Web Developer was paid but will not deliver

Daphne2

Hello.

Hope someone can advise - really at loss as to what to do.

We have paid our web developer for a site which is essentially a template which he has developed for several B to C clients. It looks good and is functional for the customer. The back end admin is clunky but okay.

The problem is we have paid for features that were to be standard for all clients for BtoB functionality. None of this exists. It doesn't look like it will ever exist. We paid for that as per their spec. They admit they are at least 12 months behind on development .Now they fail to answer calls.

Any advice at all?

Many Thanks
D

Digital Society

Are you saying you paid in full before completion? Probably best not to do that to avoid situations like this. Also 12 months behind is madness. How a job like this using templates can even take half that is shocking.

For now be patient and ask them for a proper explanation. Ask them for the actual technical reasons why its taking so long then relay those reasons onto us and we can explain them and see if they are realistic. If you feel they are definitely avoiding you and you feel your being scammed id say legal action is all you can do.

Personally id show up on their doorstep every few days until they pull the finger out and get the job done but im not sure how you feel about that. If they have Facebook etc.. id bombard them with questions until i felt satisfied.

Daphne2

Many thanks for the reply - am new to the job here and was thrown the ball - it is clear no work was carried out on behalf of my employer who did pay in full. (Quite a lot) I have been on the door - all sounds rosy when I am there until I get no progress at all thereafter.

They are clearly under resourced and over committed.

Yes 12 months behind, talking about adding the functionality but... nothing. All I want right now is a timing plan so that we can consider our options. Cannot launch site on what we have.

has anyone taken the legal route before on something like this? Unfortunately I see no other option right now, am disappointed to say the least.

Thanks again

D

Digital Society

Was there no requirements spec made up or some list of required functionality? Is there any kind of contract or receipt involved that states exactly what your paying for?

Daphne2

There was indeed a spec. Many items not delivered.

Digital Society

So theres no even a question to be had on it really. They cant argue with anything.

Is there much left to do? If someone else took it over to complete it, would it be much of a cost?

Tow

Looking for a new 'web developer' may well be the cheapest option.

I have seen 'web developers' both individuals and companies who are really no more than what I would call graphic design artists. They can build a flash looking website, but are way over their heads when it comes to any sort of custom functionally or backend data processing.

I have also see court cases taken against companies for not providing 'working software'. The last one was only a few months ago and while looking like a open and close case it was lost. You are looking at 6 figure costs to take a case to the high courts.

ChippingSodbury

Daphne2 wrote: »

There was indeed a spec. Many items not delivered.

It's important to have a good spec together before the job starts and it sounds like you already have this. The legal route probably won't solve your problem which is to launch your webiste now or very soon as the process could take ages. If I was in your shoes I'd be going down the route, as previously mentioned, of annoying the hell out of them by turning up on their doorstep every day until you either get them to finish the job as per the spec or give you a full refund.

amen

On the biggest factors in determining what to so is how much money are we talking about here ?

If its less then €1,000 I'd say let it go.

If its more than €5,000 I'd pursue.

If its in between €1,000 and €5,000 thats more of a personal choice.

In future tie payments to deliverables with the last 30% only paid 30 days after the site have gone live.

Do you have the source code ?

Daphne2

Righteo - I guess you guys are articulating what I suspected was the course of action. Contacting new developer today with request for quote on spec.

Will continue to apply pressure on current developer - or non developer as the case may be. Legal action is still a possibility.

Thanks for the advice.

Daphne2

Good advice Amen

More than 5K by a factor

There is no way i would have paid the guy but ...... I guess things dragged and somehow he got paid.

Daphne2

No source code

bmm

Seems mind boggling any company would pay in full for a website that is missing a large part of its functionality.

Does the current developer have a different view on what is outstanding?

Daphne2

He seems to know what is to be done - even got a mail after one meeting detailing the most important items but just no time line - that could all happen ... it might but it might not ... next month, next year? As i say, they are 12 months behind as it is.

yop

Sounds crazy to have paid up front, usually done based on deliverables so who ever agreed to pay up front has learnt a tough lesson.
I'd pursue but its going to take a while, so depending on the urgency get in another developer to finish the work.

visual

Always two sides to every story and unless the contracted deliverables haven't been clearly delivered then there is no way forward.

Also have you considered support once you go live.

No point launching new web site for it to crash a few weeks later and without support will be unusable and will have to be turned off.


This all sounds like a project that started without a project manager and there is no road map to bring this from conception to live system with support.

I would hazzard a guess that there is little to no testing and acceptance by the business.

The simplest solution would be engage a project manager to drive your business requirements forward.

Failing that do a risk assessment of this project with your team and consider all the possibilities includung replacing the software company and starting from scratch.

Personally I wouldn't want to go live with a system with so many defects without support being in place. Your dealings to date with this company would not inspire confidence that they could supply timely support if any issue or defect arouse.

Daphne2

Point taken Visual - thanks - am risk assessing and managing

Digital Society

Do you mind telling us what needs to be completed so we have some kind of idea how it could be dragged out for 12 months. Not looking for personal info but just an idea on how big a job it is and if maybe they are lying to you in some way.

Maybe we can even advise you on how much it would be to sort the mess out.

I couldnt even begin to imagine what this "Web Developer" actually says to make everything sound OK when confronted. He must be a master of BS to drag it out this long and get payment up front as well.

Daphne2

Hi

There is a lot. I can forego some functionality but the really important stuff would only take a few days. Its his lack of responsibility, then acceptance and now lack of action that is the killer. Everything seems to be a big deal to this guy - that worries me -and yes he is master of BS ...... ;} pretty sure this is all going to get sorted out.... since today got a plan B in relation to a new developer and will decide in one week what way to go on that. Most people are really decent but we were unlucky with this one guy. No-one has died I guess ........ ;} I have been in a lot worse scrapes than this... no worries.



Thanks again

zig

I would at the very least threaten legal action at this stage.

I worked for a company who treated customers like this and from what I noticed legal threats seemed to shake the boss up enough to get the outstanding work done. It wasnt done intentionally, it happened as a result of terrible organization.

I would hazard a guess that the developer cant find the time, simply because paying work is getting in the way.

You've been punished for putting your faith in a company by paying up front. Sad really that thats the way it works, but from my experience in the web dev world, its like the wild west and both sides need to have everything ironed out before any money changes hands.

gctest50

Daphne2 wrote: »

Good advice Amen

More than 5K by a factor

There is no way i would have paid the guy but ...... I guess things dragged and somehow he got paid.

You're not the first and won't be the last
- see if you can get the money back
- when it goes live you'll need help when you need it
- it may be a big pile of chaos at this stage and has hit the limits ?

Daphne2 wrote: »

No source code

Avantech

Hi Daphne2

If he has been fully paid and you are going with a new developer can you get your hands on everything they have done for you so far. It is your property after all.
If you are login for additional quotes you can send me a message and we can have a chat.

Regards,
Brian

ChRoMe

Is this a offshore contractor? That plays a big part in how to approach the problem.

Daphne2

Not offshore - he owns the IP but .... as there is nothing... we will be discussing that.

So anyone else thinking of starting a site ... take heed ... lessons learned the hard way and really there is no need. Some really good developers out there who are fair. Get spec down, agree, pay in stages, discuss IP rights to site. Sign off.

The Corinthian

Sounds like whoever commissioned the work on your side didn't do any due diligence on the supplier, the requirements, went with the flow and probably accepted any deliveries that were made without checking them.

Your supplier has failed to deliver. They are in breach of their obligations.

I would write an internal report on this, explain what mistakes were made (without naming names) and recommend that you recoup the money through legal means if delivery is not made and accepted within three months, and that the work should be carried out again by another developer who should be paid in stages.

Then wash your hands of it, because it'll likely get buried by the superior who's responsible for this clusterfsck in the first place. But at least it won't be your problem any more.

jmcc

And one important point about potential legal action - find out of there was a signed paper contract. As The Corinthian said above, it does sound like a "we need a website" selection process rather than a carefully checked and reasoned "we need a website that does this, this and this and need it by a specific date" process. A CYA report is essential.

Regards...jmcc

amen

Avantech wrote: »

Hi Daphne2

It is your property after all.

That may not be true. Depending on the contact the developer may own the source and you have a license or you may own all of the images/text etc but you have a license to use wordpress.

When you purchase MS Word you don't get the source code.

The contract is important.