Interesting article on the UFC

dave1982

Is there too much UFC?

Imagine if the NBA added 30 expansion teams over the next two years, and then sent out a favored reporter to lecture the public about how true fans should appreciate the diminished quality of play. This sounds impossibly stupid, and yet it's more or less what's happening in one increasingly dim corner of the sports world.

This Saturday, the UFC will run a card in Auckland, New Zealand, to be broadcast on their online subscription service. The main event will feature New Zealander James Te Huna, who's lost two straight, and Nate Marquardt, who's lost three straight; the rest of the card isn't much more inspiring.

Also this Saturday, the UFC will run a card in San Antonio, Texas, to be televised on Fox Sports 1. The main event will feature Jeremy Stephens, a featherweight with a 10-8 UFC record best known for once having been arrested the day before he had a scheduled bout, leading to thankfully failed negotiations in which promoter Dana White tried to convince the Hennepin County sheriff's office to let the guy out of jail just long enough for him to fight. The co-main event will feature Nicholas Musoke, a welterweight so obscure he doesn't even have a Wikipedia page.

Including these two, the UFC has 24 events scheduled for the rest of this year, five more than they ran in all of 2009. The ever-increasing number of cards—and, more than that, the consequent decline in their quality as good preliminary bouts become iffy undercard bouts and passable undercard bouts become lousy main events—has been a problem for long enough that a lot of serious fans are just dead tired of hearing about it. (In 2011, when the promotion ran a mere 27 shows, I asked White if he wasn't running too many; he said the only problem was that they weren't running more, and apparently he meant it.) It's so bad by now, though, that the usual word for it, oversaturation, doesn't quite cut it. This is something more like hypersaturation.

You can tell this is a live issue because Kevin Iole—a Yahoo Sports writer and a thoroughly reliable guide to what the UFC would like people to think—felt compelled to go in hard earlier this week with an article titled "Why the UFC's saturation strategy makes perfect sense." The UFC's His argument is basically that hardcore fight fans should stop bitching, because the awful cards aren't meant for them, but for people who don't actually watch fights.

The dirty little secret here is that the seeming overload of shows the UFC is staging here, there and everywhere was not designed for the hardcore fan base. ... [T]he seeming glut of shows the UFC is staging will serve its purpose if it persuades some who watch infrequently or not at all to become casual fans who may, every now and then, buy a pay-per-view.
This is a strange argument only because it makes absolutely no sense. The only people who could possibly have any interest in a fight card headlined by James Te Huna and Nate Marquardt are UFC ultras, degenerate gamblers, and maybe curious New Zealanders. The method by which watching bad fights will turn members of this last group into people willing to pay money to see fights goes unexplained, but it's hinted at when Iole describes the prevailing thinking within the UFC: "all that people need to become fans is exposure to the sport on a regular basis."

Calling this magical thinking would be doing it a bit too much credit. When the sport enjoyed a surge of general interest in the mid- to late aughts, it had to do with compelling athletes and compelling fights. People didn't become fans because of some accidental exposure to the sport, as such; they became fans because they were exposed to rivalries like Chuck Liddell vs. Randy Couture, or because they saw an incredible highlight reel of Anderson Silva knockouts online, or because they heard that pro wrestler Brock Lesnar was going to try his hand at a real fight.

For a lot of reasons—the aging of a generation of stars, the promotion's habit of running down its own fighters, and bad luck, among others—the UFC, even though it runs some great shows from time to time, doesn't have those kinds of broadly compelling athletes or fights on offer right now. What it does have is its #brand, and a Rovellian faith in it—a belief that you can't run too many shows, that fighting is destined to be the biggest sport in the world, and that if you can get people to watch a UFC card, any card, you'll make some new fans.

That may have been true five years ago, when the #brand stood for cards featuring fighters people cared about in main events that mattered, with quality fights on the undercard. When it increasingly comes to stand for main events featuring non-contenders on losing streaks, though, or regional-level competitors in meaningless scraps, not so much. And when even the big cards feature a lot of detritus and headliners no one has ever heard of, they start to actively run old fans off, rather than make new ones, as even a cursory look at the promotion's pay-per-view performance of late makes pretty clear. Which is, after all, the point of the complaints that the UFC Iole is dismissing. This isn't so much about whether a promotional strategy of running thin and bad fight cards makes any sense in the abstract as it is about fight fans complaining about feeling ripped off when they're asked to pay $60 for a card featuring maybe one good fight. You'd figure that Iole—a boxing writer, once upon a time—would know all about that.

Iole would surely counter that even if this is true, none of it matters: Running terrible cards featuring faceless, generic fighters is to the benefit of the marketing company that is the sport's leading promoter, so the tradeoff between good cards and boring ones is one "that most true fans would gladly make," and anyway no one's forcing anyone to watch. ("Consumers have choices when spending their entertainment dollars," as he puts it.)

This is a strange thing, in the way it asks fans to value the interests of the businessmen who own the UFC more than their own interests as spectators. It's even stranger than that in how utterly anachronistic it is.,.

One of the minor pleasures of being a fight fan is seeing the UFC reenact the development of any major sport as if captured by time-lapse photography. It's born; it struggles; it captures public interest; and now, it reaches beyond its grasp. The actual sport, as such, has grown incredibly quickly, so that the best fights the UFC can now offer are as far beyond what they could promote a decade or so ago as an early '80s Celtics vs. Lakers game was beyond some slow and erratic early '60s NBA contest. The infrastructure around it—the promoters, the fawning press, and so on—has meanwhile grown in real time, slowly and painfully. It will all come together at some point. In the meantime, fans will talk about how they want to see good fights, and various people with stakes in the game will tell them to pipe down and pay up, and it will all continue to be too stupid to be true..

dave1982

I mentioned some thing about this maybe 6 months.That the UFC are flooding the market with MMA.Too much of anything people lose interest cards are very much watered down.I remember Dana a few years a go saying any of the fights on a UFC card could be a main event.I agreed with him then I don't anymore.

Its good for fighters they get more exposure.Would Conor be headlining a event 4-5 years ago?

Its nice to have a card to watch every weekend but its been a long time since I looked at card on paper and got excited for every fight on the card

riffmongous

Personally I think there are far too many events , especially the fight nights. However as I was reminded of yesterday a poor quality card does not necessarily equal a poor night of fights, and vice versa. The problem is of course why would anyone bother to watch some of these fights in the first place? There needs to be more to it than just the action itself, which you can find anywhere on any regional show or past fights. Events come and go so quickly now there is less focus and build up or so it seems to me anyway and less reason to care, I'd say I recognised the names of about 25% of the guys who fought yesterday, and how many of them will still be here in a few years from now?

scudzilla

I long for the days when there was a card every 3/4/5 weeks and it was pretty stacked, watching it the Sunday night on Bravo, i used to get really excited about a card, looking forward to it for weeks, now i can't remember the last time i got excited about a card.

There's some cards now where i've not even heard of 50% of the fighters

IanMc666

My only initial problem with the increasing amount of shows is more or less the fact that I can't keep up with the sheer amount of names. Like the previous post said, half of them I've never even heard of.

Having the memory of a goldfish doesn't help matters either but there's just too much to try and keep up with.

artengo

I'm watching ufc cards religiously for 6 years and have now lost interest in nearly all the fights before the main event.
The fighters are nobodies most of the time and most fights are really boring. The lower weights are crap. Nearly every fight under 155 goes to decision and both fights don't look like they've been in a fight. ( I know there are exception like aldo etc )

A lot of people here think it's a badge of honor to watch these no bodies, that it shows an understanding and appreciation of the sport. If you enjoy it, great, but the old days when fights had personality were so much better. Now it's just over technical and tactical. There are still exciting fights but only 1 in every 15 or so. 2 of the fights on last night aukland card were good in my my opinion. The heavyweight rosholt was brilliant and the main event was good. The Texas card was awful. I like Swanson but what a boring main event.

Davei141

artengo wrote: »

I'm watching ufc cards religiously for 6 years and have now lost interest in nearly all the fights before the main event.
The fighters are nobodies most of the time and most fights are really boring. The lower weights are crap. Nearly every fight under 155 goes to decision and both fights don't look like they've been in a fight. ( I know there are exception like aldo etc )

A lot of people here think it's a badge of honor to watch these no bodies, that it shows an understanding and appreciation of the sport. If you enjoy it, great, but the old days when fights had personality were so much better. Now it's just over technical and tactical. There are still exciting fights but only 1 in every 15 or so. 2 of the fights on last night aukland card were good in my my opinion. The heavyweight rosholt was brilliant and the main event was good. The Texas card was awful. I like Swanson but what a boring main event.

I agree there are way too many events but the parts in bold...what the hell? The smaller weight classes don't have gas merchants who can't even go 3 rounds without slowing to a crawl. The 125/135/145 divisions have the most technical and highly skilled fighters. Rosholt - Palelai was an embarrassing fight with Soa gassing after 3 minutes. Both of them have rubbish skills technically, well Rosholt has good wrestling but that is it.

I would gladly ban heavyweight fights from being on a main card (Top 5 aside). Nothing worse than an exciting cards momentum being killed stone dead by 2 lads who are only in the UFC because they are 220+ pounds.

artengo

I think the problem with the ufc as a spectacle is the technically gifted 145s and below bouncing around, in and out, doing no and taking no damage.

I know it's a cliche but I just love seeing two heavyweight slugging it out. Heavyweight is shallow in skill but by far my favourite to watch.

Re Rosholt, his wrestling was brilliant to watch. Very technical with some cool take downs. He used some trips that you don't see much of.
I know the palelei gassed but I don't think it was embarrassment. I would credit rosholt for beating him into exhaustion.

That_Guy

I love MMA and tbh I watch an awful lot of it. Haven't yet missed a UFC event this year but to be honest, because there's so many fights and sometimes two events on in the one day, it all feels like one big blur to me.

There's barely any time to process a fight before you're being thrown into another event.

Dtp1979

I miss the days when you'd look forward to seeing matt Hughes in August and then couldn't wait for the next event on New Year's Eve when chuck would headline

dave1982

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I miss the days when you'd look forward to seeing matt Hughes in August and then couldn't wait for the next event on New Year's Eve when chuck would headline

Haha those were the days!

calex71

The new Zealand card was ok but my god the us one was bloody awful.

How many shows are one between now and dublin? I used to be a big champion of WEC and how they never had a bad card/event even if you didnt know anyone on the card , I wish to hell zuffa had left the wec alone I know these guys deserved a bigger stage but i struggle to think of a fight in the UFC that matches anything that was in WEC since the merge

Davei141

calex71 wrote: »

The new Zealand card was ok but my god the us one was bloody awful.

How many shows are one between now and dublin? I used to be a big champion of WEC and how they never had a bad card/event even if you didnt know anyone on the card , I wish to hell zuffa had left the wec alone I know these guys deserved a bigger stage but i struggle to think of a fight in the UFC that matches anything that was in WEC since the merge

WEC and Strikeforce, that was a golden period of MMA. Hopefully Coker can whip bellator into shape.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Mr. CooL ICE

Nowadays, I rarely watch the fights in their entirety. I generally watch the first 2-3 mins to see how it goes and if nothing promising happens, I skip about 30 secs at a time until I see something interesting happen (KO, rear naked choke position) and then rewind and watch properly. I do this for most fights, except for ones in which a favourite fighter of mine is in.

Beforehand, I would set aside my whole Sunday morning/afternoon to watch everything; set prelims downloading -> eat breakfast -> watch prelims while main event downloads -> lunch -> main event -> visit this forum -> interact with world.

artengo

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'll re watch it so. Maybe I was just sick of mma by the time it came on.
I watched two **** cards full of fighters I didn't know. I'd lost my interest. I should have turned it off and watch on monday

unknown13

Gone the days of being excited for the cards and staying up all night watching some great fights. Now, I can't remember the time I actually watched a card. There is absolutely too much UFC and Bellator bosses know it with their very swift hiring of Coker after his gardening period ended.

I started watching and following MMA & Boxing in 2007 and for most part would always favour MMA over boxing. Now, I just watch boxing because I am loving what is happening on the UK scene. The two biggest all British fights have been made this year and the events are every couple of weeks and the standard of boxing undercards is becoming better and better.

gimmick

I find that if I am watching a sucky card (of which there are plenty lately), even when there is a main event, I am so drained from the boredom of the previous fights, I get no enjoyment out of it.

I think I would have enjoyed the Swanson Stephens fight had I watched it without watching the rest. But I had watched the rest and by the 4th round I just didn't care anymore.

Mellor

I remember around 2010-2011 when events slimed a little. From like 4-6 weeks apart to 2-3 weeks. And people complained it was too often, I thought nonsense. This is great. It's because such a great part if the Sunday session - timezomrs obviously made casual MMA viewing far easier.
But as events increased to almost weekly, and double sessions. I've been converted. Not I only consider PPVs to be real events, and the rest is filler. Unless I spy a potential gen.

DrPhilG

Sorry, but I just don't get the argument.

It's like telling your wife that you're getting fed up because you're having too much sex.

Of course you can say that it's all down to quality (talking about fighting again now btw) but that's not always the case.

There are and were poor fights and great fights even when we had less frequent but more stacked cards, and we have great fights and poor fights now on the multitude of Fight Nights.

Davei141

But the UFC used to be something special, something that we all got excited about. Are you telling me you still get as excited about watching a card? Be truthful now.

Mellor

Davei141 wrote: »

But the UFC used to be something special, something that we all got excited about. Are you telling me you still get as excited about watching a card? Be truthful now.

It depends what way you look at it.
There was bad fights back then too.
3 rounds of unfit guys drooling on each other. There was a higher percentage of "stacked cards". But I'd say modern tines with out via volume.

There will probably be more 5 star fights this year than say in 2009. The top 10 fights this year will beat any other years too 10.
It simply gets lots in the volume.

gimmick

I certainly get over a crap fight if there are fewer of them. Almost every card in the history of fighting has had a dud or 2 on it. There just seems to be more duds on each card nowadays.

Mellor wrote:

It simply gets lots in the volume.

Not sure how this is a good thing. People will get tired of having to scrape the shít away in order to find the diamond.

DrPhilG

Davei141 wrote: »

But the UFC used to be something special, something that we all got excited about. Are you telling me you still get as excited about watching a card? Be truthful now.

I'd say there were a few cards a year that I'd be buzzing about. That's probably still the same. Usually the 4th July card, New Year's and Superbowl weekend. I have the lads all coming over on Sunday afternoon for UFC 175.

Of course I don't get giddy about watching a Fight Night card from Singapore or somewhere, but I still watch it and I certainly wouldn't prefer that it wasn't on.

I think that fighters playing for points and eeking out dull decisions is a far bigger issue for the UFC than over saturation. Just not sure how they can combat that without venturing too much into influencing the way fights go which is a bad path to take, (see EliteXC and the Kimbo/Petruzelli scandal).

Davei141

Mellor wrote: »

It depends what way you look at it.
There was bad fights back then too.
3 rounds of unfit guys drooling on each other. There was a higher percentage of "stacked cards". But I'd say modern tines with out via volume.

There will probably be more 5 star fights this year than say in 2009. The top 10 fights this year will beat any other years too 10.
It simply gets lots in the volume.

But my point is due to the sheer volume even if the fights are more exciting or better technically/cardio wise I am being burnt out. I watch every event and pre lims and i am sleepwalking through a lot of the cards.

There are so many fighters on the roster who shouldn't be in the best MMA organisation in the world and it cheapens the brand IMO having cards full of fighters who wouldn't have a hope of gettin into the UFC a few years back.

Mellor

Davei141 wrote: »

There are so many fighters on the roster who shouldn't be in the best MMA organisation in the world and it cheapens the brand IMO having cards full of fighters who wouldn't have a hope of gettin into the UFC a few years back.

I agree with you about sleepwalking through endless cards but I can't agree with the above.

Sure there's a wide range from the top to the bottom of the roster, but it's a big roster. Overall the standard is miles higher than in the past.
Some if the guys even a short few years ago were really terrible.

As I type this I'm watching UFC unleashed. Struve v Herman
Just ended.
Herman basically got mounted, (not a particularly tight or high mount), and didn't have a clue how to get out of it. I'm not saying he couldn't get out, he didn't even attempt an escape.
Beginner BJJ stuff. I honestly be surprised if he even trained that position.

Davei141

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'd say there were a few cards a year that I'd be buzzing about. That's probably still the same. Usually the 4th July card, New Year's and Superbowl weekend. I have the lads all coming over on Sunday afternoon for UFC 175.

Of course I don't get giddy about watching a Fight Night card from Singapore or somewhere, but I still watch it and I certainly wouldn't prefer that it wasn't on.

I think that fighters playing for points and eeking out dull decisions is a far bigger issue for the UFC than over saturation. Just not sure how they can combat that without venturing too much into influencing the way fights go which is a bad path to take, (see EliteXC and the Kimbo/Petruzelli scandal).

Actually you are right. There is still those exciting cards i guess the endless other cards just dulls you a bit. Completely agree about the point fighters, that is why Welterweight seems to be my favourite weight class at the moment with guys like Robbie Lawler, Stun Gun and Matt Brown.

These guys go for the finish every single time regardless of the quality of opponent. I don't mind wrestlers doing what wrestlers do but it is when otherwise exciting fighters start "Playing the game" when they get to the top. In fairness it is pretty hard to finish skilled fighters but at least TRY.

Mellor wrote: »

I agree with you about sleepwalking through endless cards but I can't agree with the above.

Sure there's a wide range from the top to the bottom of the roster, but it's a big roster. Overall the standard is miles higher than in the past.
Some if the guys even a short few years ago were really terrible.

As I type this I'm watching UFC unleashed. Struve v Herman
Just ended.
Herman basically got mounted, (not a particularly tight or high mount), and didn't have a clue how to get out of it. I'm not saying he couldn't get out, he didn't even attempt an escape.
Beginner BJJ stuff. I honestly be surprised if he even trained that position.

You are right as fighters become more well rounded but if the overall quality of MMA fighters has gotten much better then surely the UFC should be even further ahead. I think TUF is a big problem you have so many average fighters getting signed up every year completely diluting the product (Cody McKenzie, Bubba McDaniel etc). Some of the striking on display is awful or their grappling is awful. I know they get trained up but most of them never reach more than obscure fight night prelim fodder.

You make a good point though maybe i am romanticizing about the quality, but i do firmly believe with so many fighters getting better/more people training the sport there should be a cull of the poorer fighters. The reason they are there is just to fill up these endless cards, they serve no other purpose. Although not everyone can be elite i know that, but you see such poor skills (Cardio and technique) in the 185+ weight classes that i wonder is this really the cream of the crop?

scudzilla

UFC is a bit like that favourite band ya liked, you used to see them in a sh1tty club, ya could meet them after and have a chat, they were your little secret.

THEN BOOM, they explode and are playing Arena's and Stadiums.

No longer that little band ya could put in your pocket, you're happy they're out there but a little bit pissed at the same time

riffmongous

scudzilla wrote: »

UFC is a bit like that favourite band ya liked, you used to see them in a sh1tty club, ya could meet them after and have a chat, they were your little secret.

THEN BOOM, they explode and are playing Arena's and Stadiums.

No longer that little band ya could put in your pocket, you're happy they're out there but a little bit pissed at the same time

Well if they started putting out a new album every 6 months mostly full of filler I'd be a bit pissed at that too and be longing for the good old indie days

Henry9

scudzilla wrote: »

UFC is a bit like that favourite band ya liked, you used to see them in a sh1tty club, ya could meet them after and have a chat, they were your little secret.

THEN BOOM, they explode and are playing Arena's and Stadiums.

No longer that little band ya could put in your pocket, you're happy they're out there but a little bit pissed at the same time

More like used to be a great venue that had a show on from time to time, and even though the bill was uneven at least there were some classic bands on.

Now they sign every band in town and have a show on every night because they're afraid someone else will open up a similar venue and compete with them.
In fact when a couple of other venues got off the ground and built a bit of a following, they just bought them and shut them down.

I used to watch interviews/previews/countdown shows to most of the fights before the cards. Haven't done this or been excited about a fight in a long time. The stagnation of TUF doesn't help either. If Coker gets Bellator on the right track hopefully we can see some decent fights again.
I haven't watched a card in it's entirety all year, haven't looked at one interview, countdown show etc. (are they still doing this?)
Can't keep up with the fights and who's who anymore, I can name the contenders but that's about it.

pauldoo

Glad to read this, i though i was getting old and out of touch not been able to name more than half the fighters on a card.

Same as above, i used to really look forward to an event that was 4-5 weeks apart. Watch all the interviews, countdowns, primetimes etc, would love a sunday morning getting up glued to the fights for 3 hours. used to watch every minute

now i find i dont know most of the fighters, not too bothered if i miss the card and actuallyt fast forwarding a lot of the card/fights

May too much filler, i used to like White and how he UFC was run. Now im sick of White and his constant stream of bull**** and the 2 shows a night. watching 6 hours of unknown fighters is a scam (main events excluded).

MrStuffins

Much like Mellor, I used to think "Are you crazy? MORE ASBESTOS MORE ASBESTOS!!"

But not any more. There are way too many cards. My buddy text me the other day to tell me Marquart was an underdog on the New Zealand card and I had no idea that card even existed!

Too many mediocre fighters and mediocre fights. How often to fights actually mean anything these days? There was a time when a card would have a title fight, preceded by a No.1 contender fight, preceded by a fight between two top 10 guys. Maybe there's be another fight on the card between two guys in the mix for one of the titles.

Barely happens these days. Fine, the card coming up has two title fights. But who gets excited about Ronda waiting to beat another chick? Then you've got Struve v Meathead (not title material), Uriah Hall against a guy who lost on TUF Brazil and Marcus Brimmage against a guy i've never heard of and Wiki tells me his only previous UFC fight was the opening fight on a card in the Far East.

John_D80

I think the UFC's biggest problem is there are too many fighters and their total refusal to market their big names properly.

Right now, almost every one in the WORLD recognises the UFC logo and brand and what it stands for but very few lay people would recognise Jon Jones, GSP, Anderson Silva by comparison with the big names in boxing, Mayweather, Paqciauo etc. Further highlighting IMO, the greed on the owners parts. They could easily make their biggest fighters into household names if the wanted to but they don't want their fighters getting too powerful.

Purely form a fans POV and not considering the financial side of it, if I were steering the UFC ship I would do as follows:

-Cut about half of the current roster and limit each weight division to 20-40 fighters. Obviously the welters and lightweights would have a larger number than the likes of the heavys and flys etc.
-Restrict PPV events to no more than 15 per year, with a title fight or big names title eliminator as the main bout at every event.
-Every 6 months the bottom third of each division gets cut to make room for new fighters.
-New fighters would come from a newly created feeder organisation that could stage its own smaller scale and free to air shows. I'd like to see a tournament format like bellator where the winners are rewarded with their place in the UFC roster.

I think a format like this would be brilliant in the long run. Obviously there logistical issues to consider and like I say I'm approaching this with my fans hat on. I'm sure the owners of the UFC would be more concerned with profitability.

DrPhilG

I think the UFC are feeding their image as being the be all and end all of MMA in order to choke out the competition.

At the end of the day a crowd of barely heard of fighters on a UFC card on Fox will probably pull in more viewers than a stacked Bellator card.

John_D80

DrPhilG wrote: »

I think the UFC are feeding their image as being the be all and end all of MMA in order to choke out the competition.

At the end of the day a crowd of barely heard of fighters on a UFC card on Fox will probably pull in more viewers than a stacked Bellator card.

Couldn't agree more but because the roster size and over saturation of events, the UFC no longer holds the prestige and mystique that it once did.

Regional promotions like cage warriors are securing tv deals now, making them more attractive as long term prospects to fighters. Given the choice between headlining a show on the likes of setanta or spike and increasing your public profile that way, or filling a slot in the prelims on UFC fight club, I'm guessing many would choose the former.

Particularly as many promotions can now offer purses similar to those received by the lower level UFC fighters.

unknown13

The UFC giving instant rematches to champions after they loose their title is starting to become more and more annoying. Its way too frequent. Others deserve shots at the title not the previous champion.

scudzilla

unknown13 wrote: »

The UFC giving instant rematches to champions after they loose their title is starting to become more and more annoying. Its way too frequent. Others deserve shots at the title not the previous champion.

If it's a very close fight then i understand it, but if it's a mauling then no, get back in line

Mellor

scudzilla wrote: »

If it's a very close fight then i understand it, but if it's a mauling then no, get back in line

Mauling or not it should go to the best contender.
Eg I think JDS would consistently deserve the shot ahead of almost every HW.