Recommend someone remove lock nuts on wheel, D14

RobAMerc

Hi all,

Due to a BMW design flaw ( in my opinion ) I am going to need to get the lock nuts drilled out ( or some other method ) and removed from my car as someone put them back on following a tyre change using an air drill. They cannot now be taken off without destroying the socket.

The stealer ruined 3 sockets as well as my own trying to remove them this morning.

This in my opinion is a flaw in the design as the socket is a joke and in no way fit for purpose, but that's another story.

Anyone able to recommend me someone to do it in the D14 area ?

thanks

Stainless_Steel

Someone put them on with an air gun and you are blaming the wheel bolts?

Did the dealer try undo them with an impact gun or breaker bar?

cadaliac

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

Someone put them on with an air gun and you are blaming the wheel bolts?

Did the dealer try undo them with an impact gun or breaker bar?

He's right, its a flaw. Other cars don't suffer as much with lock nuts as some BMWs.
Nissan 4x4 is another culprit.
Agreed that people shouldn't use air guns with lock nuts however.

Edit: Sorry OP - I don't know anyone in Dublin that would be able to help.

Stainless_Steel

cadaliac wrote: »

He's right, its a flaw. Other cars don't suffer as much with lock nuts as some BMWs.
Nissan 4x4 is another culprit.
Agreed that people shouldn't use air guns with lock nuts however.

Edit: Sorry OP - I don't know anyone in Dublin that would be able to help.

Interesting. Any explanation of the flaw? If I torque nut to spec does the issue ever occur?

RobAMerc

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

Someone put them on with an air gun and you are blaming the wheel bolts?

Did the dealer try undo them with an impact gun or breaker bar?

Well I have had numerous cars with lock nuts before and using an air drill to put them on hasn't caused an issue.
If you look at the design there is a small shape inside the socket ( male ) that marry's to a similar shape in the head of the bolt ( female ) with a perfectly round outside on the bolt. This male shape cannot withstand very much pressure as is evident that the mechanic in BMW sheered 3 of them with only a tyre iron.

Yes, the lad who put them on fooked up, but its a poor design imo.

pablo128

Bring them back to the guy who put them on. I have worked in tyre centres and it is unacceptable to tighten wheel nuts and especially lock nuts using an air gun. If he can't get them off, he can pay for their removal.

dougie-lampkin

Can you not beat a smaller 12-point socket on? i.e., if it's a 17mm round diameter, hammer on a 16mm socket. A proper impact socket, not a chrome plated China special yoke that will split in half. A decent impact socket will have no problem cutting 12 points into the bolt, if you have a hammer big enough.

If you can't a socket on, it's going to get expensive. Most removal tools like easy-outs won't be able to loosen it if it's been air gunned on. Your other option is to get someone to weld a nut onto the locknut, that will let you remove it as normal.

I've also heard of a bodge method - remove the 4 other bolts and start driving slowly in a car park. After a short time you'll find the locking bolt has come loose, and can then be spun off. I'm not sure how advisable this way is.

Stainless_Steel

RobAMerc wrote: »

Well I have had numerous cars with lock nuts before and using an air drill to put them on hasn't caused an issue.
If you look at the design there is a small shape inside the socket ( male ) that marry's to a similar shape in the head of the bolt ( female ) with a perfectly round outside on the bolt. This male shape cannot withstand very much pressure as is evident that the mechanic in BMW sheered 3 of them with only a tyre iron.

Yes, the lad who put them on fooked up, but its a poor design imo.

Ah right that makes more sense.

As suggested above I would go for beating a proper socket over it. You might need a sledge.

RobAMerc

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

Can you not beat a smaller 12-point socket on? i.e., if it's a 17mm round diameter, hammer on a 16mm socket. A proper impact socket, not a chrome plated China special yoke that will split in half. A decent impact socket will have no problem cutting 12 points into the bolt, if you have a hammer big enough.

Tried this, socket got stuck on but wouldn't grip the bolt, after much trouser spoiling I was able to clamp a wrench onto the socket through the hole and ease it off using a crowbar through the wrench ( I dont know if this makes any sense ) to lever it off the bolt. I didnt get away scott free as I did a bit of damage to the wheel.

As the bolt heads are fairly deep in the wheel I am not sure how youd weld something to the them ?

I am told a good quality "Bolt Extractor" is the only job, not sure where to find or how to use one, I was hoping someone on here knows someone who has done this before and can recommend someone.

Stainless_Steel

I'd be fuming at the tyre place that caused this. Really annoying.

A bolt extractor is like a drill bit that you screw in anti-clockwise. It cuts into the bolt, grips it, and tries to spin it out.

You'll need a fairly big one for your wheel bolt. So big that I don't think it would fit in a standard DIY drill chuck.

Sorry can't help you with a recommendation of someone.

RFOLEY1990

a little zap with an air gun shouldn't do any harm, whoever done it must have hooer'd it on

dougie-lampkin

If the socket was spinning, go down a size. It will need a fair amount of effort to get the socket on, if you didn't have to pound it with a sledge it probably wasn't tight enough :pac:

Anyone with an arc welder would have no problem welding a nut on, even if it was 100 mm into the wheel. The stick on an arc welder comes out a good 150 mm. Even a handy MIG'er should be able to do it. I can't see a bolt extractor working with something that tight. The drill will need at least as much torque as the air gun just to be able to loosen the bolt. Any household drill will not be up to it, even if the extractor was. There's a reason tyre shops use impact guns rather than electric drills. A 1/2" rattle gun can easily see 800 ft/lb. Even a "high torque" Makita 240v hand drill will only put out 40 ft/lb.

I still feel that using increasingly smaller sockets (don't forget imperial sockets usually end up being in between two metric sizes) is your best hope. It's the least destructive method. A slide hammer will remove a socket after it's been hammered on.

RobAMerc

A bolt extractor is like a socket that has some magic in it that will allow it to grip the head of even the most rounded bolt ( supposedly ). That then can be used with the tyre iron to get the bolt loose.

I actually dont think the driving around with only one bolt in is that bad an idea except it would need to get the bolt hand tight and you'd have probably ruined the wheel by then !

Nekarsulm

Spent 3 hours on Monday taking a lock bolt out of my Passat wheel/hub. It had an internally splined bolt, which is smooth on the outside. Drive in a bolt a fraction bigger than the splined hole, then welded with the arc welder. Let it cool, and went at it with a 24mm half inch socket. the bolt I welded on wrung half an inch from the lock bolt head. Welded another on onto the stub of the first, giving it lots of weld depth. Let it cool, and went with a half inch air gun. this time the head wrung off the bolt I had welded on. As I now had a bit of length to work with, drove a 28mm nut onto the stub protruding, welded it inside and out, let it cool and tried with the air gun again. again the nut wrung off the bolt stub. So went to town and got a good 7mm HSS drill bit. Drilled as straight as I could, and kept checking the depth till I was about 10mm into the lock bolts threads. Switched to a 13 mm HSS and managed to wring an inch off it. Cut the broken bit off straight with the grinder and tried to put a point back onto it with a grinding stone. wasn't great, but one side was cutting pretty good. drilled down again till I was past the shoulder of the lock bolt. Still tight as could be, not a fraction of a give in it. At this stage got the oxy-acetylene , and blew out the assorted welded on bits, and the head of the lock bolt. Wheel fell off easily. when all had cooled, the threaded portion of the lock bolt screwed out of the hub easily. Lacquer finish burned around that stud hole, but relieved to get it off.

I would never use a bolt extractor, they are made of seriously hard steel, and if you break one of those in a drilled stud, you are in real trouble. No drill will touch them.

listermint

Air Guns are not meant to lash Bolts on to Tyres like that. There is torque tolerances on them.

Whatever way you tried to take them off then after the fact has damage them.

Design flaw it is not.

Its not brand specific and this was lazyness by the tyre installer.