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An Tuiseal Ginideach

  • 19-06-2014 8:56pm
    #1
    abcork14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 ✭


    Dia daoibh. I have a question about the TG that has been bothering me for ages. Is it used after "tar éis" (in Munster Irish or an Caighdeán)? All help is much appreciated :)


Comments

  • #2
    implausible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    As 'tar éis' is a preposition, you don't use the tuiseal ginideach for the word following it. The TG is only used when two nouns come together.


  • #3
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    implausible wrote: »
    As 'tar éis' is a preposition, you don't use the tuiseal ginideach for the word following it. The TG is only used when two nouns come together.

    Always thought TG followed tar éis.


  • #4
    Snag Darach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭Snag Darach


    Tar éis consists of the preposition thar and the noun éis, so it puts the following noun in the genitive - tar éis an lae, tar éis a bháis, tar m’éis.
    There are a lot of these ‘compound’ prepositions, (preposition + noun), in Irish and they all take the genitive.
    Here are a few of them ar aghaidh; ar feadh; de bharr; faoi/fé choinne; in aice; i ndiaidh; le haghaidh; os cíon…
    Some of these are often shortened in spoken Irish for example in Munster you will often hear fean/fan instead of ar feadh, héis for tar éis, nós for ar nós but still followed by the genitive.


  • #5
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    implausible wrote: »
    As 'tar éis' is a preposition, you don't use the tuiseal ginideach for the word following it. The TG is only used when two nouns come together.

    As explained above, it's also used for compound prepositions. You also use it for the Ginideach Rannaíoch (quantities, basically) and after the Ainm Briathra. (ag _____/ where you would use "-ing" in English).


  • #6
    AnLonDubh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭AnLonDubh


    Tar éis traditionally takes the genitive as "éis" is a noun originally meaning "trace" or "track".

    However in the spoken Irish of Munster many speakers no longer place the following noun in the genitive.

    Note in general that in modern spoken Irish, native speakers rarely place a noun in the genitive if it is followed by an adjective:

    An cogadh
    Deireadh an chogaidh

    but:

    An cogadh mór
    Deireadh an chogadh m(h)ór (They may or may not follow the genitive lenition rules on adjectives)

    An bhean
    Ag pógadh na mná

    but:

    An bhean rua
    Ag pógadh an bhean rua.

    The Caighdeán of course prescribes use of the genitive in these cases, but spoken Irish has being dropping the genitive since the 1750s.


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