Consumption rooms

justincasey

Having worked with Injecting drug users (IDUs) for the past number of years i really feel that Ireland is in need of consumption rooms. At this stage i feel it is a public health matter. We have needle exchanges all over Dublin promoting harm reduction but there is no were to inject. Some IDUs are causing an increasing amount of antisocial behaviour for local communities. There is also the health risks attached for the individual. People are injecting in lane ways all over Dublin city, injecting beside excrement is common, injecting in a hurry has its risks attached, also the individual runs the risk of contracting HIV or hepatitis if sharing.

A medically supervised consumption is the obvious next step IMO. What do others feel around this issue.

Amirani

Do you just let the users walk out onto the street afterwards? Surely there's ethical issues here around the safety of the users and the general public when you do that?

I agree in principal with any proposal to remove active drug use and the associated externalities like improper needle disposal from public areas.

zef

Take Dublin city centre. There are IDUs and crack users obviously under the influence , they are not hard to spot,
They score in the city centre and head off to the nearest public toilet or isolated spot In a park to take their substance of choice, to avoid the gardai.
A public toilet is not really suitable for IV drug use, for obvious reasons, both for the addict and the next person to use the toilet.
Many places in Dublin city centre have installed blue lights in their public restrooms' . This light makes it much harder for an IV drug user to 'find a vein'.
I would be for this idea, if someone wants to take their drug of choice in a hassle free environment, why not let them? We have plenty of public houses for drinkers.

Awkward Badger

zef wrote: »

if someone wants to take their drug of choice in a hassle free environment, why not let them? We have plenty of public houses for drinkers.

Drinking is legal though and pubs are there to sell alcohol not provide a safe place to get drunk.

Given possession of controlled substances is illegal there may be legal issues to face when considering knowingly allowing controlled substances on a property as well as supervising its use, particularly with medical supervision. These consumption rooms or the area would probably quickly become places of distribution and trade as well as consumption too.

I'm not so sure its the next step really. I think something like that can only really work when its done in a rehab type facility with methadone used and the end goal getting people off heroine, not making its use safe.

Torakx

People are not allowed to bring their alcohol with them out of the pub.
Thats a bit like the idea in the OP isn't it?
And it's also ok for them to wander around town while drunk.
It is also very bad for our health to be drinking alcohol to a stage where the liver can't handle it and it starts affecting brain function.

Personally I would much prefer stoned people walking around, over drunk people. It was a drunk person that broke my nose not that long ago in town and I have had several encounters over the years because of that legal substance. However I have also been in bad areas where hard drug addicts were in the area a lot and I never had any hassle from them.

If people are allowed to drink a substance that is known to increase some peoples violent tendencies, then I am not sure it is rational to ban all the others that don't.
Really it is the banning of anything that causes it to go underground and become a problem.
Once you lift the ban and set up "pubs" for whatever it is you want to control, you have a means to control it legally.
But there is a lot of money now in illegal drugs, so I am sure many people now would lose out if it became legal and I am not just meaning people on the streets selling it.
If more drugs became legal, the value would drop drastically and the people on the street selling would go out of business, as well as those in power they give hand ups to.

Awkward Badger

Torakx wrote: »

People are not allowed to bring their alcohol with them out of the pub.
Thats a bit like the idea in the OP isn't it?
And it's also ok for them to wander around town while drunk.
It is also very bad for our health to be drinking alcohol to a stage where the liver can't handle it and it starts affecting brain function.

Personally I would much prefer stoned people walking around, over drunk people. It was a drunk person that broke my nose not that long ago in town and I have had several encounters over the years because of that legal substance. However I have also been in bad areas where hard drug addicts were in the area a lot and I never had any hassle from them.

If people are allowed to drink a substance that is known to increase some peoples violent tendencies, then I am not sure it is rational to ban all the others that don't.
Really it is the banning of anything that causes it to go underground and become a problem.
Once you lift the ban and set up "pubs" for whatever it is you want to control, you have a means to control it legally.
But there is a lot of money now in illegal drugs, so I am sure many people now would lose out if it became legal and I am not just meaning people on the streets selling it.
If more drugs became legal, the value would drop drastically and the people on the street selling would go out of business, as well as those in power they give hand ups to.

That's an argument for legalisation though. The idea in the OP is to provide a safe place for people to use illegal substances under medical supervision so they are not at risk and to limit disruption to communities. You can't ignore the issues with illegalities regardless of how closely you think it matches the use of other substances which are legal. Perhaps in that case the next step is legalisation not medically supervised consumption rooms ?

Torakx

Yes, I think legalization is a much more sensible solution, but see no problem with consumption rooms as well as legalization.
I just think that society these days seems to try band aid all sorts of problems, instead of addressing the root issue.
Someday, maybe society will begin to accept that people will a lot of the time do things they want to do, despite any rules the larger group tries to enforce on them.
Unfortunately if there is more money to be made in illegal drugs, it might be a long time before it will be made into a legal business for the rest of the country to profit from.

Until it's legalized, I suppose consumption rooms are better than on the street or in some public toilets, however it sounds like a dangerous place considering it's an illegal activity still.
What about gardai stealing from the addicts?
But if they sold it there too, then this is nearly completely unlikely, as the users could purchase a safer, more monitored product and take it there in safety. And when they come out after, they can't be robbed of drugs that would be sold on again.

Awkward Badger

Torakx wrote: »

Until it's legalized, I suppose consumption rooms are better than on the street or in some public toilets, however it sounds like a dangerous place considering it's an illegal activity still.
What about gardai stealing from the addicts?
But if they sold it there too, then this is nearly completely unlikely, as the users could purchase a safer, more monitored product and take it there in safety. And when they come out after, they can't be robbed of drugs that would be sold on again.

That's pretty much my thinking which is why I suppose I fall down on the rehabilitation side of it. While it is illegal you have a lot of stuff to deal with because of the illegalities involved. It can't be bought or sold or be in anyone's possession legally.

Whereas if the intended goal was rehabilitation using methadone or whatever rather than enabling the use of heroin then you have a lot more opportunity and scope to try address addiction, safety and the effect on communities within the current framework.

I don't think giving up and just resorting to making the use of drugs safe for those who wish to take it regardless of the law is really a step that should be taken. It basically just capitulates to criminality. If such a thing needed to be done then the laws themselves need changing. So if someone feels that there is nothing else to be done but try make things safe for people who will use this stuff regardless then legalisation is the next step, not consumption rooms imo.

justincasey

justincasey wrote: »

Having worked with Injecting drug users (IDUs) for the past number of years i really feel that Ireland is in need of consumption rooms. At this stage i feel it is a public health matter. We have needle exchanges all over Dublin promoting harm reduction but there is no were to inject. Some IDUs are causing an increasing amount of antisocial behaviour for local communities. There is also the health risks attached for the individual. People are injecting in lane ways all over Dublin city, injecting beside excrement is common, injecting in a hurry has its risks attached, also the individual runs the risk of contracting HIV or hepatitis if sharing.

A medically supervised consumption is the obvious next step IMO. What do others feel around this issue.

This really had to happen about time !!