New or Second Hand Milking Parlour!?!?

TheClubMan

Hi folks,

I'm hoping to replace the old pipeline milking machine on my farm in the Autumn. I only milk 35 cows and won't milk any more than 45 cows on this farm. I would be happy with a 6 unit parlour. The question is do I go second hand or brand new? I see small milking machines in good order are hard enough to come by on done deal lately and I haven't got a big budget for a new machine. Do the likes of Dairymaster and De Leval even make machines as small as 6 units anymore?


Any advice is appreciated.

TheClubMan

Timmaay

Call up any of your local milking parlour dealers and ask them what trade ins they have! You will pay more from them than one straight off donedeal, but they will install it and all and provide new rubbers etc etc. In terms of price I'd guess in around 1000 per unit, so say 6k for a 6unit. Contrast this to stuff on donedeal, you might pickup a 6unit for 500quid there, but by the time you have ripped it out, fixed it back in yourown shed with loads of new parts, I'd guess you wouldnt be far off the 6k.

Only thing I'll say about a new parlour is there might be 60% grants next year if your under 40, this would make installing a new parlour alot more competitive!

mf240

An 8 or 10 unit wouldnt be an awfull lot dearer second hand.

I got a second hand 10 unit with new rails and a new wash down pump and second hand meal troughs fitted for 10 k.

Six is very slow and you be waiting around a lot.

Sam Kade

mf240 wrote: »

An 8 or 10 unit wouldnt be an awfull lot dearer second hand.

I got a second hand 10 unit with new rails and a new wash down pump and second hand meal troughs fitted for 10 k.

Six is very slow and you be waiting around a lot.

+1

Deepsouthwest

Sam Kade wrote: »

+1

U'll only get that 60% grant if ur under 40 and have the herd number in ur name for less than 5 yrs, which rules me out! Most guys should qualify for the 40% though

Greengrass1

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

U'll only get that 60% grant if ur under 40 and have the herd number in ur name for less than 5 yrs, which rules me out! Most guys should qualify for the 40% though

If your down on herd number with your father will you get 60 grant?

Viewtodiefor

Greengrass1 wrote: »

If your down on herd number with your father will you get 60 grant?

Yes if you are in partnership and have a majority control of it

Timmaay

Where are yas getting all the info on the 60% grant? Do you know if you can get say a TAMS grant and a 60% grant, ie could I get my bulk tank under the TAMS and the parlour under the 60% grant?

Viewtodiefor

Timmaay wrote: »

Where are yas getting all the info on the 60% grant? Do you know if you can get say a TAMS grant and a 60% grant, ie could I get my bulk tank under the TAMS and the parlour under the 60% grant?

Tim I'm not sure. If you have applied and approved already I think not. (But maybe) I'm getting advice from my Teagasc man who is quiet good.

Deepsouthwest

Timmaay wrote: »

Where are yas getting all the info on the 60% grant? Do you know if you can get say a TAMS grant and a 60% grant, ie could I get my bulk tank under the TAMS and the parlour under the 60% grant?

I was under the impression it was a clean slate for the new grants, with a ceiling of €80k

Deepsouthwest

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Yes if you are in partnership and have a majority control of it

Not sure about this, I was in a parent partnership in the past and I failed to get the young farmer top up as we both needed to qualify. This was the old FIS (farm improvement scheme) it might be different now. For a start maybe don't include ur dad's name on the application!

Viewtodiefor

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Not sure about this, I was in a parent partnership in the past and I failed to get the young farmer top up as we both needed to qualify. This was the old FIS (farm improvement scheme) it might be different now. For a start maybe don't include ur dad's name on the application!

Ok I'm not 100% sure on the 60% grant (but pretty sure) but def it holds true for the young farmer sfp top up.

Greengrass1

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Ok I'm not 100% sure on the 60% grant (but pretty sure) but def it holds true for the young farmer sfp top up.

frjn

If I get the young farmer top up we will get back what we will loose with the new rules

Timmaay

Ok another question, whats the young farmer sfp top up?

Greengrass1

Timmaay wrote: »

Ok another question, whats the young farmer sfp top up?

25% on what sfp is now

Viewtodiefor

Greengrass1 wrote: »

25% on what sfp is now

Not exactly greengrass, its 25% of the national average which works out at approx €62 per entitlement

Greengrass1

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Not exactly greengrass, its 25% of the national average which works out at approx €62 per entitlement

Are ye sure?

Viewtodiefor

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Are ye sure?

Yes

larrymiller

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Yes

Final answer?

PN14

How does one apply for the 25% top up lads on SPF. Apologies OP for asking question on back of ur thread

TheClubMan

Timmaay wrote: »

Call up any of your local milking parlour dealers and ask them what trade ins they have! You will pay more from them than one straight off donedeal, but they will install it and all and provide new rubbers etc etc. In terms of price I'd guess in around 1000 per unit, so say 6k for a 6unit. Contrast this to stuff on donedeal, you might pickup a 6unit for 500quid there, but by the time you have ripped it out, fixed it back in yourown shed with loads of new parts, I'd guess you wouldnt be far off the 6k.

Only thing I'll say about a new parlour is there might be 60% grants next year if your under 40, this would make installing a new parlour alot more competitive!

Thanks I'll do that. How much do you reckon the installation would cost? What brand of second hand machine do you think are best?

I'm under 40 but I still have to complete the second year of the Green Cert which will begin in June 2015 and join a partnership with my father. I think I'll be eligible for the 60% then. It is an option as the shed needs to be replaced as well.

Have the applications for grants opened by the way?

TheClubMan

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

U'll only get that 60% grant if ur under 40 and have the herd number in ur name for less than 5 yrs, which rules me out! Most guys should qualify for the 40% though

The grants will be available for 5 years won't they? I won't have my green cert completed until 2016 so I presume I will be able to get the 60% grant then?

TheClubMan

mf240 wrote: »

An 8 or 10 unit wouldnt be an awfull lot dearer second hand.

I got a second hand 10 unit with new rails and a new wash down pump and second hand meal troughs fitted for 10 k.

Six is very slow and you be waiting around a lot.

Did you buy your parlour through a dealer or privately? Did you get someone to install it? How much did it come to overall if you don't mind me asking?
If I could get my hands on a good second hand 6+ parlour I would put it in

mf240

Dealer fitted it at that price. New rubberware and a few new clawpieces.

It was a very good price imo.

Timmaay

mf240 wrote: »

Dealer fitted it at that price. New rubberware and a few new clawpieces.

It was a very good price imo.

Good price definitely, but if a 60% grant can be got for a new parlour that would be a no brainer. You'll get a new no frills Gascoigne 10unit parlour installed for 25k all stall work, mangers, ready to milk. The 60% grant leaves it at 10k.

mf240

Ya i suppose. But it suited me at the time.

The rails in mine are left big enough for a sixteen unit and the ten came with a pump big enough to drive 16. It was nearly new as had been replace a couple of years before machine was traded in. Came with swing arms and a low line wash. It will milk the cows exact same as a new one.

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

Good price definitely, but if a 60% grant can be got for a new parlour that would be a no brainer. You'll get a new no frills Gascoigne 10unit parlour installed for 25k all stall work, mangers, ready to milk. The 60% grant leaves it at 10k.

Unless the criteria has changed for the new grant coming in you dont get the grant on stallwork/managers its milking equipment only your talking around 6,000 grand plus for managers plus stallwork fitted

Timmaay

jaymla627 wrote: »

Unless the criteria has changed for the new grant coming in you dont get the grant on stallwork/managers its milking equipment only your talking around 6,000 grand plus for managers plus stallwork fitted

Hmmmmm ok that's news to me, puts a spanner in the works ha.

einn32

Timmaay wrote: »

Hmmmmm ok that's news to me, puts a spanner in the works ha.

Correct me if wrong but for young farmers it includes dairy equipment and buildings. That's what I took from the information. Its called the young farmers capital investment scheme. It includes TAMS II plus some extras such as dairy buildings.

TheClubMan

Timmaay wrote: »

Good price definitely, but if a 60% grant can be got for a new parlour that would be a no brainer. You'll get a new no frills Gascoigne 10unit parlour installed for 25k all stall work, mangers, ready to milk. The 60% grant leaves it at 10k.

It looks like I have a lot of thinking to do that's for sure. I'm going to seek help from an adviser also. The existing building needs to be knocked as it is too small and old. I would be a happy man milking in brand new 10 unit!

TheClubMan

On the subject of new parlours what brand does everyone suggest and why?

Timmaay

TheClubMan wrote: »

On the subject of new parlours what brand does everyone suggest and why?

Makes no odds, they are all basically the same, a few sets of clusters and a milk and vacuum line. However reliable dealer support is important, and the dimensions variety between parlours so milk in afew before you decide. In terms of price it seems to be Gascoigne, fullwood and dairymaster at the cheaper end, you will pay alot more for likes of a GEA but lads argue they are worth the extra.

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

Makes no odds, they are all basically the same, a few sets of clusters and a milk and vacuum line. However reliable dealer support is important, and the dimensions variety between parlours so milk in afew before you decide. In terms of price it seems to be Gascoigne, fullwood and dairymaster at the cheaper end, you will pay alot more for likes of a GEA but lads argue they are worth the extra.

Not that much dearer and definetly worth the extra.dealer support is critical as u need to be able to milk every morning and evening without much delay

farmerjj

Timmaay wrote: »

Makes no odds, they are all basically the same, a few sets of clusters and a milk and vacuum line.

So by that reasoning all cars are the same engine and wheels, I would do a lot of research about the different makes before investing +25k and obviously what service the dealer gives after.

stanflt

Can young farmer grant be got on a 150cow shed with robots or is that just pushing my luck

keep going

Timmaay wrote: »

Good price definitely, but if a 60% grant can be got for a new parlour that would be a no brainer. You'll get a new no frills Gascoigne 10unit parlour installed for 25k all stall work, mangers, ready to milk. The 60% grant leaves it at 10k.

Thats 60 % in theory but to claim you have to have everything up to spec and certified but yes in alot of situations its the right thing to do.however in a setup rhis size I would go for a second hand one as they are freely available at very right money and a less streamlined milking routine isnt as much of an issue at lower numbers.you could have a parlour in for 5 or 6 k with alittle knowledge and the right installer and inthese size setups there usually is no tax advantage

darragh_haven

stanflt wrote: »

Can young farmer grant be got on a 150cow shed with robots or is that just pushing my luck

I think there is a cap of €80,000 that the grant can be drawn on. (Open to correction tho)

einn32

darragh_haven wrote: »

I think there is a cap of €80,000 that the grant can be drawn on. (Open to correction tho)

Yes ceiling of €80,000.

fiat10090dt

Dm very poor . Gea no back up

mahoney_j

fiat10090dt wrote: »

Dm very poor . Gea no back up

Gea here and find back up pretty good,maby not as good as dm but there Irish and very well established here

TheClubMan

fiat10090dt wrote: »

Dm very poor . Gea no back up

Dm are well established in my area and provide a good service.

fiat10090dt

Very poor up here . Quality poor too