eBike discussion

clint_silver

I've got a 25km commute to dublin city centre, I had been trying to do 1-2 days a week on my road bike, depending on weather its 50-60 minutes in, 70-80 minutes home. leaves me knackered and too long for me really. drive is only 30-35 minutes in traffic. dont want a moped as want some sort of daily exercise which I struggle to get with 4 kids at home.

So looking for an ebike which will give me what I need. the max speed of 25km/h is a bit under my remit to keep the commute to under 50 minutes if possible. there are some available that will do 45-55kmph.
example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171374245524

The only one I could find in a shop in ireland that will do 45kmph is 3,500euro which is above my budget.

Ive read the laws and understand the 250W motors and 25kmph limits and the grey areas around it. tax and insurance isnt that much even if I went for it so not too bothered.

My 2 questions here are
1. Does anyone know a shop in ireland that does an ebike under 2000 euro that will do those higher speeds?
2. Are there conversion kits available in ireland that will do above. ie, 45-55kmph?

Lumen

As I understand them, e-bikes are just not intended for going 45-55kph, they're more designed to keep a steady non-sweaty ~25kph without slowing down on hills or into the wind.

Empirically, I have never been passed on my commute by an e-bike and I pass plenty of them, despite me averaging only 30kph. They're OK on hills (although not as fast as me going eyeballs out) but are really slow on the flats.

Would you not be better off driving half way, or doing the full commute only 2 or 3 days a week and the other days using moped/car?

Not sure how you can average 50kph over a commute into Dublin city centre. Are you leaving at the crack of dawn? What's your route?

Invincible

clint_silver wrote: »

I've got a 25km commute to dublin city centre, I had been trying to do 1-2 days a week on my road bike, depending on weather its 50-60 minutes in, 70-80 minutes home. leaves me knackered and too long for me really. drive is only 30-35 minutes in traffic. dont want a moped as want some sort of daily exercise which I struggle to get with 4 kids at home.

So looking for an ebike which will give me what I need. the max speed of 25km/h is a bit under my remit to keep the commute to under 50 minutes if possible. there are some available that will do 45-55kmph.
example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171374245524

The only one I could find in a shop in ireland that will do 45kmph is 3,500euro which is above my budget.

Ive read the laws and understand the 250W motors and 25kmph limits and the grey areas around it. tax and insurance isnt that much even if I went for it so not too bothered.

My 2 questions here are
1. Does anyone know a shop in ireland that does an ebike under 2000 euro that will do those higher speeds?
2. Are there conversion kits available in ireland that will do above. ie, 45-55kmph?

Down with that sort of thing :-)
Get a bit more practice on the route and it will become easier on your road bike and you'll become faster. It's not a mountain bike you have by any chance?

Jabel

clint_silver wrote: »

I've got a 25km commute to dublin city centre, I had been trying to do 1-2 days a week on my road bike, depending on weather its 50-60 minutes in, 70-80 minutes home. leaves me knackered and too long for me really. drive is only 30-35 minutes in traffic. dont want a moped as want some sort of daily exercise which I struggle to get with 4 kids at home.

So looking for an ebike which will give me what I need. the max speed of 25km/h is a bit under my remit to keep the commute to under 50 minutes if possible. there are some available that will do 45-55kmph.
example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171374245524

The only one I could find in a shop in ireland that will do 45kmph is 3,500euro which is above my budget.

Ive read the laws and understand the 250W motors and 25kmph limits and the grey areas around it. tax and insurance isnt that much even if I went for it so not too bothered.

My 2 questions here are
1. Does anyone know a shop in ireland that does an ebike under 2000 euro that will do those higher speeds?
2. Are there conversion kits available in ireland that will do above. ie, 45-55kmph?

Round these parts that kinda talk will get a man in a whole heap of trouble mister. There's some no good sonsabitches round here with itchy triggers upon mere mention of that there thing you call an ebike
What's wrong with a horse anyway?:D

clint_silver

Its carbon fibre road bike I have. Im out past ashbourne, come in old N2, finglas, glasnevin, town. Whatever about the glasnevin hill the N2 isnt the kindest road to cycle on.

you're gonna have to trust me on this, I tried for a better part of a year to commute on the bike. A full week commuting left me knackered at end of week. I did full weeks, 3 days, 2 days. That journey home was killing me though and with the kids, was eating into my time that I just dont have in the evening so no point in saying toughen up. I just dont have the time for the commute on the bike. Fastest I ever done it home was 70 minutes. If traffic is light I can do it in under 30 mins in the car.

I did part commute to phoenix park for a while. That actually works ok as in I can do the whole journey in under 45 mins by the time I park up and get bike out and can add a few mile to journey in the park if I was feeling energetic in the summer evnings, but now I want to get rid of the car altogether as we have a family car at home anyway.

I could get a moped but Id lose any fitness element at all then. The ebike seems the best fit, but only the faster one.

Lumen

Based on previous reviews (particularly from Mad_Lad) I'd get something with a Bosch motor.

Your problem is going to be range. 50km round trip is at or beyond the limit of cheaper e-bikes, particularly once the battery starts degrading. I assume you can't recharge at work.

Maybe something like a Raleigh Motus. 400Wh for around €2500.

http://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Raleigh-Motus-2014-Cross-Bar-Bosch-eBike?sort=p.price&order=ASC

JMcL

I'd say a 50km round trip on a single charge would be pushing it.

From the experiences of one of my neighbours who has had an ebike for about 3 years now, even at the start he'd just about manage the 30km odd round trip on a full charge. More seriously, I came across him on his wife's bike a few weeks ago and apparently the battery on the ebike was knackered - replacement price somewhere in the region of €500. His current thinking is that he'd get a damn fine second hand bike for the same price as the new battery

pauliemck

I have been passed by a few people on electric bikes doing more than 35 km/h. The EU laws state that the motor should cut out if the speed is greater than 25 km/h, so I assume that these people have managed to modify the control that shuts the motor off at high speeds.

The power of the motor is limited to 250 W. A quick calculation on an online cycling power/speed calculator states that for 250 W of power on a bike weighing 25 kg with MTB tyres and a rider of 80 kg in a non-aero position would be equivalent to 29 km/h. This is on the flat with no head/tail wind.

Therefore, if the speed wasn't restricted to 25 km/h, you should be able to travel at least 35 km/h with your own pedal assistance on a standard electric bike.

The first e-bike I looked at online (€1500, ciebike.ie) had a 36 V, 16 Ah battery which would give 2.28 h of run time with a 250 W motor running on full power. Granted, you have to take the battery capacity with a pinch of salt and it will decrease over time, but at 35 km/h you would be looking at a 1.5 h round trip which should give plenty off lee way. A cheaper bike (€1200) that I looked at had an 11 Ah battery, which would be cutting it tight. Of course, if the battery dies you can always just cycle normally.

Of course, modifying the control to not cut out at high speed is illegal unless you pay tax/insurance on the bike, but might be easier and cheaper than finding a bike with a higher power than the EU regulations. There are definitely people out there that have done it - and probably aren't paying tax/insurance - so I assume it wouldn't be too hard to find someone to do it for you, although it mightn't be too hard to do it yourself

Jabel

clint_silver wrote: »

Its carbon fibre road bike I have. Im out past ashbourne, come in old N2, finglas, glasnevin, town. Whatever about the glasnevin hill the N2 isnt the kindest road to cycle on.

you're gonna have to trust me on this, I tried for a better part of a year to commute on the bike. A full week commuting left me knackered at end of week. I did full weeks, 3 days, 2 days. That journey home was killing me though and with the kids, was eating into my time that I just dont have in the evening so no point in saying toughen up. I just dont have the time for the commute on the bike. Fastest I ever done it home was 70 minutes. If traffic is light I can do it in under 30 mins in the car.

I did part commute to phoenix park for a while. That actually works ok as in I can do the whole journey in under 45 mins by the time I park up and get bike out and can add a few mile to journey in the park if I was feeling energetic in the summer evnings, but now I want to get rid of the car altogether as we have a family car at home anyway.

I could get a moped but Id lose any fitness element at all then. The ebike seems the best fit, but only the faster one.

Hey Clint
For what it's worth I asked a similar question to yours a couple of years ago and my distance was only 16km each way. I had convinced myself that at 43/44 I couldn't commute the full 5 days a week due to tiredness and other commitments in the evening. I tried driving half way and cycling the rest but found that I was spending more time loading and unloading the car than saving any time. I looked into an ebike solution and saw what I thought was a perfect solution a BH Emotion Neo Race ebike which looked like a 'regular' flat bar road bike and I tested it out on a ebike challenge the shop (Greenaer) ran from town up to Howth Head. I wont kid you, it was great fun and I had a smile on my face the whole way. Now for the reality - the cost, the bike was around €2399 (speed limited to 25kph) and there was no way I could afford that sort of money, plus I think the battery had to be replaced after so many charges so that could be another €500 or so though admittedly it would probably last 5 years. With rising fuel & toll costs having an effect I was left with only one choice, cycle more, try to build up my fitness, lose some weight and try to find a balance in home life that would allow me to stick to that. So, aided by a terrific Summer 2013, I went from 3 days a week to 4 days and eventually 5 days. The losing of about a stone in weight spurred me on and the cycle became easier (or as they say around here, I became faster). It was a simple equation really - the more I cycled the easier it was. Fast forward to November and I convinced Mrs J that my newly formed svelte shape could only be maintained by the purchase of a new 'proper' road bike and with the help of some tight fitting lycra and clip in shoes I haven't looked back. I began to leave earlier in the morning sometimes doubling my commute and going out for weekend spins to test myself further, eventually graduating from novice to whatever the next step up from novice is upon my first Sally Gap spin (unthinkable a year earlier). What I'm trying to say is while you may find an ebike a solution now, with a bit of dedication and perseverance you can get yourself to a level where you won't be too far off your target time and the extra health benefits are overwhelmingly cost effective.
Best of luck with whatever you decide.
J

clint_silver

ok then, for those that know the route, on a decent road bike what would you say is a do-able time to o'connell bridge from ashbourne? its about 22km. Ive another couple of k to do but thats something measurable. If someone can convince me its do-able in under an hour I may give it another go until end of summer. I can do it in but cant get near under 70 minutes on the way out.

I was in that greenaer shop 2 weeks ago and looked at that very bike. the nitro was what I was interested in as its does 45kmpg, its 3.5 grand though.

Alek

I don't know your route, but I know mine. 10km from Harold's Cross to Santry, heavy city centre traffic, was taking me 45 minutes initially. This was 18 months ago and I was 95kg. After 6 months I was already 85kg and the commute 30min.

For the last couple of months its 25min / 82kg, 27-28kph rolling average speed, and I don't see it getting better. Its good as it is.

Without so many lights and traffic, if you are moderately fit, I think you can make the 22k under an hour - but not much. Within time, it'll get better. I am a living proof of this

Lumen

clint_silver wrote: »

ok then, for those that know the route, on a decent road bike what would you say is a do-able time to o'connell bridge from ashbourne? its about 22km. Ive another couple of k to do but thats something measurable. If someone can convince me its do-able in under an hour I may give it another go until end of summer.

clint_silver

doing the maths..

4 is the earliest I can leave the job and 2 days a week I have something on at 5 with the kids. which means I gotta be home for 4:45 latest which means Id have to take the car that day as Id never make it on the bike.

I'm paying 4.5-5 grand a year for the car between tax/insurance/petrol/maintenance that I wanted to get rid of.

Id so like to do it but Im just not seeing it.

I actually didnt mind the part commute when I was doing it, park at the top of phoenix park, 7-8k in the morning to work, felt great, journey always under 45 mins door to door. But the cost of keeping the car just for that is too much.

Mynydd2

Reluctantly i got myself an ebike - couldn't afford the late collection fees from the creche anymore.
Best thing ever, it significantly reduced my travel time. Charging it once or twice every 2 weeks, cost of 0.11ct per charge approx. The initial outlay was high, but no regrets.
Mine is 25kph max, but it does come in a speed version which goes 40kph.

clint_silver

What's the bike? I'm not worried about cost. Initial outlay will be offset by sale of car. Even if if had to get a new battery once a year at 500, which I'm not expecting, that's still10% of what my current motoring costs are.

njburke

OP.
Looked at some ebikes at the ring of kerry from cycle.ie and spoke to the rep.
There was one in particular which was effectively and electric motorbike, its power drive only, you spin the pedals as a control input only (accellerator input) its upper speed limit is 45 KPH, and has a 500 Watt motor (approx 1 Lance Armstrong). Range was beyond 50 -80 K depending on battery configuration.
My understanding is the upper speed limit is implemented via the control system software of the motor control, necessary to maintain safety on downhill descents etc.
The unit he had was pre-production, production units are in build.

You're right to do the math, it really comes down to commuting costs, purchase price is currently quite high on that particular e-bike, we're talking way above the price of a new petrol scooter, even a vintage honda 50.
A honda 50 is a good comparison though in terms of utility.
Is negotiating through traffic / cycle lane part of the appeal to you ?

Alek/Jabel, similar story to yourselves, the more I commute by bike the faster I get, the slimmer I get, I also have this two tone skin colour thing going on at biceps and lower thighs.

Thargor

What about a little Honda 50 equivalent or something until ebikes improve? Just in the OPs situation...

clint_silver

njburke wrote: »

OP.
Looked at some ebikes at the ring of kerry from cycle.ie and spoke to the rep.
There was one in particular which was effectively and electric motorbike, its power drive only, you spin the pedals as a control input only (accellerator input) its upper speed limit is 45 KPH, and has a 500 Watt motor (approx 1 Lance Armstrong). Range was beyond 50 -80 K depending on battery configuration.
My understanding is the upper speed limit is implemented via the control system software of the motor control, necessary to maintain safety on downhill descents etc.
The unit he had was pre-production, production units are in build.

You're right to do the math, it really comes down to commuting costs, purchase price is currently quite high on that particular e-bike, we're talking way above the price of a new petrol scooter, even a vintage honda 50.
A honda 50 is a good comparison though in terms of utility.
Is negotiating through traffic / cycle lane part of the appeal to you ?

Alek/Jabel, similar story to yourselves, the more I commute by bike the faster I get, the slimmer I get, I also have this two tone skin colour thing going on at biceps and lower thighs.

Theres not much traffic on that route coming in or rather theres either open road or bus lanes most of the way so not bothered by that, Im a bike user for 25 years so very comfortable in traffic anyway.
I considered a moped but wanted some physical element to it as I get very little as it is.
I dont mind the bike journey itself or going for a spin at weekends. But with work and family circumstances its just too long timewise and continuous 4-5 days pushing a 45-50km round trip takes its toll on the body leaving me far more tired than Im comfortable with at end of week. For those who'd argue this, I tried this for a several months. It just doesnt work for me.

The eBike seems a perfect solution.
Im not worried about the cost outlay.
So its just about finding the right formula to proceed with, I cant convert the road bike I have (confirmed by 2 providors linked earlier) so I either buy new bike or get SH bike to convert.

the.red.baron

clint_silver wrote: »

Its carbon fibre road bike I have. Im out past ashbourne, come in old N2, finglas, glasnevin, town. Whatever about the glasnevin hill the N2 isnt the kindest road to cycle on.

you're gonna have to trust me on this, I tried for a better part of a year to commute on the bike. A full week commuting left me knackered at end of week. I did full weeks, 3 days, 2 days. That journey home was killing me though and with the kids, was eating into my time that I just dont have in the evening so no point in saying toughen up. I just dont have the time for the commute on the bike. Fastest I ever done it home was 70 minutes. If traffic is light I can do it in under 30 mins in the car.

I did part commute to phoenix park for a while. That actually works ok as in I can do the whole journey in under 45 mins by the time I park up and get bike out and can add a few mile to journey in the park if I was feeling energetic in the summer evnings, but now I want to get rid of the car altogether as we have a family car at home anyway.

I could get a moped but Id lose any fitness element at all then. The ebike seems the best fit, but only the faster one.

Sure get a moped and still cycle monday wednesday friday or monday friday.

Just because you have it doesn't mean you need to use it every day.

Depending on age, if you have the M Licence category I'd deffo go that route. If you don't then you'd need to do about 900 quid of a course before you can ride for the first time. You could pick up a scooter for 500. All in cheaper than an electric bike. Most will do well over 100 mpg.

Low tax, insurance would be expensive but would drop and so much faster for getting through traffic than the car.

njburke

OP, from your last post, I think we can summarise that you like cycling but need to cover more distance within the alotted time. Given that I'ld think you're on the right track with the assisted e-bike, i.e your quads plus the e-bikes motor produce the equivalent of 1 Lance Armstrong. Lance apparently could produce 7 watts per kilo body weight at his peak. My own commute is 15K each way, some days I have the time to extend that, on the odd sunny morning I take a 'shortcut' that gets me in about three hours. Thats at least an hour a day of good excercise, instead of 40 mins sitting in a car.

Those guys also had two other cheaper model which did not have license constraints, one of those sounds like it would fit the bill. You might consider two battery packs, leave one to charge at either end of the commute.
If it was me I'ld get best quality motor and controller I could buy, possibly not the cheapest on ebay, other than that you have the mechanical simplicity of a bicycle.

BTW, I did the ROK on Saturday at the back of the group, there were plenty of folks taking the sweeper vans up Molls gap and freewheeling down the otherside.

preytec

nice post clint, any updates on what you did next? i'm looking into getting one too. but i think i'll just get the kit for just under E700
"48v 1000w brushless hub motor ebike conversion kit + 48v 20ah li-polymer battery"
there's no way i'd spend almost 1500 pounds on that bike you posted. plus with the extra weight the rear suspension and the li-ion has, when you do have to pedal up a hill, it'll be a nightmare. i know the poly battery won't last as long and i could replace the dead cells in the li-ion, but to get me started i like the package plus an upgrade to a LIFEPO4 battery would cost less than E400 next year.

there's a nice vid on youtube off a english guy with a converted bike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZxHjcXQNPc
250w 500w, they have no real power, 1000w plus is what you'd want