French Air Traffic Controllers Strike 24-29/6/14

SamHealy

Would anyone on here know if this strike will have an impact on European Air travel in general or will it just be France?

Airlines are still selling seats in and out of France for strike days even though Air France have issued this:-

(Sorry you will have to copy and paste)

airfrance.fr/FR/en/local/information/news/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm

lord lucan

Eurocontrol have warned of extensive delays and cancellations. This was issued by them yesterday:

20/06/2014
French ATC strike 24/06-30/06


Report of the conference held on Friday 20th at 1400 UTC

2 French Unions have officially called for a six day strike commencing June 24 at 0400 UTC until June 30 at 0400 UTC. Refer to NOTAM A3514/14.

Main reasons for the strike are the new European performance plan RP2 and the level of en-route charges. Discussions are going with the Unions in accordance with French law.

The initial expectation is that situation will be difficult for 4 of the 5 ACCs. LFRR (West), LFBB (Southwest), LFMM (Southeast), LFEE (East).

Network regulations will be applied according to configuration and sectors availability.

In addition to the minimum service implemented in LFMN, LFBO and LFML, the airports will be closed for limited hours during the night shift. This information will be published by a NOTAM.

A reduction program by 50% in LFPG/PO/PB and LFLL, LFMN, LFML, LFBO, LFBD and LFRS will be implemented and discussed day by day in a conference held by French authorities. Decisions will be taken and all information about reductions plans will be published by a NOTAM.

In addition to the French strike, there is a risk of ATC Belgian strike for the 25th June. More details will follow on the Monday 23rd of June.

In terms of route and airspace availability surrounding France, NM is making preparations for the use of the Tango routes, optional routes in Canarias, and use of Algerian and Tunisian airspaces together with their associated procedures. These will be available in time for the start of the industrial action.

NM will host another Teleconference to discuss further implications of the strike as follows:

Monday, 23rd June at 1400 UTC

BrokenMan

Will this have an impact on flights into barcelona

IngazZagni

BrokenMan wrote: »

Will this have an impact on flights into barcelona

Yes, as flights to Barcelona from Ireland will need to overfly French airspace. It's more likely though that flights to Spain will not be cancelled but there is a high chance of delays.
It still seems unclear as to the level of disruption anticipated and we won't know until tomorrow afternoon probably.

PinOnTheRight

Cheeky way around DUB-BCN is to fly south via T9 avoiding French airspace and then along Northern Spain. Bit longer but it works.

T9 will get a hammering of the strike goes ahead

SamHealy

Will GOA/DUB on Wednesday be ok do you think? Or would cheek be necessary for that route too?

LXFlyer

The airlines will start announcing cancellations/changes tomorrow when the full impact of the strike is known, in other words how many flights they're being allowed operate - keep watching the airline websites.

smurfjed

Unfortunately nobody knows, it will all depends on how many people show for work, the shortest route from GOA - DUB would come through France.
Best check with the airline once the strike starts.

smurfjed

The French DGAC have prepared a blog in order to show the impact of the strike

http://dsnado.canalblog.com/

I'm finding it rather humorous that the google ad on this page says "Need to charter a Private Jet"........ that won't be much use to me if there is a strike

SamHealy

My difficulty with the "wait and see" strategy is that it causes unnecessary disruption.

Admitting that there is a problem and executing a "damage limitation" strategy, as Air France are doing, is far better for everyone, except the strikers I suppose.

airfrance.ie/IE/en/local/information/news/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm

"We are doing all we can to inform you and to minimize any inconvenience you may encounter. To be notified personally, we invite you to update your contact information (phone and / or e-mail) in your reservation file on our website.

Nevertheless, without waiting, we propose you to anticipate or postpone your departure to avoid the period from 24 to 29 June 2014 if you have the opportunity. "

When was that posted? Update on June 20, 2014, at 22h00 local time in Paris

By doing that they probably have managed to fill quite a lot of empty seats for the days leading up to and after the strike. They also are keeping customers on side.

Meanwhile other airlines are flying planes out of France with empty seats, days ahead of almost certain disruption.

I anticipated, planned an exit strategy and will be out of France tomorrow, all going well.

My interest in GOA-DUB is for someone else.

The French DGAC blog has been in place for a while, I first saw it on Friday I think. We are supposed to be at their mercy I was told.

Aer Lingus are still selling seats to and from France for the strike days.

LXFlyer

SamHealy wrote: »

My difficulty with the "wait and see" strategy is that it causes unnecessary disruption.

Admitting that there is a problem and executing a "damage limitation" strategy, as Air France are doing, is far better for everyone, except the strikers I suppose.

airfrance.ie/IE/en/local/information/news/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm

"We are doing all we can to inform you and to minimize any inconvenience you may encounter. To be notified personally, we invite you to update your contact information (phone and / or e-mail) in your reservation file on our website.

Nevertheless, without waiting, we propose you to anticipate or postpone your departure to avoid the period from 24 to 29 June 2014 if you have the opportunity. "

When was that posted? Update on June 20, 2014, at 22h00 local time in Paris

By doing that they probably have managed to fill quite a lot of empty seats for the days leading up to and after the strike. They also are keeping customers on side.

Meanwhile other airlines are flying planes out of France with empty seats, days ahead of almost certain disruption.

I anticipated, planned an exit strategy and will be out of France tomorrow, all going well.

My interest in GOA-DUB is for someone else.

The French DGAC blog has been in place for a while, I first saw it on Friday I think. We are supposed to be at their mercy I was told.

Aer Lingus are still selling seats to and from France for the strike days.

Until the French authorities advise each airline how many flights they will be allowed operate each day (which has not happened yet), then none of the airlines are in a position to confirm what flights will be affected.

They're going to have to decide on a day-by-day basis which flights are operating and which are not.

By no means ideal, but those are the cards that they've been dealt.

Cessna_Pilot

Disgraceful in this day and age that any ATC body can down tool for six bloody days and inconvenience literally tens of thousand of people.

SamHealy

lxflyer wrote: »

Until the French authorities advise each airline how many flights they will be allowed operate each day (which has not happened yet), then none of the airlines are in a position to confirm what flights will be affected.

They're going to have to decide on a day-by-day basis which flights are operating and which are not.

By no means ideal, but those are the cards that they've been dealt.

I understand that completely.

But airlines knew, on Friday, that there was a POTENTIAL problem.

Air France decided to alert passengers about the POTENTIAL problem and offered them CHOICE based on that knowledge. Based on this kind of thinking I would imagine:- Your flight MAY be delayed or cancelled because of a strike. Based on that knowledge would you prefer to travel earlier or later than planned, if it suits you, or would you rather take a chance?

Other airlines choose not to offer passengers that choice and have flown planes in and out of France yesterday and today and probably will again tomorrow, with empty seats.
Then tomorrow pm will notify passengers when it is too late to make contingency plans.

I am just wondering why because it seems like nonsense to me.

notharrypotter

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

Disgraceful in this day and age that any ATC body can down tool for six bloody days and inconvenience literally tens of thousand of people.

Cabin crew last time.

I'd love to see them have to reimburse all the thousands of innocent people caught up in this incredibly shameful exercise!

Obviously you believe that no-one in aviation or probably any industry should be allowed to stand up for their rights?

bkehoe

PinOnTheRight wrote: »

Cheeky way around DUB-BCN is to fly south via T9 avoiding French airspace and then along Northern Spain. Bit longer but it works.

T9 will get a hammering of the strike goes ahead

The issue with T9 is the fact it's oceanic airspace and subject to procedural separation (as well as extra crew training and aircraft equipment requirements which not all airlines may have) which means that the capacity of the airway is severely limited compared to domestic airspace with radar coverage. T9 and T213 will certainly help but only for some.

LXFlyer

One union withdraws strike action...

French air strike threat eased

June 23, 2014

AT LAST, there is some good news for travellers in France. The air traffic controllers’ strike, set to run for six days from tomorrow, will not cause as much chaos as feared after the larger of the two unions involved lifted its walkout notice.

Negotiations with the government over the weekend prompted the SNCTA to call off its planned six-day strike. Transport secretary Frédéric Cuvillier described talks as “constructive” and said that a roundtable discussion on the future of air traffic control in Europe will take place in early July.

Disruption is still expected however, with members of the second union that had threatened action, UNSA-ICNA, are still set to walk out.
- See more at: http://www.connexionfrance.com/france-airports-air-traffic-controllers-strike-threat-lifted-unions-rail-strike-sncf-15915-view-article.html#sthash.QdEG9ash.dpuf

Grandeeod

Dublin - Tenerife flights usually fly past the French coast/bay of biscay. Anyone know if these will be affected by this strike. I see Ryanair has cancelled similar flights fron London, but they fly directly over France.

CNTRLR

Grandeeod wrote: »

Dublin - Tenerife flights usually fly past the French coast/bay of biscay. Anyone know if these will be affected by this strike. I see Ryanair has cancelled similar flights fron London, but they fly directly over France.

it will be effected but to what extent you will not know beforehand, there will be a lot of flights flying through french airspace but no where near what should be, so there will be delays and cancellations.

have a look at flight radar, you will see the extent of the problem, take a good look through belgian airspace, there will be loads of flights through belgian airspace to avoid french airspace.

French strikes are nothing new really, they happen few times each year.

jamieh

Hi All,

I'm due to fly from Dublin to Athens this Saturday. Based on the usual route - it goes through French airspace (north east of the country).

Do you think the flight will be affected or could the route be adjusted (slightly eastern if that makes sense) to avoid French airspace?

http://www.flightnetwork.com/destinations/Dublin/Athens_Dublin.html

A319er

Effects so far are delays up to 30 mins but FR have cancelled nine dublin flights and one Ork, to Spain France and Portugal,
Eg Ei Nice is 20mins delay and FR Nice is cancelled , tough day for some

Kencollins

Looking at radar24 the T9 and T213 are getting a hammering alright.

It does seem that a bit of traffic is going the usual TULTA route into french airspace though.

Nice and busy for Shannon and London en-route today with all the extra TAM, TAP, and EZY aircraft avoiding Brest!

basill

I'm due to fly from Dublin to Athens this Saturday. Based on the usual route - it goes through French airspace (north east of the country).

I haven't flown across that part of Europe in a while but last time when I was caught up in a French ATC strike our flight plan from Dublin would route across the Southern UK, The Channel, Belgium and skirt just to the north of the French border to a point colloquially referred to as the "German Corner" which is a fixed distance to the west of Karlsruhe. We would then turn South for Italy or in your car SE for Athens and continue across Germany.

From what I remember of the Athens route it was generally as described above most days anyway so you probably won't be affected as much. If heading to Italy then it would add a fair old whack of time on and burn a lot more juice.

Worth bearing in mind that aircraft on earlier rotations can be delayed by the strike so even if your intended routing is clear of France you still might be caught up.

wolfie36

Meant to fly out tomorrow on early flight to Barcelona with ryanscare.... think the one this morning got cancelled. Hope and pray the one tomorrow goes, but not very likely... we got caught last year in the ATC strike as well, although then we were flying into France, causing us to miss 4 days of our holiday. Very much a first world problem, I know... this is prob gonna cost me a few days of this holiday and a couple of hundred to boot, between rearranging car, campsite etc

Even with all this I still think the French are right to strike.... we do to much belly aching in this country.... when the french are peed off bout something everyone knows and they don't care who they inconvenience. A bit of that in this country wouldn't go a miss...

smurfjed

Off to LeBourget tomorrow morning, should be fun as they closed today without any notice

CNTRLR

basill wrote: »

The Channel, Belgium and skirt just to the north of the French border to a point colloquially referred to as the "German Corner" which is a fixed distance to the west of Karlsruhe.

13nm radial 270 of KRH, or as it is now known EDISA.... just saying..

CNTRLR

Mr.S wrote: »

Out of interest - why did Ryanair cancel its Nice flight, but Aer Lingus operated both of theirs? Roughly the same time, same terminal..

would imagine it that they didn't want to risk the aircraft getting stuck there with out of hours crew etc. it costs money to cancel a flight but it costs a lot more to put crew and passengers up for the night as they can't fly home or bring in a spare plane.

IngazZagni

CNTRLR wrote: »

would imagine it that they didn't want to risk the aircraft getting stuck there with out of hours crew etc. it costs money to cancel a flight but it costs a lot more to put crew and passengers up for the night as they can't fly home or bring in a spare plane.

This is true. It is also possible for example that the aircraft scheduled to do the Nice rotation may have been stuck down route somewhere on a previous flight due to the strike. As it is summer, there wouldn't be a huge amount of slack in the schedules and they certainly wouldn't be able to plug all the holes for the day.

smurfjed

Out of interest - why did Ryanair cancel its Nice flight, but Aer Lingus operated both of theirs? Roughly the same time, same terminal..

Probably because Ryanair operate more flights than EI, the notams called for airlines with more that 3 or 5 rotations to cancel 20-40% of their flights. Although this was area and airport specific, its quite possible that certain Irish flights got caught by it.
I get to go prepare an aircraft for a 07:45 departure, but the destination airport can only tell us at 07:00 if they will be open :) Should be a fun day

pc7

Just booking flights today for August to Tenerife, I've been looking online to see if further action is planned later in the summer. Does anyone know if there is more planned? thanks.

Kencollins

Tenerife flights should be safe enough.

They usually operate on a route called the T16, which is well clear of French airspace. This used not always be the case, but I think most of the Ryanair aircraft have HF and MNPS certification now allowing them to use the route.

The worst you could expect is delays due to congestion on this route, but hopefully no cancellations!

hidinginthebush

I heard this morning that the Belgian controllers have joined the strike. What is the likelihood that other nations would join?

I'm due to fly to Berlin and back over the weekend. Wondering if there's a chance one or both flights will be cancelled.

NeonCookies

Flying Malaga to Dublin tomorrow Luckily with Aer Lingus as Ryanair have cancelled a few flights on this route. Looking at Malaga airport departures, there's excessive delays for most flights this afternoon. I'm gonna have a selection of movies ready to watch and my kindle at the ready, and just try not to stress. Nothing I can do!

Does anyone know, if I wake up tomorrow morning and my flight has been delayed e.g. from 12.10 to 15.00 or something. Do I still need to arrive at the airport to check in bags at the normal time for my original flight e.g. 10am. or can I wait until later?

CNTRLR

hidinginthebush wrote: »

I heard this morning that the Belgian controllers have joined the strike. What is the likelihood that other nations would join?

the belgians only control lower airspace, its a separate strike and only involves belgian airports, if you are only flying above belgium you work with eurocontrol maastricht who are still working, albeit it very hard this week

happygoose

Anyone any more details on the Belgian strike - due to fly there Friday:rolleyes:

paulkg246

hey,
is the strike really going to last 6 days? or should it be sorted? im flying from cork to standsted on saturday night and flying to lanzarote sunday morning from standsted and im not looking forward to flying over to find out its cancelled? i tried calling ryanair today to see if they would tranfer me to fly from cork on sunday but they are telling me to keep checking their website or ring back on saturday?

IceWolf7

Hi guys,
Am flying to Valencia on Sunday morning, what are my chances of the flight being cancelled?
Any thoughts at all would be appreciated!

CNTRLR

IceWolf7 wrote: »

Hi guys,
Am flying to Valencia on Sunday morning, what are my chances of the flight being cancelled?
Any thoughts at all would be appreciated!

no one here can give a definite answer, however by sunday the strike will be over, but then again there a literally a million different reasons that they can use to cancel a flight, the french striking is just one of those million...

CNTRLR

NeonCookies wrote: »

Flying Malaga to Dublin tomorrow Luckily with Aer Lingus as Ryanair have cancelled a few flights on this route. Looking at Malaga airport departures, there's excessive delays for most flights this afternoon. I'm gonna have a selection of movies ready to watch and my kindle at the ready, and just try not to stress. Nothing I can do!

Does anyone know, if I wake up tomorrow morning and my flight has been delayed e.g. from 12.10 to 15.00 or something. Do I still need to arrive at the airport to check in bags at the normal time for my original flight e.g. 10am. or can I wait until later?

yes go to the airport well before the flight as you will not be allowed to check baggage in if the was already due to have left,

Darwin

IceWolf7 wrote: »

Hi guys,
Am flying to Valencia on Sunday morning, what are my chances of the flight being cancelled?
Any thoughts at all would be appreciated!

Too early to say to be honest, your best bet is to monitor flights there each day and see what kind of delays or cancellations are happening. Taking into account yesterday and today, the low cost carriers (Ryanair, Easyjet) have had significantly more cancellations than the likes of Aer Lingus or British Airways. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, this is because they have many more daily rotations over the affected airspace. Heading to Nice, we were routed over Brussels, Frankfurt and Zurich but only arrived 20 minutes late in the end.

Edit: The strike is for 6 days and includes Sunday I believe.

Dingle_berry

Looking at flightradar there are still a lot of aircraft over France at various altitudes. Is it just the number of flights that is reduced? How & who decide which flights go?

SamHealy

RTE have reported that the strike is over.

veetwin

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0625/626319-french-air-traffic-controller-strike/

Thankfully it appears to be over for now. Whatever about the merits of the strike it really inconvenienced a massive number of people, many on their only holiday of the year with young kids etc.

smurfjed

he strike will end at 10h00 UTC on the 26th. The union asked ATCOs to go back on work. This will be done progressively. The situation on airports and in Reims, Paris and Bordeaux ACC will be normal.
Some capacity restrictions will be implemented by Brest ACC, and improvements up to normal capacity is expected during the morning.

In Marseille ACC, the recovery to normal situation will take more time.

pc7

Listening to newstalk and a ryanairs spokesman said they are to go on strike again in august. Does anyone know the dates?