is choosing not to give a statement a crime

speed_gun

i did not witness a crime but got a call from the guards recently about the fact that i bought something off someone who is under investigation , the guards wanted me to come in and put in writing details of our transaction , i want to add that our transaction was entirely above board and the kind of item we traded has state supervision and our transaction is itself not the core of the investigation , i get the impression that my involvement with this person is merely being used to build a larger case , i wish to add that i did not know this person before i bought the item off them , i met them once for a half an hour , paid for the item and that was nearly a year ago

i would perfer not to involve myself in any of this

my question is this

is it a crime not to agree to give a statement - help the guards

how likely would i to be subpoened ?

Zambia

speed_gun wrote: »

i did not witness a crime but got a call from the guards recently about the fact that i bought something off someone who is under investigation , the guards wanted me to come in and put in writing details of our transaction , i want to add that our transaction was entirely above board and the kind of item we traded has state supervision and our transaction is itself not the core of the investigation , i get the impression that my involvement with this person is merely being used to build a larger case , i wish to add that i did not know this person before i bought the item off them , i met them once for a half an hour , paid for the item and that was nearly a year ago

i would perfer not to involve myself in any of this

my question is this

is it a crime not to agree to give a statement - help the guards

how likely would i to be subpoened ?

Imagine if you were the victim in the case? The right thing to do is to help the Gardai. The correct legal thing to do is between you and a solicitor.

However in the joe OReilly case didn't his friends get arrested for impending an investigation or similar?

speed_gun

Zambia wrote: »

Imagine if you were the victim in the case? The right thing to do is to help the Gardai. The correct legal thing to do is between you and a solicitor.

However in the joe OReilly case didn't his friends get arrested for impending an investigation or similar?

i dont even know what this person is meant to have done , i dont know them , i met them once a year ago and never knew them before that , its hardly the same thing

the guards wouldnt tell me what they are being investigated for , im conscious of the fact that their could be reprucussions were i to make a statement , its not like the guards dont knowingly allow witnesses to be exposed for the sake of getting their man etc

GerardKeating

speed_gun wrote: »

i did not witness a crime but got a call from the guards recently about the fact that i bought something off someone who is under investigation , the guards wanted me to come in and put in writing details of our transaction , i want to add that our transaction was entirely above board and the kind of item we traded has state supervision and our transaction is itself not the core of the investigation , i get the impression that my involvement with this person is merely being used to build a larger case , i wish to add that i did not know this person before i bought the item off them , i met them once for a half an hour , paid for the item and that was nearly a year ago

i would perfer not to involve myself in any of this

my question is this

is it a crime not to agree to give a statement - help the guards

how likely would i to be subpoened ?

Depends on how much they want/need your help/cooperation and how much offence they take with your non-cooperation.

They might not bother to follow up, a reluctant witness is not always useful.

It would almost certainly be less effort/time to talk to them willingly than most other options they might think of.

speed_gun

GerardKeating wrote: »

Depends on how much they want/need your help/cooperation and how much offence they take with your non-cooperation.

They might not bother to follow up, a reluctant witness is not always useful.

It would almost certainly be less effort/time to talk to them willingly than most other options they might think of.

thanks , i get the impression they wouldnt bother pursuing it , i will politely decline so as not to appear obtuse etc

Zambia

Well then ask the Garda straight forward questions.

Tell them your concerns and at least give them a chance to address them.

Bear in mind if you do not give a statement you may still be summoned as a witness. From my limited experience two lawyers discuss a case. They read the statements of witnesses and decide what they will concede. If you do not provide a statement well a barrister may well think there is some value in dragging your behind into court and seeing what you have to say.

Fred Swanson

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speed_gun

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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i know that and i would never advise someone who was themselves under investigation to make a statement , better to wait til court so no twisting of what you put to paper nine months earlier becomes a land mine in court

im asking if not giving a statement about having done business with someone is likely to result in a subpeona

Zambia

So if the prosecution states mr a his/her client in possession of stolen goods but mr a does not wish to give a statement do they just accept that because they don't know what he might say?

While I agree there is no obligation to give a statement you still can be summoned as a witness.

Fred Swanson

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Zambia

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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But the fact is he can still be summoned if either party want his evidence?

Fred Swanson

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Zambia

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I would agree. However you never know. The Garda May relay to the prosecutor that old speed-gun is a sound fella and will if asked in the box tell his story.

However the lack of a statement from speed gun may mean the case is not proceeded with.

speed_gun

Zambia wrote: »

So if the prosecution states mr a his/her client in possession of stolen goods but mr a does not wish to give a statement do they just accept that because they don't know what he might say?

While I agree there is no obligation to give a statement you still can be summoned as a witness.

this isnt about stolen goods , i asked the guard if the item in question was stolen , to which he replied no , he then mumbled something about what the seller had done with the money

like i said , i get the impression , they are using my dealings with this person as a small brick in a large wall to convict the guy , i have concerns about the whole thing because while i live somewhere else now , my mum lives where i used to , this person would have known my former adress due to the nature of the transaction , i do not wish to put my mum in a vulnerable possition , i put this to the guard and he glibly replied " dont worry about it "

someone close to me is a solicitor and they said guards will assure you that everything is ok even its hanibal lector you are providing info on

frankly i would prefer to be found in contempt of court due to not having co-operated than to put my mum in a vulnerable possition , how long can one be sentanced for contempt of court

Fred Swanson

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dharma200

You won't be done for contempt of court. you have nothing to say about the whole thing other than what you ahem said here.
Your dealings are you bought something off this person. thats all.
If you don't want to talk to the guards or give a statement tell them that. They have no powers to compel you.

speed_gun

dharma200 wrote: »

You won't be done for contempt of court. you have nothing to say about the whole thing other than what you ahem said here.
Your dealings are you bought something off this person. thats all.
If you don't want to talk to the guards or give a statement tell them that. They have no powers to compel you.

the guards did not visit my house , they just called me twice to try and arrange a meeting with me and asked if i recall the person in question , took me a while to recall the purchase but when they pointed out the adress ( sixty miles from where i lived then and a hundred from where i live now ) of the seller , i said " oh yeah , i only met the person briefly and the once "

while perhaps i should have denied remembering at all , as far as i know , what is said over the phone cannot be used in court ?

they also asked me to produce a copy of the cheque i used to pay for the item , i told them i would have to see if i still had it , i have not heard from them since


i might add that i once lost a court case ( due to a truly incompetant solicitor ) which i mistakenly didnt appeal , would this give the guards more leverage against me in this case

i might also add that when the guards rang me , they told me i wasnt in any trouble myself

speed_gun

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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care to elaborate , im not legally versed unlike most on this thread

Fred Swanson

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speed_gun

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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and if i elect not to make a statement and this resulted in a court summons , if i didnt answer the courts questions sufficently , would i be likely to be held in contempt of court

Little CuChulainn

Why don't you just ask the Garda what the case is about? I doubt you have to worry about your mum. It sounds like your evidence will be pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

speed_gun

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Why don't you just ask the Garda what the case is about? I doubt you have to worry about your mum. It sounds like your evidence will be pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

because experience has told me that you cannot trust the guards , someone close to me is a solicitor and told me that a guard reassuring you that their will be no consequence to making a statement is meaningless

Little CuChulainn

speed_gun wrote: »

because experience has told me that you cannot trust the guards , someone close to me is a solicitor and told me that a guard reassuring you that their will be no consequence to making a statement is meaningless

And I doubt you'll find a Garda that says you can trust a solicitor either.

speed_gun

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

And I doubt you'll find a Garda that says you can trust a solicitor either.

hardly relevant but since you mentioned it

solicitors have much less power than guards and are' much less likely to have a herd mentality

Fred Swanson

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Little CuChulainn

speed_gun wrote: »

hardly relevant but since you mentioned it

solicitors have much less power than guards and are' much less likely to have a herd mentality

You've obviously never made a complaint to the law society.

What I meant was, make up your own mind when you get more info. If they're after some international drug importer like Scarface then your concerns might be justified. If they are after some guy who's importing fake ipads then it's unlikely you have to worry. In reality, witness intimidation isn't really a big thing in Ireland.

Victor

Wasn't the alleged intended victim of the recent Ballyfermot shooting arrested for ailing to cooperate with the Garda?

Presumably a more serious case though.

Little CuChulainn

Victor wrote: »

Wasn't the alleged intended victim of the recent Ballyfermot shooting arrested for ailing to cooperate with the Garda?

Presumably a more serious case though.

Withholding information is the charge if I recall. I've seen that in a good few murder cases.

Zambia

speed_gun wrote: »

because experience has told me that you cannot trust the guards , someone close to me is a solicitor and told me that a guard reassuring you that their will be no consequence to making a statement is meaningless

I have given more statements to police than I can ever recall. I have given evidence in court as well. Nothing has ever happened ever.

If you don't give the statement the most likely outcome is that nothing further will be done. However if you ever wonder why the Gardai don't convict more offenders remember your sterling lack of effort in assisting them in that endeavour.