2 teachers

onedmc

I just heard that my primary school child will have 2 teachers on job sharing.

I really dont know what to think of this but this it dosnt seem like its in the best interest of my child.

Is this all for the benefit of the teachers so that they can hold onto their years of service while doing only 10 to 12 hours a week.

Has anyone got an opinion or strong feeling on this

byhookorbycrook

Why would you take such a negative view? Job-sharing "for the benefit of the teachers" and "doesn't seem like it's in the best interest of my child" -what makes you think that? Do you honestly believe a Board Of Management would allow something they knew was NOT in the best interest of the children to go ahead?

poolsandles

I think you are completely over reacting. As byhookerbycrook has said all job sharing applications are subject to Board of Management approval. The Board would not have sanctioned the job sharing arrangement it if it felt your child's education would be compromised in any way.

Why don't you think it is in the best interests of your child? I would suggest you make an appointment with the principal to discuss your concerns.

There are hundreds of job sharing teachers all over the country. It's certainly not uncommon. Is the first time a member of staff in your school has job shared? Don't worry. I know of several schools where it happens and the arrangement works very well for both teachers and students.

byhookorbycrook

The children get the best of two teachers. Both teachers HAVE to cover work, as one has to hand over to the other.

TonyStark

onedmc wrote: »

I just heard that my primary school child will have 2 teachers on job sharing.

I really dont know what to think of this but this it dosnt seem like its in the best interest of my child.

Is this all for the benefit of the teachers so that they can hold onto their years of service while doing only 10 to 12 hours a week.

Has anyone got an opinion or strong feeling on this

The natural reaction is that I would be worried my children's education would fall between the cracks and gaps with weekly handover.

That said if group in question is on the small side, I would see it to be more manageable arrangement.

No Pants

onedmc wrote: »

I really dont know what to think of this

I don't need to add anything to the above. :rolleyes:

Toto Wolfcastle

onedmc wrote: »

Is this all for the benefit of the teachers so that they can hold onto their years of service while doing only 10 to 12 hours a week.

It's more that the teachers will have decided that they want to work part time for various reasons. It's the same as job sharing in other professions. My mother job shared (she wasn't a teacher) after she had a third child because it was financially viable and she could spend more time with us. That's generally why people choose to job share.

You're right to find out more about the arrangement. If it's new to you you may well be worried about how it will work. Give the school a shout to arrange a meeting about it so that you can find out more. I'm sure other parents are worried too and will be doing similar. It is a pretty common arrangement though and for the most part it works fine.

muckisluck

Normally schools hold meetings with the parents of the children in these classes to help allay any concerns they might have. Usually this helps a lot. Keep in touch with the school during the year as well if there are any issues as schools are very anxious that these arrangements suit everybody.

Pugins

I can understand how you might be concerned about how the teaching will be shared between two teachers. But it can also be a positive thing if there is good planning and communication between the 2 teachers. My daughter has 2 job sharing teachers (1 day:4 days) and I like it. The teachers have different approaches to teaching and discipline and they have different personalities. The teacher who teaches 1 day a week is also the school music teacher, is young and trendy. The other teacher is older and more traditional. I think both bring their own qualities to my child's education.

onedmc

Thanks for all the response, I'll try to respond.

Yes my negativity towards the issues comes through because I have serious concerns. I would be of the opinion that the board of management may not have any real power to stop this as once its government policy and the union agree they cant do much. But lets not go too far down that path

My child gets very attached to her teacher and I see that strong bond as vital for learning and to ensure that the teacher can spot any learning difficulties. Its not just me but research shows that this early student/teacher bond is vital to the long-term success of a child's education.

I have contacted the school about this, requesting the policy and procedures but no response yet. I know the principle well but this was never mentioned.

I will continue to research but I'm still trying to find some positives.

Big Bag of Chips

onedmc wrote: »

My child gets very attached to her teacher

So, what's to stop her getting very attached to both teachers?
In our school, Senior Infants get to go out to the resource teacher every day for an hour for literacy and numeracy. This allows the class teacher concentrate on the junior infants' literacy & numeracy. So every year, the senior infant class effectively has 2 teachers... And they love it.

Raise your concerns with the school, of course, but at least give it a chance before you start giving out about things that you think "might" happen.

Edit: When did you contact the school? Schools are closed now, and in most schools the teachers won't be back until the last week of August.

pooch90

Completely OTT reaction with no actual basis for it.
Give it a chance.

We have job sharing in our school. The two teachers have completely different styles and this appeal to the various children.
I find it more inclusive than just 1 teacher to be honest.
RE picking up on learning difficulties, you have a better chance with two teachers!

Your child getting attached to one teacher isn't healthy anyway, what if the teacher is out for a day, do they have a meltdown?? What age are they?
You say you have serious concerns, what are they? All you've said is the child gets attached. That's not a serious concern.

The BoM has sanctioned it, they're not going to roll back on it because you (as one of 20+ parents/guardians) don't like the idea of it with no real reason.

hilarymcl

I worked as a job share teacher for a year and the children really benefitted. The other teacher involved had very different strengths to mine and the children got the best of both worlds. There were different styles of discipline and slightly differently boundaries re noise, group work etc but the children adapted really quickly. Our weekly handovers were comprehensive and the work done during the year was great... as a teacher the knowledge that another teacher is checking what you've done each week possibly keeps you on your toes slightly more than when you work alone! I really believe it's of great advantage to the children and certainly my class were more than proud to be the class with two teachers that year.

evolving_doors

From a secondary point of view they will have about 12 teachers in 1st year! I can appreciate your point though if they are a very junior class. Its good for teachers to bounce ideas off each other too rather than staying in their own class/family bubble indefinitely. So I would say the pupils will benefit if the parents are allowed the oppertunity to prepare them for next september (mentally!).

huskerdu

Could I suggest that you be very careful how you communicate with your child about this.

Your child will pick up on your negativity about job-sharing teachers and will think it is a bad thing. This could very quickly
become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Kids have to get used to having a new teacher every year and having substitute teachers for individual days or longer if a teacher get sick or goes on maternity leave mid-year. Its easier on some kids than others. You can help her to see this in a positive light.

Your school have clearly not done a good job of explaining to you how it will work. When my daughter had job-sharing teachers there was
a meeting for parents where we met both teachers and they, and the principal explained how it would work and we could express our concerns. I think this is essential for parents faced with this situation.

BTW, my childs class had a very positive experience of having two teachers.

mollyboo

Holy Moley!! This jobshare thing has just been landed on me on the first week of school and I don't know what to do!
We were never told there were going to be 2 teachers teaching our child, he's only going into junior infants!! He doesn't know whether he's coming or going!
If I had known this was going to happen I would've picked a different school!
Any advice?

Chattastrophe!

mollyboo wrote: »

Holy Moley!! This jobshare thing has just been landed on me on the first week of school and I don't know what to do!
We were never told there were going to be 2 teachers teaching our child, he's only going into junior infants!! He doesn't know whether he's coming or going!
If I had known this was going to happen I would've picked a different school!
Any advice?

My eight-month-old has around 4-5 creche minders on any one day, and he seems to cope grand with it ...

Your child will pick up on your negative reactions.

So they have more than one teacher - so what? Is it not a wonderful thing that he gets to benefit from the strengths of both teachers? I just can't see how a parent would automatically see this as a negative thing for the child, unless you have a particular problem with one of the teachers in question?

triple nipple

byhookorbycrook wrote:

Why would you take such a negative view? Job-sharing "for the benefit of the teachers" and "doesn't seem like it's in the best interest of my child" -what makes you think that? Do you honestly believe a Board Of Management would allow something they knew was NOT in the best interest of the children to go ahead?

ehhh yeah

freshpopcorn

As long as the teachers teach and the child is happy(most importantly) that's all that counts.
I don't even know how your kid can pick up on the issue.(tbh)

Toto Wolfcastle

If he's in Junior Infants he wont know any better. Better to have it happen now than to happen in a few years when he's used to one teacher. Even then he would adapt. The teachers will be working together to make sure everything is covered, and as a result you can be extra sure everything is being done. Your child will also benefit from being taught by different personalities.

evolving_doors

I've heard of this in a good few schools also this year. Is this a recent blip or is it a common enough thing?

lazygal

Armelodie wrote: »

I've heard of this in a good few schools also this year. Is this a recent blip or is it a common enough thing?

Most schools I know have this going on, mainly because female teachers are juggling work and children and don't want to teach full time. I wouldn't be particularly happy with it myself. I've heard of parents having to discuss problems but being fobbed off because 'the other teacher' was dealing with the issue.

As for the comments like 'in the best interests of the child' if having two teachers job sharing was in the best interests of the child wouldn't it be standard practice? Most job sharing happens because of the teacher's priorities, not the children's, i.e. they don't want to work full hours, not because they think they'll provide better learning outcomes but because they have personal reasons for doing so.

Secondary school is a different kettle of fish than a five year old starting primary school for the first time having two teachers to deal with right from the start.


ETA I'm in a role which would be ideal for job sharing and I may avail of it in the future, so I've nothing against job sharing, but I don't think teaching is really a suitable industry for it. I'm probably biased based on a bad personal experience though where the two teachers were both half assed about the job.

Lady_North1

Armelodie wrote: »

I've heard of this in a good few schools also this year. Is this a recent blip or is it a common enough thing?

Job sharing in my local school for about 12 years. My son had these teachers in 1st class. No problems. He's now in leaving cert year.

Sometimes I think that we, parents, over think things and judge without understanding or knowing the facts. Don't create an issue for your child unless there is one. Kids adapt amazingly well. Give it time.

mollyboo

lazygal wrote: »

Most schools I know have this going on, mainly because female teachers are juggling work and children and don't want to teach full time. I wouldn't be particularly happy with it myself. I've heard of parents having to discuss problems but being fobbed off because 'the other teacher' was dealing with the issue.

As for the comments like 'in the best interests of the child' if having two teachers job sharing was in the best interests of the child wouldn't it be standard practice? Most job sharing happens because of the teacher's priorities, not the children's, i.e. they don't want to work full hours, not because they think they'll provide better learning outcomes but because they have personal reasons for doing so.

Secondary school is a different kettle of fish than a five year old starting primary school for the first time having two teachers to deal with right from the start.


ETA I'm in a role which would be ideal for job sharing and I may avail of it in the future, so I've nothing against job sharing, but I don't think teaching is really a suitable industry for it. I'm probably biased based on a bad personal experience though where the two teachers were both half assed about the job.

LAZYGAL, You're spot on!
This job share lark suits the teachers in question, not the children. They are not putting the children first.
That first year in primary school can be hard enough for a child to get his head around without the confusion of two "half" teachers.
I spent the day trying to find another school for my child, not ideal one week in to the school year.

Insect Overlord

Sounds like ye're over-reacting, to be honest.

freshpopcorn

I think taking a kid out of school now and moving them would be more distressing for them than having two teachers. The kid is just getting used to new people/friends/surrounding and you want to up sticks and land them somewhere else. The kid is only staring off and for all he know everyone has two teachers.

evolving_doors

mollyboo wrote: »

LAZYGAL, You're spot on!
This job share lark suits the teachers in question, not the children. They are not putting the children first.
That first year in primary school can be hard enough for a child to get his head around without the confusion of two "half" teachers.
I spent the day trying to find another school for my child, not ideal one week in to the school year.

'Two half-teachers' is your perception...
does the child think of 2 half parents?

So what happens when you move the child to a school and the teacher goes on jobshare? .....move again!

Secondary school they will have 12x 1/12 teachers. If the rest of the class doesn't think about it your child won't worry about it. Unless you start bad mouthing the school in front of the child. Start as you mean to go on.

lazygal

Armelodie wrote: »

'Two half-teachers' is your perception...
does the child think of 2 half parents?

So what happens when you move the child to a school and the teacher goes on jobshare? .....move again!

Secondary school they will have 12x 1/12 teachers. If the rest of the class doesn't think about it your child won't worry about it. Unless you start bad mouthing the school in front of the child. Start as you mean to go on.

There is a huge difference between a five year old who may be entering education for the first time having inconsistent teaching from two teachers and a 12 year old who's already had eight years of school behind them dealing with different subject teachers. There is also no comparison between parents and teachers - I can't decided to 'job share' my parenting with another mother because I prefer to parent part time.
I still maintain this is an adult centred approach by adults who don't, for whatever reason, want to work full time. And it is never done because a teacher thinks it will improve the teaching experience of students, it is done for personal reasons. And if indeed it was best practice, it would be standard across the board for all schools to have job sharing teachers.
I know teachers get defensive about this practice - I have friends who are teachers - but they can't get around the fact that they don't apply for job sharing because of the students, they apply for job sharing because of their own personal circumstances.

Toto Wolfcastle

lazygal wrote: »

but they can't get around the fact that they don't apply for job sharing because of the students, they apply for job sharing because of their own personal circumstances.

And so they should. People should definitely do whatever they can to suit their personal circumstances. Job sharing is available to teachers so like any other job where it is available, it is availed of.

lazygal

Bobblehead Panda wrote: »

And so they should. People should definitely do whatever they can to suit their personal circumstances. Job sharing is available to teachers so like any other job where it is available, it is availed of.

Not every job is suited to job sharing and despite its popularity among teachers I think teaching is one of those professions. Children need stability and continuity, not two days with one teacher one week and three days with them the next week.
It'd be nice if teachers would simply acknowledge that they aren't job sharing for the students, they are job sharing for themselves, regardless of any ancillary benefits they think the arrangements may have for the children who have to put up with it.

Toto Wolfcastle

lazygal wrote: »

Not every job is suited to job sharing and despite its popularity among teachers I think teaching is one of those professions. Children need stability and continuity, not two days with one teacher one week and three days with them the next week.
It'd be nice if teachers would simply acknowledge that they aren't job sharing for the students, they are job sharing for themselves, regardless of any ancillary benefits they think the arrangements may have for the children who have to put up with it.

I don't disagree that best practice is that it should be one teacher per class (and I include the ridiculous practice of combining classes from different years in that) but what I'm saying is that it's not the teachers fault that job sharing is available to them. The point is that it is available to them and they should be able to avail of it if they want without people thinking that they're out to ruin the child's education. If it's such an issue, then don't allow teachers to job share. But while it's available no one can complain about a teacher when they choose to job share. They are merely taking an opportunity that, most likely, improves their quality of life. Complain about the Department of Education and the Board of Management for providing the opportunity, but don't complain about an individual doing something to improve their work-life balance.

I know plenty of teachers who have job shared. None of them have ever claimed that they were doing it for the children. And I don't think anyone here has claimed that either. (Although I haven't read back through the thread again so I stand to be corrected.) People are merely pointing out that it's not the end of the world.

freshpopcorn

What happens if the teacher is sick and misses a few days of school and the class is split up and mixed around the school or your kid ends up with a couple of different subs. Will your kid be able to cope with having two teachers?
What happens if a students from the link of Mary I has to do a work placement for a couple of weeks do you move your kid again because its to unsettling for them.
What happens if the school picks up that your kid might need an extra bit of help with a subject and they feel learning support/resource would benefit them. This would require the kid seeing a different teacher a couple of times a week. Would they be able to get there head around that or would you object to the extra help.

Big Bag of Chips

I don't think anybody is claiming they jobshare "for the kids". What people are saying is that if this was something that was proven to be problematic for children, then it would not be allowed. The fact that it is allowed means that as a whole it benefits the children... ( Nobody is saying it is MORE beneficial for children)

And I do agree, parents always seem to make more of an issue than their children. Children very quickly adapt to different situations. They learn very quickly what they might get away with at home will not be tolerated in school, for example.

Why not give things a chance before knocking it. And any child starting junior infants might be a bit unsettled "just because"... But I suppose it's easy to blame the job sharing teachers.

(I'd like to point out I'm not a teacher! I don't work in a school. I just have kids!)

evolving_doors

If you dont agree with job share then chances are you dont agree with the principal of parental leave either. Which btw is open to any employee in Ireland.

Nobody here suggested that JS is done primarily to benefit the pupils so I think we can leave that logic to one side of the debate.

I just wonder how someone can assert that if they move their child to another school it'll stop the next teacher going on Job share... or god forbid maternity leave MID TERM!!

I actually had a parent telling me before that he was deeply unhappy with the amount of teachers getting pregnant in my school!!

Would taking his child to another school protect his son from this madness? He'd have to profile the age/gender/relationship status of every teacher first!

vamos!

I don't understand the problem with job sharing. Yes, the primary motivation of teachers who apply for it is their own personal lives.

However, imagine a situation where job sharing was banned in primary schools. Teachers may not be able to afford to give up work and would be working away on full hours and juggling their home lives. If something has to give you can be sure that planning, creating worksheets and games and investing personal time learning how to use iPads, teach Scratch etc would be the first to go. Pupils would have one teacher but a teacher who was covering the bare minimum and trying to used as little as their own personal time as possible. Or a teacher who tried their best and burns out. Exhaustion equals crankiness which is hardly idea for JI kids. I know the vast majority of teachers manage to have lives and families and work successfully but these people are putting their own children to bed and taking out the plans at 10pm to start again. For some people this is not sustainable and job sharing is ideal and benefits all concerned.

I don't have children but if I do I can guarantee that they will be my priority. I will still do my job to the best of my ability but probably won't be doing 60 hour weeks as I have done in the past (secondary teacher with 2 Leaving Cert subjects and oral exam prep).

SamforMayo

mollyboo wrote: »

LAZYGAL, You're spot on!
This job share lark suits the teachers in question, not the children. They are not putting the children first.
That first year in primary school can be hard enough for a child to get his head around without the confusion of two "half" teachers.
I spent the day trying to find another school for my child, not ideal one week in to the school year.

I think you have to be annoyed as parents would normally be informed about a job share effecting their child and usually an information meeting is held to allay parents fears and avoid the drama that goes with change. However I think you are totally over reacting and changing your child to a different school over this is nothing short of madness. Give it a chance. Children generally love Job shares, they thrive on variety and its great for timid children as they get use to change in a secure setting.