Fire in apartment

suds1984

Hi , I have tenants in an apartment who had a fire with a chip pan last night. Everyone is ok which is the main thing. I'll making a claim on my insurance for restoring the kitchen and other damage. The tenant obviously can't stay in the apartment at the moment as the place is a mess and they have no cooking facilities. Am I liable to find them alternative accomodation for them while repairs are being carried out? Letting agent has a place they can move into for the month or so but is more expensive than my place. As the tenant caused the fire (left chip pan unattended!) are they liable for the accomodation or am I? I can claim for lost rent on my insurance claim. Sorry if confusing!

TheDriver

interesting post and looking forward to hearing the answer but on a side note, who the hell uses a chip pan anymore (I assume its a cooker top style as opposed to a deep fat fryer) and would you want a liability like that back in your apartment??

Paulw

In my own opinion, since they started the fire I don't see how you would be liable at all for paying for their accommodation.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Does it say in the lease that they can't have a chip pan? Our lease says it. They are a disaster waiting to happen. Don't know if your liable though.

Grandpa Hassan

If the LL is liable here then that is another thing that is very very wrong with the system. Doesn't answer your question I know....but I would find it incredulous if the tenant were not responsible for finding alternative accommodation

seamus

As far as I know the rules are that the landlord needs to provide temporary alternative accommodation, provided the tenants continue to pay rent to him. If the property is completely destroyed or the repairs are going to take a long time, the lease can be terminated (i.e. tenants pay no rent, and find their own accommodation) on the proviso that the tenants get first dibs on moving back in when the property is repaired.

Citing that from memory though so I may be wrong.

punisher5112

Hi op quick call to Threshold or citizens info you should get a definite answer.

Best of luck.

tenifan

I think you have a responsibility to house them.. but given they caused the accident, I reckon they'd be liable to compensate you for losses including the insurance excess and additional costs you incurred in housing them.

Get on to your insurance company to see what they cover. Read the terms of the lease your tenant signed (what are they responsible for?) and don't commit to anything before getting legal advice.

Be careful, as your tenant has tenant's rights. You need to provide them with accommodation, however, there's only a chance you'll be able to prove they were negligent by causing the fire (accidents happen, you might not be able to prove they left the chip pan on intentionally)

If the tenant had any decency they should cover their own accommodation costs if your insurance doesn't. If they're causing you more hassle than they're worth, it might be an idea to threaten them with legal action and then hopefully agree to part ways.

Gasherbraun

Was there a fire blanket or extinguisher provided in the property?

Apart from being sensible it is now part of minimum standards in rented accomodation and if there was no provision it may cause you problems firstly with insurance and secondly pinning liability on the tenants not matter how negligent they have been.

seamus

tenifan wrote: »

You need to provide them with accommodation, however, there's only a chance you'll be able to prove they were negligent by causing the fire (accidents happen, you might not be able to prove they left the chip pan on intentionally)

Fires and the like in properties are treated much less rigidly than other kinds of insurance. They're generally loaded to assume a "people are bloody morons" point of view, so an insurance company will almost always pay out on fire or flood damage unless there's a very strong deliberate factor to it.
Leaving a heater on, falling asleep with a cigarette in your hand, leaving a chip pan on, all negligent things, but insurance companies will pay up.

Ultimately also this is damage caused to the landlord's property by a 3rd party. So providing that he has the correct cover in place, his insurance company *must* cover his damages and then pursue the 3rd party for costs if they believe that's necessary. That is, the landlord cannot be held negligent for the actions of a 3rd party, so the insurance company have no grounds on which to refuse to cover the landlord's losses.

Potatoeman

punisher5112 wrote: »

Hi op quick call to Threshold or citizens info you should get a definite answer.

Best of luck.

I had a fire in a housemates room when I was renting. This is over ten years ago now. They initially said they had to house all of us then called back and said the law had changed and a fire void the contract.

Im still not sure. I was lucky to get another place quickly though.

_Kaiser_

Gasherbraun wrote: »

Was there a fire blanket or extinguisher provided in the property?

Apart from being sensible it is now part of minimum standards in rented accomodation and if there was no provision it may cause you problems firstly with insurance and secondly pinning liability on the tenants not matter how negligent they have been.

Interesting point that. I've never lived in a place where that was provided. Does make sense though as well as helping minimise any damage.

Margaret Foley 10

This is an awful situation you are in. The main thing is that everyone is fine. I'm not sure who is liable but I hope you get it sorted.

marmurr1916

suds1984 wrote: »

Hi , I have tenants in an apartment who had a fire with a chip pan last night. Everyone is ok which is the main thing. I'll making a claim on my insurance for restoring the kitchen and other damage. The tenant obviously can't stay in the apartment at the moment as the place is a mess and they have no cooking facilities. Am I liable to find them alternative accomodation for them while repairs are being carried out? Letting agent has a place they can move into for the month or so but is more expensive than my place. As the tenant caused the fire (left chip pan unattended!) are they liable for the accomodation or am I? I can claim for lost rent on my insurance claim. Sorry if confusing!

They can pay rent in the other place while you're getting your place fixed up.

If it's more expensive, that's their problem. They started the fire.

You won't lose rent as your insurance policy allows you to claim for lost rent while your place can't be occupied.

Get some fire blankets and a fire extinguisher when the place is fixed up, along with wired-in (not battery operated) smoke alarms and CO2 detectors.

Stepping Stone

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Get some fire blankets and a fire extinguisher when the place is fixed up, along with wired-in (not battery operated) smoke alarms and CO2 detectors.

On this note, make sure that they are working between tenants. My last landlord spent a fortune on getting a system wired in and some extremely clever tenant decided to disconnect it themselves (he said that he was never notified that there was an issue) and they did a through job of it. He never realised that it wasn't working, because he never thought to check it (fair enough I think).

We ended up with battery alarms all around the house because the whole system needed to be rewired and installed.

I lived in another apartment where an attempt at illegal satellite connection (think they were trying to steal someone else's supply) fried the aerial and all the wiring near it. They changed the sockets so everything looked perfect but it cost that landlord money and time. Different, but another well hidden piece of vandalism.

Gasherbraun

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Interesting point that. I've never lived in a place where that was provided. Does make sense though as well as helping minimise any damage.

I have just inspected a mixed residential rental portfolio of approx 150 units and found the required fire protection - blankets or extinguishers - in less than 10%. Provision of smoke detection was better but the need for blankets / extinguishers seems to be either not known or ignored.

Considering the cost, and potential risks of not having the protection when needed, it really is a false economy.

dubrov

Most (if not all) insurance policies will cover "Loss of Rent" or "Cost of alternative accommodation".

I suggest you take up the offer of the letting agent and submit a claim for the cost of the alternative accommodation.
If your tenant decides to move out instead, submit a claim for loss of rent.

Ring your insurance company to confirm first though

tinkerbell

I wouldn't think so - that's what contents insurance is for which would state X amount to provide alternative accommodation. They should have contents insurance - if they don't, that's their tough luck. What if they owned the place and didn't have contents insurance? Who would they expect then to pay for their alternative accommodation? Nobody. Unless it's on your policy or their policy then you don't have to pay for housing them.

Fkall

The tenants are liable for all costs.

tenifan

tinkerbell wrote: »

I wouldn't think so - that's what contents insurance is for which would state X amount to provide alternative accommodation.

No, it's not. Contents insurance is for contents. Clue's in the name.

tinkerbell

tenifan wrote: »

No, it's not. Contents insurance is for contents. Clue's in the name.

Actually you are incorrect. Some contents only policies cover the cost of alternative accommodation, subject to a max.

tenifan

tinkerbell wrote: »

Actually you are incorrect. Some contents only policies cover the cost of alternative accommodation, subject to a max.

None I've ever heard of, but not relevant to the op so I won't argue.

Little Miss Cutie

Hi OP

Just one point I want to raise.

We recently had a leak from the washing machine in the apt I rent, when it came to the insurance. The claim was actually made under the block insurance.

The assessor told me the block insurance covers kitchen, windows, floors and bathroom.

So it would be worth checking if your block insurance covers the costs.