Summons for no trailer license

nimnom

Hi, I'm not looking for advice, just wondering how my case will most likely work out.
I got stopped at a garda checkpoint while I was towing my jeep and trailer. The garda said I was driving without insurance as I didnt have a category BE license needed in order to tow the trailer and that I'll recieve a summons.

When I got home my friend said I could legally tow the trailer as the combined weight was under 3.5 tonne ( the trailer was empty at the time and the jeep is a short wheel base jeep), so I could legally drive with just a normal car license. I double checked that on the rsa website and it seems to be true.

If this goes to court how will it fair out? I'm not familiar with the court system. Thanks

whomitconcerns

well according to rsa if your car, the trailer and the load on the trailer are less than 3.5tonnes you should be ok. Did the guards weigh you?

nimnom

Hi, no the Garda did not weigh the vehicle, just stated that I didn't have the required license category to tow the trailer.

Odelay

What weight is on the plate for the trailer? Loaded or not this is where they can catch you out.

philip_lamb

nimnom wrote: »

Hi, I'm not looking for advice, just wondering how my case will most likely work out.
I got stopped at a garda checkpoint while I was towing my jeep and trailer. The garda said I was driving without insurance as I didnt have a category BE license needed in order to tow the trailer and that I'll recieve a summons.

When I got home my friend said I could legally tow the trailer as the combined weight was under 3.5 tonne ( the trailer was empty at the time and the jeep is a short wheel base jeep), so I could legally drive with just a normal car license. I double checked that on the rsa website and it seems to be true.

If this goes to court how will it fair out? I'm not familiar with the court system. Thanks

explain the situation to the judge , he or she will toss it in the bin , lots of summonses result in nothing , guards still take a shot however as its good for their career

which region of the country are you in , some judges are more reasonable than others and will actually not approach the summons with the intention of throwing the book at you

magentis

Its the plated weight of the trailer,what you had in it when stopped makes no odds.

philip_lamb

magentis wrote: »

Its the plated weight of the trailer,what you had in it when stopped makes no odds.

of course it does , if he had six tonne of rocks in it , it would be a stonewall offense

carpejugulum

philip_lamb wrote: »

lots of summonses result in nothing

your source?

philip_lamb

carpejugulum wrote: »

your source?

personal experience having sat in court on many occasions , a summons is not a guarentee of a conviction

the guard was talking nonesense when he claimed the vechile wasnt insured by virtue of the fact that a particular licence wasnt held , its not like the drive was piloting an artic lorry with a car licence

its a grey area and one which a reasonable judge will take a nuanced view

blindside88

nimnom wrote: »

Hi, I'm not looking for advice, just wondering how my case will most likely work out.
I got stopped at a garda checkpoint while I was towing my jeep and trailer. The garda said I was driving without insurance as I didnt have a category BE license needed in order to tow the trailer and that I'll recieve a summons.

When I got home my friend said I could legally tow the trailer as the combined weight was under 3.5 tonne ( the trailer was empty at the time and the jeep is a short wheel base jeep), so I could legally drive with just a normal car license. I double checked that on the rsa website and it seems to be true.

If this goes to court how will it fair out? I'm not familiar with the court system. Thanks

He is correct if its a single axle trailer. If its a twin axel it requires a BE licence regardless of weight. Is it a single axel trailer?

leeroybrown

blindside88 wrote: »

He is correct if its a single axle trailer. If its a twin axel it requires a BE licence regardless of weight. Is it a single axel trailer?

Can you or someone else link the relevant legislation that states that a BE license is required for a twin axel trailer. My understanding is that it's based on maximum weight only and not on axle count. Obviously the load capacity of a twin axle trailer is highly likely to put someone without a trailer license over the allowed maximum weight but it still doesn't make it illegal to tow one within the limit.

Mycroft H

blindside88 wrote: »

He is correct if its a single axle trailer. If its a twin axel it requires a BE licence regardless of weight. Is it a single axel trailer?

No no no no no and no again. Less of this axles rubbish. Axles do not come into it. They only come into play with lorries of 18t and greater. I don't know where this rumor came from.

nimnom

Not 100% certain of the trailer weights atm but i think think the unladen weight is around 800kg, max gross is 2.6tn. Is there another weight i should look for? The trailer was a twin axle ifor Williams so I may be caught there. I also live in Laois. Thanks for help.

leeroybrown

Mycroft H wrote: »

No no no no no and no again. Less of this axles rubbish. Axles do not come into it. They only come into play with lorries of 18t and greater. I don't know where this rumor came from.

The other classic Irish trailer rumour is that legally you need a 4WD to tow a twin axle trailer. Unfortunately even some of our Gardaí seem believe and spread these.

blindside88

leeroybrown wrote: »

Can you or someone else link the relevant legislation that states that a BE license is required for a twin axel trailer. My understanding is that it's based on maximum weight only and not on axle count. Obviously the load capacity of a twin axle trailer is highly likely to put someone without a trailer license over the allowed maximum weight but it still doesn't make it illegal to tow one within the limit.

It's not legislation but its where I seem it originally.

http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/2012/10/09/motorists-must-know-the-regulations-when-towing-a-trailer/

magentis

nimnom wrote: »

Not 100% certain of the trailer weights atm but i think think the unladen weight is around 800kg, max gross is 2.6tn. Is there another weight i should look for? The trailer was a twin axle ifor Williams so I may be caught there. I also live in Laois. Thanks for help.

I think you need the b+e in your situation.

leeroybrown

nimnom wrote: »

Not 100% certain of the trailer weights atm but i think think the unladen weight is around 800kg, max gross is 2.6tn. Is there another weight i should look for? The trailer was a twin axle ifor Williams so I may be caught there. I also live in Laois. Thanks for help.

Unfortunately, once you combine the unladen weight of a short wheelbase 4WD vehicle and a trailer with maximum allowed weight of 2600Kg you'll be well over the 3500Kg limit. It's the maximum allowed weights not the laden weight at the time.

EDIT: Updated to specifically reference unladen weight.

leeroybrown

blindside88 wrote: »

It's not legislation but its where I seem it originally.

http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/2012/10/09/motorists-must-know-the-regulations-when-towing-a-trailer/

The article specifically states that the reason you can't tow them is the maximum allowed weight but it's missing one fact. A light vehicle can tow a twin axle trailer rated for over 750Kg so long as the total maximum weight is still under 3500Kg. There are some circumstances where this is possible but not in the OP's case unfortunately.

magentis

philip_lamb wrote: »

of course it does , if he had six tonne of rocks in it , it would be a stonewall offense

The trailer DGVW is what matters not the load.

blindside88

leeroybrown wrote: »

The article specifically states that the reason you can't tow them is the maximum allowed weight but it's missing one fact. A light vehicle can tow a twin axle trailer rated for over 750Kg so long as the total maximum weight is still under 3500Kg. There are some circumstances where this is possible but not in the OP's case unfortunately.

I'm wrong on the axel point, just had a look on the rsa site

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Third%20Directive/Link%208.pdf

Peppa Pig

From Citizens Information

B Vehicles with seats for a maximum of 8 passengers and a maximum weight of 3,500kg (can tow a trailer where the maximum weight of the trailer when fully loaded is 750kg or less)

Types of driving licences

I read that as a normal car licence can only be used to tow a trailer that is rated for a max of 750kg.

nimnom

leeroybrown wrote: »

Unfortunately, once you combine the maximum allowed weight of a short wheelbase 4WD vehicle and a trailer with maximum allowed weight of 2600Kg you'll be well over the 3500Kg limit. It's the maximum allowed weights not the laden weight at the time.

Ok, I was hoping it was the laden weight as the jeep is only 2500kg. I'll see how I get on, hopefully the book won't be thrown at me . All the best

leeroybrown

Peppa Pig wrote: »

From Citizens Information


Types of driving licences

I read that as a normal car licence can only be used to tow a trailer that is rated for a max of 750kg.

The information there is incomplete for some reason. See my above post.

EDIT: Here's the RSA guidelines.

leeroybrown

nimnom wrote: »

Ok, I was hoping it was the laden weight as the jeep is only 2500kg. I'll see how I get on, hopefully the book won't be thrown at me . All the best

Best of luck with it. Towing licenses are something that have never really been properly explained or enforced for most motorists. I'm only familiar with them due to researching them for motorsport towing.

Peppa Pig

leeroybrown wrote: »

The information there is incomplete for some reason. See my above post.

Don't think it is

BE Vehicles in category B with a trailer of 3,500kg maximum weight

Edit to your edit
There is a conflict and it looks like the CI site is missing the "or combined weight" section

Mycroft H

Here is the legislation
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1999/en/si/0352.html


6. (1) A combination of vehicles which consists of a drawing vehicle and a trailer shall, for the purpose of these regulations, be regarded as a vehicle:—


(a) in category B where the drawing vehicle is in category B and the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the total design gross vehicle weight of the combination does not exceed 3,500 kg,


(b) in category B, C1, C, D1 or D where the drawing vehicle is in category B, C1, C, D1 or D, respectively, and the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750 kg,


Part A is what your looking for here.

The Design Gross Weight of the trailer cannot be heavier then the empty weight of the car/jeep, while the combination of those then cannot exceed 3.5t. If it does, you were unlicensed at the time.

(And look, nowt about axles and 4 wheel drives)


Edit for punctuation. I'm on the tablet, formatting ain't the best on the touch site.

leeroybrown

Unfortunatley for the OP even taking the unladen weight of the tow vehicle his 4WD and 2600Kg trailer will put him over.

No Pants

leeroybrown wrote: »

I'm only familiar with them due to researching them for motorsport towing.

Towing would be a hilarious motorsport. :pac: