Opinions on flu & whooping cough vaccinations when pregnant?

Plek Trum

Hi all,

not looking for medical advice here but rather opinions.

I am 4 months pregnant, everything going very well, first baby. Baby is due mid December. Yesterday my GP asked me to have a think about getting the flu vaccine and whooping cough vaccine when I meet her next (In about 8 weeks)

I'm very open to the idea, December is peak time for the flu and the more resistance I have on my side the better. She encouraged me however to do my research, ask around and come to my own conclusion.

Has anyone any experience or opinions on this? I know there is a strong argument 'for', is there a valid medical evidenced based argument for 'against'?

Welcome all thoughts and opinions, thanks.

lazygal

I got the flu shot on my first because i was pregnant over the winter. I didn't bother on my second because of the time of year, but I got the whooping cough vaccine. I followed my consultant's advice both times. Two healthy children.

Jerrica

I've had both, I'm 36+5 now. No problems with either shot, no side effects, no sore arms

In the case of whooping cough (pertussis) the cons are that the vaccine has never really been tested per se on pregnant women (ethical reasons) but retrospective studies on the safety and efficacy of the vaccine on pregnant women (it's the tDap vaccine) have shown it to be safe for the vast, vast majority. On the pro's side, it's a vaccine that has extremely high efficacy in protection against whooping cough, a preventable fatal disease.

With regards to the flu, it's no more dangerous for a pregnant woman to receive it than for a non-pregnant person, but flu while pregnant can be extremely dangerous for mum and baby.

Plek Trum

Thanks guys, yes, I'm rather calm about having both and think its much better to err on the side of caution and have the shots. My system has been a little run down so I think taking all the help I can get is a very sensible thing to do. Glad to hear from those that have had both and no problems

Chattastrophe!

I had the flu vaccine, no side effects at all. It can be really dangerous for baby if you get flu when pregnant, I wouldn't take any chances. I wasn't offered the whooping cough vaccine but would ask for it next time. The immunity passes on to the baby too, so they're covered until they start getting their own vaccinations.

Plek Trum

Had a chat with a friend who is a dentist and surprisingly, she was actually really really against both! Has refused them, thinks there is no need and that "they are not fully tested".

Will do plenty of reading on the matter, my GP is very very level headed and she was recommending it, but very encouraging to read lots, ask around and come to my own conclusion.

Hhhhmmmmm........ (?!)

Plek Trum

Had a chat with a friend who is a dentist and surprisingly, she was actually really really against both! Has refused them, thinks there is no need and that "they are not fully tested".

Will do plenty of reading on the matter, my GP is very very level headed and she was recommending it, but very encouraging to read lots, ask around and come to my own conclusion.

Hhhhmmmmm........ (?!)

Dolbert

Does anyone know when would be the recommended time to get the flu shot? I'm also due in December so was thinking it'd be later in the year, flu season but could be wrong. I'll ask at my next appointment anyway but just wondering.

Jerrica

Plek Trum wrote: »

Had a chat with a friend who is a dentist and surprisingly, she was actually really really against both! Has refused them, thinks there is no need and that "they are not fully tested".

She's right, you can't test on pregnant women because it's unethical. They (the vaccines) have however been fully tested on the general population. You can however monitor all pregnant women receiving it and to date there are not significant findings beyond the accepted levels compared to the general populace that suggests it is dangerous to pregnant women or their unborn child.

The NHS, CDC, WHO, immunisation.ie are all good starting points for reading about it

Plek Trum

I think it takes a while for the antibodies to become active / for your immunity to kick in. My GP recommended thinking about it by our nest apt in 8 weeks but don't know if she actually meant she would administer it then also.

Plek Trum

For those interested, links here to HSE:

http://www.immunisation.ie/en/AdultImmunisation/WhoopingCoughPertussis/

http://www.immunisation.ie/en/AdultImmunisation/FluVaccination/FluVaccine-Informationforpregnantwomen/#why_do_pregnant_need_vaccine

Plek Trum

For those interested, links here to HSE:

http://www.immunisation.ie/en/AdultImmunisation/WhoopingCoughPertussis/

http://www.immunisation.ie/en/AdultImmunisation/FluVaccination/FluVaccine-Informationforpregnantwomen/#why_do_pregnant_need_vaccine

Merkin

Both vaccines are pretty much standard here in the UK and I'm really glad I had them. I'm 36+1 now and had no ill effects thankfully. Both my parents work in medicine and obviously have my best interests at heart and advised that getting both vaccines is a good idea!

I had the flu vaccine at my booking appointment and was advised by my midwife that I should also get the flu vaccine in any year I wish to conceive again also. It's been great tbh because a few people at work were struck badly with it and were severely incapacitated and I didn't get so much as a sniffle and had no ill effects from the vaccine.

The whooping cough vaccine was administered at 32 weeks ( and also includes a vaccine for polio, tetanus and diphtheria so it's actually a 4 in 1 vaccine) and again no side effects.

Be assured that neither harm you or your baby.

Merkin

Dolbert wrote: »

Does anyone know when would be the recommended time to get the flu shot? I'm also due in December so was thinking it'd be later in the year, flu season but could be wrong. I'll ask at my next appointment anyway but just wondering.

Flu "season" starts in October and can go right the way up until late April/early May so I'd look at getting the vaccine from 1st October.

Plek Trum

Thanks Merkin, appreciate the info.

Merkin

You're more than welcome and congratulations on the pregnancy. You're at a lovely stage at 16 weeks. You're not too big or anything and if you had any annoying symptoms they have usually abated by now so I bet you're glowing! Enjoy every moment

fiona-f

Just to note there is no constant flu vaccine, a new one is developed each year in response to the mutations in the virus. So you need to wait until this year's formula is available rather than getting the 2013 one. I'm sure your Gp can advise on when that might be. I think it's usually September approx.

The pertussis vaccine on the other hand doesn't change in this way and is a standard formula all year round. While you can theoretically get it any time, I recall that there is a specific window (something like 28 to 34 weeks but I could be wrong) where the transmission of maximum antibodies and protection to your baby occurs. Again GP will advise.

IvyTheTerrible

I got the flu vaccine when I was pregnant. I had no side effects, unless you count a slight sore arm and tiredness (which may or may not have been to do with the pregnancy anyway!). Baby is now a healthy and happy 28 month old.
I was glad I got it because there was a lot of flu around just before he was born.

I was not offered the whooping cough vaccine, I didn't even know you could get that when pregnant!

Karmella

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I was not offered the whooping cough vaccine, I didn't even know you could get that when pregnant!

I hadn't heard anything about the whooping cough vaccine at all until I was chatting to a friend the other night who is also pregnant and is a doctor in the uk. Anyway she says that there have been a lot of outbreaks of it in recent times and it's really dangerous if very small babies get it - fatal even. Babies don't get the full vaccine for it themselves until 6 months, so the reason for giving it to mothers is so they will be born with some of the immunity.

I'm not sure if we are being routinely offered it here in Ireland, maybe there hasn't been a lot of cases to warrant it? I've my GTT next week so going to ask my gp about it. Apparently there is a shortage of the vaccine!!

How Strange

I got the flu jab on my first pregnancy but not on my second as I haven't had the flu since I was 16 so the likelihood of getting it again is quite small. Most people confuse a bad cold with the flu.

I didn't get the whoop in cough jab as my gp refused to give it and I agreed with their reasons. You can arrange for your baby to have the whooping cough jab when it's born so there's another option if you're worried about whopping cough.

Merkin

How Strange wrote: »

I got the flu jab on my first pregnancy but not on my second as I haven't had the flu since I was 16 so the likelihood of getting it again is quite small. Most people confuse a bad cold with the flu.

I didn't get the whoop in cough jab as my gp refused to give it and I agreed with their reasons. You can arrange for your baby to have the whooping cough jab when it's born so there's another option if you're worried about whopping cough.

But there are so many strains of flu and just because you've caught flu once does not preclude you from contracting it again so that does not effect your likelihood of catching it again. The jab is worth getting.

I thought the 5 in 1 (whooping cough) jab was only administered after two months in a baby and not before?

Karmella

Merkin wrote: »

But there are so many strains of flu and just because you've caught flu once does not preclude you from contracting it again so that does not effect your likelihood of catching it again. The jab is worth getting.

I thought the 5 in 1 (whooping cough) jab was only administered after two months in a baby and not before?

Yeah there is a 6 in 1 jab at 2, 4 & 6 months here - I presume there's only full immunity after the 6 mth one. The only vaccine given at birth is the BCG for TB.

How Strange

According to my gp there's no reason why it can't be given after birth as I specifically asked if it could.

As for the flu jab, I personally didn't consider flu a high risk illness.

However it's a personal decision for every woman. I don't think there's any right or wrong thing to do.

pwurple

Flu can be very serious in pregnancy, which is why the jab is recommended. You're more likely to get far sicker with the flu if you are pregnant than if you are not, and the complications, like pneumonia, are also more likely. Pneumonia and other flu complications can bring on pre-term labour.

Also, some studies have shown an increased risk of neural tube defects in the babies of women who experience high fevers during the first trimester of pregnancy.

It wasn't a risk I wanted to take.

Ms2011

Wasn't offered the whooping cough vaccine & refused the flu jab on the advice of my midwife. In her opinion the jab hadn't been tested enough for pregnant women, the virus can't be transmitted to the baby & once you are fit & healthy you can fight it off youself with little risk to the baby.
To me putting a chemical into my body while pregnant with unknown long term effects, on the off chance I may contract an illness with a v.small chance of being dangerous to my baby just didn't feel right.
As said it's up to personal choice, it's about weighing up what you feel is a bigger risk.

whiteandlight

Will definitely get the flu vaccine as I'm an asthmatic and already officially in the "at risk" category

Will likely get the whooping cough vaccine too

Martx

Read vaccine package insert which states:

"Safety and effectiveness of FLULAVAL have not been established in pregnant women or nursing mothers. (8.1, 8.3)"
"There are, however, no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. Because animal reproduction studies are not always predictive of human response, FLULAVAL should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed."

I'm not sure which vaccine you are gonna get, but read it before you make a decision.

whiteandlight

As an asthmatic I'm not taking any chances, I get the flu vaccine regardless of pregnancy. I was off work for three weeks last January with a really bad asthma attack. I will get the flu vaccine.

January

Martx wrote: »

Read vaccine package insert which states:

"Safety and effectiveness of FLULAVAL have not been established in pregnant women or nursing mothers. (8.1, 8.3)"
"There are, however, no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. Because animal reproduction studies are not always predictive of human response, FLULAVAL should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed."

I'm not sure which vaccine you are gonna get, but read it before you make a decision.

Every single vaccination will say this, they won't do trials on pregnant women for obvious reasons.

rozeboosje

Nobody here is an expert ... I certainly am not, and I dare say nobody else here is either. Nor would I expect a dentist to a particularly good source of information. In fact, the only person in the whole situation who can be credited with any level of expertise is your GP. If he or she recommends the vaccine, being fully aware of your circumstances, I see no reason why you should be suspicious.

Martx

January wrote: »

Every single vaccination will say this, they won't do trials on pregnant women for obvious reasons.

So,is it a gamble? Because there's no proof that it's safe or unsafe. They could check how effective and safe it is by doing questionnaire for already vaccinated women, or is that unethical?
Who would you trust, a manufacturer's information or GP's? If product information leaflet says that it may cause death and GP says otherwise, would you take it?

"As an asthmatic I'm not taking any chances, I get the flu vaccine regardless of pregnancy. I was off work for three weeks last January with a really bad asthma attack. I will get the flu vaccine."

There is a research which shows that asthma occurs amongst vaccinated people then amongst unvaccinated. Study was done with children, but that apply to adults as well.

"Asthma, hayfever and neurodermatitis.....A recent German study with 17461 children between 0-17 years of age (KIGGS) showed that 4.7% of these children suffer from asthma, 10.7% of these children from hayfever and 13.2% from neurodermatitis. These numbers differ in western countries, i.e. the prevalence of asthma among children in the US is 6% whereas it is 14-16% in Australia (Australia’s Health 2004, AIHW)
The prevalence of asthma among unvaccinated children in our study is 0.2%, hayfever 1.5% and neurodermatitis 2%."

whiteandlight

I don't get you? Feels like its missing a word.
"There is a research which shows that asthma occurs amongst vaccinated people then amongst unvaccinated. Study was done with children, but that apply to adults as well. "

I didn't get the flu vaccines until I developed adult asthma so if that is suggesting that the vaccine caused it then that is most certainly not the case.

One way or another I am not getting into an argument about it. All my medical advice (doctor, consultant and nurses) is to get the vaccine and I will continue to do so. The government even provides it free to me because of my meds!

Martx

whiteandlight wrote: »

I don't get you? Feels like its missing a word.
"There is a research which shows that asthma occurs amongst vaccinated people then amongst unvaccinated. Study was done with children, but that apply to adults as well. "

I didn't get the flu vaccines until I developed adult asthma so if that is suggesting that the vaccine caused it then that is most certainly not the case.

One way or another I am not getting into an argument about it. All my medical advice (doctor, consultant and nurses) is to get the vaccine and I will continue to do so. The government even provides it free to me because of my meds!

I'm not saying that flu shot will cause asthma.Vaccines are not free, the taxpayer is paying for them. Medical staff are not taking flu shots as they should:

irishhealth. com/article.html?id=22818

margo321

I know we worry about taking any medication or vaccines but if my child was the unlucky one to get whooping cough I'd never forgive myself. I saw a few weeks ago on the news they're an epidemic of in California. It looks awful. My family has all being getting the flu vaccine years as my dad has cancer and his dr recommended we all get it. We've never had any side effects. I'll take my dr's advice and get the whopping vaccine booster too.

Merkin

Martx wrote: »

I'm not saying that flu shot will cause asthma.Vaccines are not free, the taxpayer is paying for them. Medical staff are not taking flu shots as they should:

irishhealth. com/article.html?id=22818

Look, you clearly have an agenda. You've just joined Boards, you've got 16 posts and all of them are relating to your anti vaccine campaign. I don't think it's in any way helpful, kind or constructive coming on to a pregnant woman's forum bleating on with your own agenda and attempting to scare monger in the process. Women who have availed of both the flu jab and the whooping cough vaccine have done so after their own research and consulting with medical professionals, their baby's wellbeing and good health at the forefront of all our minds. Your contribution isn't helpful.

Jerrica

Martx wrote: »

So,is it a gamble? Because there's no proof that it's safe or unsafe. They could check how effective and safe it is by doing questionnaire for already vaccinated women, or is that unethical?
Who would you trust, a manufacturer's information or GP's? If product information leaflet says that it may cause death and GP says otherwise, would you take it?

Retrospectively analysing data for vaccination of pregnant women is how vaccines are generally assessed for safety and efficacy. Let's not forget that these vaccines are already tested fully for administration to the general population so they have been determined as safe in that regard. Is there a risk? Sure, but when I weigh up the risk of complication due to flu (high risk) versus complication due to vaccination (extremely low risk) then the decision is a little more straightforward.

Martx

Merkin wrote: »

Look, you clearly have an agenda. You've just joined Boards, you've got 16 posts and all of them are relating to your anti vaccine campaign. I don't think it's in any way helpful, kind or constructive coming on to a pregnant woman's forum bleating on with your own agenda and attempting to scare monger in the process. Women who have availed of both the flu jab and the whooping cough vaccine have done so after their own research and consulting with medical professionals, their baby's wellbeing and good health at the forefront of all our minds. Your contribution isn't helpful.

Did I say,don't get vaccinated? I said read it, before taking decision. If you have problem with people who have different opinion then yours, it's not my fault. I don't see a reason why I should blindly trust doctors. How come that medical staff are not taking flu shots as they should? Don't you think that they have a reason for that?

Jerrica

Martx wrote: »

Did I say,don't get vaccinated? I said read it, before taking decision. If you have problem with people who have different opinion then yours, it's not my fault. I don't see a reason why I should blindly trust doctors. How come that medical staff are not taking flu shots as they should? Don't you think that they have a reason for that?

You say you don't see a reason why you should trust doctors and then you refer to an article describing a lack of uptake... would (your) logic not say you would distrust their judgement in that decision and more should get vaccinated? The article offers absolutely no explanation as to any possible reasons for the lack of uptake so any suggestions you or I may make are pure conjecture (and frankly conspiracy theorist).

Anyway, this thread is about the flu jab in pregnant women so here's an article from five days ago that's more on topic: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0FE1YU20140709?irpc=932

Martx

Jerrica wrote: »

You say you don't see a reason why you should trust doctors and then you refer to an article describing a lack of uptake... would (your) logic not say you would distrust their judgement in that decision and more should get vaccinated? The article offers absolutely no explanation as to any possible reasons for the lack of uptake so any suggestions you or I may make are pure conjecture (and frankly conspiracy theorist).

Anyway, this thread is about the flu jab in pregnant women so here's an article from five days ago that's more on topic:

Lack of uptake is because of refusals to get vaccinated. Doctors and nurses who are against it, have to keep their heads low and mouth shut. People call conspiracy theory on everything what is against public opinion.

Merkin

Martx wrote: »

Lack of uptake is because of refusals to get vaccinated.

You are spouting utter nonsense. I see you got warnings and bans over in Health Sciences based on your spurious and ill-founded assertions and theories.

I suggest you go and buy some stamps and envelopes and get busy writing to all the various drug governing bodies and health research boards with your claims. Or else make yourself a little placard and stand outside FDA headquarters to occupy your time. That or maybe make your way over to the Conspiracy Theories forum. :rolleyes:

Martx

Merkin wrote: »

You are spouting utter nonsense. I see you got warnings and bans over in Health Sciences based on your spurious and ill-founded assertions and theories.

I suggest you go and buy some stamps and envelopes and get busy writing to all the various drug governing bodies and health research boards with your claims. Or else make yourself a little placard and stand outside FDA headquarters to occupy your time. That or maybe make your way over to the Conspiracy Theories forum. :rolleyes:

Got banned for asking wrong questions There are people making claims for vaccine injury and they win court cases, if you think that court decisions are based on conspiracy theory's then it's your problem.

January

Closed for review by a mod later this evening.