All Blacks v England, 21 June

Kiwi_knock

Savea goes over for his second.

danthefan

This is going to get messy. Eastmond was all over the shop for that try.

umop.episdn

Hang on! Dan got his arse out of bed, we've 3 now!

umop.episdn

Cut right thru them again! Silly forward pass to deny Savea ,

danthefan

The same try has now been scored 3 times.

Kiwi_knock

Butchered by Ben Smith

bilston

This could be Englands version of our 60 point loss two years ago

umop.episdn

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Butchered by Ben Smith

I have a sneaking suspicion that it's not going to make a huge difference come the matchs end

bilston

Harsh card.

Wouldn't be like Garces

danthefan

It was high anyway, bit of a swinging arm, can see where the card came from.

ScissorPaperRock

Things aren't looking too good for England

danthefan

Well they've managed to go several minutes without being torn to shreds here so that's good.

Would be interesting if they managed to score a try next.

fitz

danthefan wrote: »

Well they've managed to go several minutes without being torn to shreds here so that's good.

Would be interesting if they managed to score a try next.

True, but shred-ripping still looks imminent.
I can see this being a proper thumping.

Kiwi_knock

Tackling optional for England today

danthefan

fitz wrote: »

True, but shred-ripping still looks imminent.
I can see this being a proper thumping.

And there we go.

LostArt

Delighted I got up to watch this

LuckyGent88

England in for a walloping here.

Kiwi_knock

22-6. If it keeps up like this, NZ should hit 50 points

umop.episdn

A match too far for England i'd say, they look spent

LuckyGent88

Ben smith is just phenomenal

umop.episdn

Nice burst by Smith, but still all too easy to walz over the line

Kiwi_knock

England are rubbish in defence out wide. 29-6

bilston

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

22-6. If it keeps up like this, NZ should hit 50 points

At least

bilston

What a kick from Ben Smith

umop.episdn

England have finally woken up!

LuckyGent88

Has Kieran read been taken off with concussion again or are they just happy with the minutes he has out in?

Former Coach

Ball skills of All Black (backs & forwards) a sight to behold!

Kiwi_knock

Savea gets his hatrick. Second half was not a great spectacle.

umop.episdn

Savea deserved his hat trick

Burcsd94

Jane, Smith and Savea have been excellent

LuckyGent88

Cracking stuff from Jane there to put savea over for his hat rick of tries.

Much better second half from England but once again failed to put the pressure into points.

Judgement Day

Great stuff - especially the first half and the boys chucked the ball about just like old times. Roll on the RWC.

Taco Corp

Judgement Day wrote: »

Great stuff - especially the first half and the boys chucked the ball about just like old times. Roll on the RWC.

it's not a home world cup for NZ so they've no chance

Ardillaun

How do you solve a problem like Savea? I don't recommend swallow diver's method of popping up in midfield when his opposite number got the ball. Next time, Chris, at least try and hinder him a little bit as he runs over you, like you managed near the end there.

English Lurker

Much as I dislike having to defend Ashton, it's not his fault that we went with an incredibly weird defensive line up in which we were so narrow that he was marking 13... but then still had a gap the size of Japan between 12 and 13. No one looks good in that situation. Besides, there are plenty of other things to have a pop at Ashton over.

OldRio

Highlights

Ardillaun

English Lurker wrote: »

Much as I dislike having to defend Ashton, it's not his fault that we went with an incredibly weird defensive line up in which we were so narrow that he was marking 13... but then still had a gap the size of Japan between 12 and 13. No one looks good in that situation. Besides, there are plenty of other things to have a pop at Ashton over.

After the first try, at least, some adjustment should have been made? Instead, England just kept on leaving the best player on the pitch in acres of space. And, in due course, he scored again. Ashton did eventually make a miserable attempt at actually tackling Savea at 77.23. I can think I can have a pop at him for that at least?

I was glad Ashton was playing but I think he did very poorly. In the last match I was thinking how he would have scored that try that Tuilagi and Brown managed to screw up. But I would never back him to stop Savea again, no matter what complex defensive system England employ.

Swiwi.

I'm kind of surprised by the outcome of this tour, England seemed to go backwards. I feel more comfortable about Twickenham in November now.

Lancaster has midfield issues to sort, like Ireland he needs to decide on a combo and stick with it. Tualagi has to be one of them, so it's a matter of whether 12 or 13 (13 for mine), and then who his partner is.

Still favour England for the 6N, but I must admit I feel a bit more confident of Ireland retaining their crown.

Tox56

Swiwi. wrote: »

I'm kind of surprised by the outcome of this tour, England seemed to go backwards. I feel more comfortable about Twickenham in November now.

Lancaster has midfield issues to sort, like Ireland he needs to decide on a combo and stick with it. Tualagi has to be one of them, so it's a matter of whether 12 or 13 (13 for mine), and then who his partner is.

Still favour England for the 6N, but I must admit I feel a bit more confident of Ireland retaining their crown.

This is Ireland's 'good' year, England and France at home. That will definitely play a part. Makes winning in a bad year even more impressive

Swiwi.

Tox56 wrote: »

This is Ireland's 'good' year, England and France at home. That will definitely play a part. Makes winning in a bad year even more impressive

I will be very intrigued to see how Ireland go v the Boks & Wallabies. Despite the incredible tradition that makes the 6N a top tournament, only Ireland and England are consistently at the races. Italy has gone majorly backward, can't even beat Japan, Scotland are Scotland, Wales are on the slide (but surprised everyone in the weekend) and France have an awful coach.

I feel Ireland really need to beat at least one of the Boks or Aussies (I suspect the Boks will be an easier beat), and a win over England at the Aviva would do the world of good for confidence heading into 2015.

molloyjh

Swiwi. wrote: »

I will be very intrigued to see how Ireland go v the Boks & Wallabies. Despite the incredible tradition that makes the 6N a top tournament, only Ireland and England are consistently at the races. Italy has gone majorly backward, can't even beat Japan, Scotland are Scotland, Wales are on the slide (but surprised everyone in the weekend) and France have an awful coach.

I feel Ireland really need to beat at least one of the Boks or Aussies (I suspect the Boks will be an easier beat), and a win over England at the Aviva would do the world of good for confidence heading into 2015.

I'd be more hopeful of beating the Boks as well. One win out of those two is the minimum we should be getting from the AIs.

We play England in round 3 of the 6Ns after a weeks rest. At that stage we'll have played Italy away and France at home so will hopefully have 2 from 2. The hype should be building nicely and so the atmosphere in the stadium should be good. It could be the game of the tournament, albeit incredibly early days for such a prediction.

England need to sort out 10, 12 and 13 so aren't far off Ireland in that respect. We both need to find a centre combo that works. But I feel they'd already developed the rest of their squad far more than we had by the end of the 6 Nations. Remember the injuries we had which had us missing not only SOB but almost all of our established wingers. Then we had really inexperienced lads like McGrath, Moore, Henderson, Ruddock and Murphy in the forwards. If we can get to a point where we have a reasonably injury free squad and these lads all have an extra year under their belts I think Ireland have greater room for improvement. I'm looking forward to it already.

English Lurker

Ardillaun wrote: »

After the first try, at least, some adjustment should have been made? Instead, England just kept on leaving the best player on the pitch in acres of space. And, in due course, he scored again. Ashton did eventually make a miserable attempt at actually tackling Savea at 77.23. I can think I can have a pop at him for that at least?

I was glad Ashton was playing but I think he did very poorly. In the last match I was thinking how he would have scored that try that Tuilagi and Brown managed to screw up. But I would never back him to stop Savea again, no matter what complex defensive system England employ.

Should have been made, but wasn't. I'm not entirely certain of the reasoning behind England's defensive madness in that game but I do feel reasonably sure that we kept using the same defensive system up until half-time with increasingly predictable results.

And yes, have a pop at him for getting bumped by Savea - although, in fairness, lots of people get bumped by him, and at least he actually tried to tackle! Several times that game he bought absolutely outrageous dummies and ended up tackling no one, outrageous to the point where it actually has to be questioned whether he wanted to make the tackle in the situation. Falling off of Aaron Smith was an equally contemptible piece of defending. I mean, all things considered, getting in Savea's way and then getting straight back into the line was actually his defensive highlight of the game. His highlight was being awful.

I am never pleased to see Ashton in an England shirt these days. The coaching team seem completely unaware and/or uncaring of how to make the most of his attacking talents, which mean he's mainly there to defend... which is like playing Shane Williams at tighthead prop. Except that Williams was a lot more talented than Ashton.

The selection of Ashton was but the most glaring of several selection choices of dubious sanity from Lancaster and his coaching team. As Swiwi points out, England went backwards over the tour, and I don't think that's just the All Blacks getting their cohesion together. His tinkering with the back line was just cretinous in hindsight. Hopefully he's got it out of his system but given that there are big question marks over who to play in the backs, I am not easy of mind.

While it's a bit early to be making predictions, another Six Nations second place seems the most likely ending point for England. Given a reasonable injury list, a good replacement for Plumtree and a good replacement for BOD, Ireland will be very well placed.

p.s. England's defensive system, as far as I can tell, tends to be a very narrow blitz. Either they catch a player behind the advantage line, or the opposition lines up deep and tries to pass around, at which point it becomes a drift. Ashton's role is either to come in and get the 13 to prevent it from going wide (which he failed at) or to call the drift, then prevent the winger from cutting inside and hopefully push him out (not exactly a success either). So yeah, if blitzing, the winger isn't necessarily Ashton's man, and they didn't seem to be calling the drift in time, mainly because the plan is completely ineffectual if the opposition can stroll right through the centre. Not sure it was his fault, but I'm guessing that half-time subbing is the end of Eastmond's England career.

LostArt

http://www.thescore.ie/analysis-new-zealand-line-out-tries-1538309-Jun2014/