pay her household bills.

Unless you were married (or cohabiting for more than two years prior to 2009), it's not. Your duty it to cover half of the costs related to your kids expenses and upkeep. You have no duty or obligation to pay for her personal expenses and upkeep.

If you were married (or cohabiting for more than two years prior to 2009) then your ex does have a claim to your supporting her financially. Given this that this includes paying all her household bills is something that would be decided by the courts, if appropriate, not because she says so.

diveout wrote: »

Not necessarily. 100 a week for two kids, if you think of it as 50 a week per child, not really that much.

To begin with it's not 50 a week per child, but typically a sliding scale because of economies of scale. Minor point, but important to note.

Secondly, 100 a week for two kids, who spend 7 days a week with the custodial parent is not really that much. But they're not spending 7 days a week with the custodial parent, and so during the time they're with him he's spending additional money to clothe them, feed them and put a roof over their heads on top of that 100 per week.

Thirdly, and according to him, he has about 150 Euro to spend after rent and maintenance. And even then, out of that he is paying for his kids whenever they stay with him. It is entirely possible that he has less disposable income than his ex after then children are covered, which if she is not working really does take the mickey.

Finally, much of the routine they follow may be 'adult-centric', but that's life. Some happily married couples have a parent away for work over half of the time, or doing long hours so that they're up before the kids are awake and home after they've gone to bed.

Of course, they can quit their jobs and be free to follow a completely 'child-centric' routine, but then they'd first need a magic money tree growing the basement they can shake whenever they need cash.

Alternatively, you can live in the real World and do the best that you can given the circumstances you're in.

diveout

The Corinthian wrote: »

Finally, much of the routine they follow may be 'adult-centric', but that's life. Some happily married couples have a parent away for work over half of the time, or doing long hours so that they're up before the kids are awake and home after they've gone to bed.

Of course, they can quit their jobs and be free to follow a completely 'child-centric' routine, but then they'd first need a magic money tree growing the basement they can shake whenever they need cash.

Alternatively, you can live in the real World and do the best that you can given the circumstances you're in.

And there are very real consequences to an adult centric parenting plan. It's not a case of 'that's life..' and brush it off. There is no one size fits all but OP should consider the hidden costs, and I don't just mean financial, before choices are made and the cascade effect gets tripped.

The Corinthian

diveout wrote: »

And there are very real consequences to an adult centric parenting plan. It's not a case of 'that's life..' and brush it off. There is no one size fits all but OP should consider the hidden costs, and I don't just mean financial, before choices are made and the cascade effect gets tripped.

There are very real consequences to any choice, decision or plan. I did not suggest that there weren't, only that in the Real World you can't always take the ideal path or the consequences of the ideal path are sometimes worse than those of other paths, something that from your posts you appeared not to recognize.

diveout

The Corinthian wrote: »

There are very real consequences to any choice, decision or plan. I did not suggest that there weren't, only that in the Real World you can't always take the ideal path or the consequences of the ideal path are sometimes worse than those of other paths, something that from your posts you appeared not to recognize.

No one is talking about ideals here. Don't know how you came up with that.

The Corinthian

diveout wrote: »

No one is talking about ideals here. Don't know how you came up with that.

Then fantasy if you prefer, because you did not seem to recognize that some approaches are sometimes neither practical or possible in the Real World. Note, I say seem, because that is how you came across and perhaps did not represent your views accurately when you did so.

diveout

The Corinthian wrote: »

Then fantasy if you prefer, because you did not seem to recognize that some approaches are sometimes neither practical or possible in the Real World. Note, I say seem, because that is how you came across and perhaps did not represent your views accurately when you did so.

What? Ok I am not going to respond to this because this is the second post where you get personal, with telling me I fail to recognise reality and now fantasizing. That is not ok. So I am disengaging now with you.

OP, I hope you find a workable solution for your family.

The Corinthian

diveout wrote: »

What? Ok I am not going to respond to this because this is the second post where you get personal, with telling me I fail to recognise reality and now fantasizing. That is not ok. So I am disengaging now with you.

I'm not getting personal. I said what you wrote was unrealistic (ideal, fantasy, whatever) and even repeatedly pointed out that perhaps you did not want it to come across like that, which can happen to the best of us.

I can't think of how I could be less personal. Calm yourself.

diveout

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'm not getting personal. I said what you wrote was unrealistic (ideal, fantasy, whatever) and even repeatedly pointed out that perhaps you did not want it to come across like that, which can happen to the best of us.

I can't think of how I could be less personal. Calm yourself.

Nope. You called it fantasy, yet did not prove what exactly is fantasy and now you are telling me to calm myself, which is also personal and not your place to say.

What I said that an adult centred parenting plan has consequences that should be strongy considered.

However, I never advocated an extreme polar opposite of a child centred one either. So the fantasy might be on your end.

You could argue that the split week 50/50 is an unrealistic ideal too and a fantasy, but I don't see you calling that one out.

January

Take it to PM guys if you want to continue to bicker on.