2003 Audi Allroad Tip Problem

Tropheus

Hi,

My 2003 Allroad has 214k miles on the clock. Yesterday, with no warning, the Tiptronic gearbox started slipping when starting off in first gear and continued to slip in low gears under moderate acceleration. It got progressively worse today to the point that it was touch and go when trying to get started on a hill. It's ok when motorway cruising, but the challenge is to get it going in the first place. It's essentially off the road at this stage as I don't want to risk getting stranded.

My local mechanic had a look and says that he will check the ATF level tomorrow to see if that could be the problem - I'll be very lucky if it is. If not, it's looking like a rebuild and he would advise me to get a specialist to do it.

I've never had the fluid or filter changed. I know this has been discussed a few times on the forum, but when a main dealer was servicing up to about 150k miles, they said there was no need. There's no guarantee that a fluid change would have made any difference, but it does have me thinking.

Any idea of cost and recommendations as to who could do it?

I've had the car from new and cosmetically it's in great shape. However, I'll have to seriously consider the economics of spending big money on it given the mileage and age. It's a pity because it's a great car.

George Dalton

Where are you located?

When the problem occurs do all of the gear positions on the dash display light up red together?

Have you had a diagnostic scan done?

Tropheus

Hi George,

I'm in North County Dublin. There's no indication on the dash when it happens. I did a scan with VCDS and the only code for the gearbox was:

1 Fault Found:

17117 - Gear 3: Incorrect Ratio

P0733 - 35-00 - -

My mechanic is going to try and check the ATF level this morning, but I'm not holding out much hope of that solving anything.

George Dalton

Give Pat in Autotranz a call, he will sort you out:

http://www.autotranz.ie/

Tropheus

Thanks George. I'll give him a call. The ATF level was fine so looks like something more serious.

Tropheus

Dropped up to Autotranz today. Just made it as the car was really struggling on inclines. The problem seems to be the drum that is used for the first 3 gears. It's unusual that I had any drive as they normally give up completely. However, I wasn't far from that point today.

The gearbox needs a complete overhaul. At 215k miles, it really owes me nothing and it was just normal wear and tear particularly for a car spending much of its life in the city. He didn't think changing the ATF at any stage would have made a material difference. However, he did state that he recommends that it's done on Audi Tips every 100k miles.

I'm looking at the guts of €2k for the work. He'll know more when they dismantle it and it should be ready in about a week.

It's a lot for a car that's only worth about €6-8k. However, I really like the car and the engine is strong so hopefully I'll get another 100k miles out of it when this work is done.

Squatman

Tropheus wrote: »

Dropped up to Autotranz today. Just made it as the car was really struggling on inclines. The problem seems to be the drum that is used for the first 3 gears. It's unusual that I had any drive as they normally give up completely. However, I wasn't far from that point today.

The gearbox needs a complete overhaul. At 215k miles, it really owes me nothing and it was just normal wear and tear particularly for a car spending much of its life in the city. He didn't think changing the ATF at any stage would have made a material difference. However, he did state that he recommends that it's done on Audi Tips every 100k miles.

I'm looking at the guts of €2k for the work. He'll know more when they dismantle it and it should be ready in about a week.

It's a lot for a car that's only worth about €6-8k. However, I really like the car and the engine is strong so hopefully I'll get another 100k miles out of it when this work is done.

No offence, but there is no way a 03 allroad is worth 6-8. Half would be closer, but still expensive. IMO. This may not be a financially sound decision to rebuild the car, but i suppose, if your not selling it, it doesnt matter.

Tropheus

Squatman wrote: »

No offence, but there is no way a 03 allroad is worth 6-8. Half would be closer, but still expensive. IMO. This may not be a financially sound decision to rebuild the car, but i suppose, if your not selling it, it doesnt matter.

Maybe not, but as you say, I'm not selling it.

There were a couple of guys looking to purchase Allroads about six months ago and were PMing me for advice. The stuff they were looking at around the €4-6k mark was muck.

Suspension and control arms are a weak point on the car and all cars that they looked at needed suspension work. There was also one with a turbo problem. They're a great car, but are expensive to maintain. Mine is in great order (bar the gearbox obviously) so I think I might get a bit more given it will need nothing done to it. Could be wishful thinking on my part.

I think there are two ways to approach a gearbox problem. The first is to just get what's causing the problem fixed. That's pretty short sighted as most of the charge is labour and something else is likely to go wrong in a few months time. €2k is for a full overhaul so hopefully it will be in good shape for another 100k miles.

I agree, it's borderline as to whether it makes financial sense to put that sort of money into a car of that value/age/mileage. It's something I had to think long and hard about.

tossy

The bottom line is if you sell it as is you are going to get 2k max. Put the 2k you would have spent on the gear box to that and you have a budget of 4k to find a similar car (big diesel avant,Quattro) even if you put another 2k to that you are still going to struggle to find a clean car that you know has an otherwise good service history like your own.

So it makes sense to me to fix and keep.

For future reference you know when Audi say sealed for life in reference to gearboxes and diffs ignore that advice and get the oil changed every 80-100k.

Squatman

Tropheus wrote: »

Maybe not, but as you say, I'm not selling it.

There were a couple of guys looking to purchase Allroads about six months ago and were PMing me for advice. The stuff they were looking at around the €4-6k mark was muck.

Suspension and control arms are a weak point on the car and all cars that they looked at needed suspension work. There was also one with a turbo problem. They're a great car, but are expensive to maintain. Mine is in great order (bar the gearbox obviously) so I think I might get a bit more given it will need nothing done to it. Could be wishful thinking on my part.

I think there are two ways to approach a gearbox problem. The first is to just get what's causing the problem fixed. That's pretty short sighted as most of the charge is labour and something else is likely to go wrong in a few months time. €2k is for a full overhaul so hopefully it will be in good shape for another 100k miles.

I agree, it's borderline as to whether it makes financial sense to put that sort of money into a car of that value/age/mileage. It's something I had to think long and hard about.

Yea, I spent a lot of time looking for a good one, and had to give up

allroad

The gearbox on my allroad packed in a few weeks ago. 170,000 miles on the clock. Thought it might have needed an oil change (it's had two so far), but sadly not. The question was whether a rebuild was sensible at this sort of mileage, or go for a used tiptronic box.
I opted for the used box, got one on ebay, with a few months warranty and it's now been fitted at a fraction of the cost of a rebuild.
Couldn't justify the cost of rebuilding when another sickeningly expensive problem might be just around the corner.
I've already replaced both front air bladders, rebuilt the compressor, replaced the viscous coupling, radiator and repaired the RNSE.

Although it is the last of the C5's (registered in 2006), the high mileage makes it worth more to me than any prospective buyer, so I'll keep it for occasional use and particularly bad weather.
Best car I have ever owned, but fragile and overly complicated.

Tropheus

I had a look online at a second hand box, but the prices were pretty close to the rebuild cost and once labour was added probably exceeded it.

The problem with a second hand box is that you can't be fully sure of what you're buying. Having said that, you have a 3 month warranty, I got get a six month warranty for a €2k outlay.

Do you mind me asking what the total cost of the second hand box comes to including fitting?

I agree, these cars do have their week points. Suspension is definitely one of them and probably something I've spent the most on as I've had the car since new.

Have you checked out the non OEM air springs from Arnott in the US? They are very well rated and are about half the price of the OEM part. I have them in all four corners at this stage.

allroad

The box was £550 delivered to the garage and the removal of the old box, fitting the replacement, replacing the fluid and the diagnostic work was around £450. Given that I'd already spent around £1200 on a full timing belt service and sundries a few months ago, it was more than enough for me.
I suppose it seems slightly over half the price of a rebuild, but an estimated cost can turn into a horror story once the work starts. At least a replacement is a fixed cost.

Both replacement airsprings are Arnott's. Got them from a dealer in Germany for about £230 each.

I've had this car for 5 years and it has wanted for nothing in that time. I have put 120,000 miles on it and it has been a joy to own. It's without doubt the most capable and comfortable car I've owned. I had a real problem buying another car recently, a more frugal workmobile, because everything was such a stepdown from the allroad.
If only it wasn't so complex.