Is there a law covering how long my phone can be in for repair?

The_B_Man

Hi,

My phone has been in for repair almost 6 weeks. I was told it would be 2 weeks, or 3 weeks max.

Someone told me there that theres a law that if its in for repair for over a certain time limit, then I get a replacement phone.

Is this just friend-of-a-friend nonsense, or is there any truth to it?

Thanks.

lil_lisa

Six weeks? :eek: No wonder you're not answering my calls

Have you asked them about getting a loaner? Or ask them for your phone back and bring it somewhere else? That seems ridiculous.

Also, I don't think they're obliged to give a replacement

irishpancake

lil_lisa wrote: »

Six weeks? :eek: No wonder you're not answering my calls

Have you asked them about getting a loaner? Or ask them for your phone back and bring it somewhere else? That seems ridiculous.

Also, I don't think they're obliged to give a replacement

Depends, that bolded bit up there....

if the phone is being repaired under your EU Statutory Warranty, due to a malfunction or hardware fault not caused by you, within 2 years of purchase, then you may be within your rights to demand a replacement or a refund.


That's EU Law. If it's being repaired due to a fault or malfunction caused by you, at a cost to you, I'd say you have a case to demand a return or replacement.

At the very least, you should be offered a temporary replacement into which you could put your SIM card.

sentient_6

Is the repair going through your network?

I had the freezing issue on my s3 and left into a o2 store for a warranty repair. Came back after two weeks, claimed all was sorted, software update(:rolleyes: i knew a board change was the only thing that would fix it), phone started in a boot loop every time, had to factory reset from recovery to start, froze again before i even left the shop. Off it went again, came back after two weeks, same thing again when it came back, staff where adamant i had to allow the authorized repairers deal with it, i was saying a new phone was in order. So off it went again for the third time for two weeks. But before it was due back i rang customer service to ask what was going to happen if it came back again the same and the guy wasn't impressed one bit with the way it had been handled or what i had been told in the shop, said a new phone would be in order no questions asked should it come back not fixed.

I doubt the shop staff would have done that. It came back with the board changed the third time though so all was ok in the end. But i suppose the point is you have to talk to them and different people will give you different opinions. I remember reading some points about consumer law on citizens information at the time and found it ambiguous to say the least, no hard and fast rules with regards whats what.

irishpancake

sentient_6 wrote: »

Is the repair going through your network?

I had the freezing issue on my s3 and left into a o2 store for a warranty repair. Came back after two weeks, claimed all was sorted, software update(:rolleyes: i knew a board change was the only thing that would fix it), phone started in a boot loop every time, had to factory reset from recovery to start, froze again before i even left the shop. Off it went again, came back after two weeks, same thing again when it came back, staff where adamant i had to allow the authorized repairers deal with it, i was saying a new phone was in order. So off it went again for the third time for two weeks. But before it was due back i rang customer service to ask what was going to happen if it came back again the same and the guy wasn't impressed one bit with the way it had been handled or what i had been told in the shop, said a new phone would be in order no questions asked should it come back not fixed.

I doubt the shop staff would have done that. It came back with the board changed the third time though so all was ok in the end. But i suppose the point is you have to talk to them and different people will give you different opinions. I remember reading some points about consumer law on citizens information at the time and found it ambiguous to say the least, no hard and fast rules with regards whats what.

There are hard and fast rules, but people seem not to want to insist on their rights in Ireland, and then get walked on, and complain here.

The small claims court deals with cases such as these, if necessary.

The EU Directive was transposed into Irish Law years ago, and there is a two year Statutory Warranty against defective and malfunctioning devices, and those which develop faults not caused by you within two years of purchase.

I have posted numerous links and downloadable docs from the Irish Consumer Agency and the EU consumers association, and when confronted by someone knowledgeable, and confident in their case, shop managers usually stump up.

I wouldn't even speak to customer service staff or retail staff.

sentient_6

irishpancake wrote: »

There are hard and fast rules, but people seem not to want to insist on their rights in Ireland, and then get walked on, and complain here.

The small claims court deals with cases such as these, if necessary.

The EU Directive was transposed into Irish Law years ago, and there is a two year Statutory Warranty against defective and malfunctioning devices, and those which develop faults not caused by you within two years of purchase.

I have posted numerous links and downloadable docs from the Irish Consumer Agency and the EU consumers association, and when confronted by someone knowledgeable, and confident in their case, shop managers usually stump up.

I wouldn't even speak to customer service staff or retail staff.

The OP has excepted the offer for a repair so now he has to wait on that process to finish. I doubt it says anywhere in the hard and fast rules that after 3 weeks, 2 days, 1 minute and 3 seconds he has to get a replacement?! Instead of asking on boards he should be talking to the company directly.

irishpancake

sentient_6 wrote: »

The OP has excepted the offer for a repair so now he has to wait on that process to finish. I doubt it says anywhere in the hard and fast rules that after 3 weeks, 2 days, 1 minute and 3 seconds he has to get a replacement?! Instead of asking on boards he should be talking to the company directly.

I answered the OP, here:

irishpancake wrote: »

Depends, that bolded bit up there....

if the phone is being repaired under your EU Statutory Warranty, due to a malfunction or hardware fault not caused by you, within 2 years of purchase, then you may be within your rights to demand a replacement or a refund.


That's EU Law. If it's being repaired due to a fault or malfunction caused by you, at a cost to you, I'd say you have a case to demand a return or replacement.

At the very least, you should be offered a temporary replacement into which you could put your SIM card.

I was commenting on your post actually.

Why did you go for the Manufacturer Warranty option, which is only in addition to your rights under EU Consumer Law??

When you say you knew there is a malfunctioning "insane" chip in the device, which can easily be verified.

You had no contract of Sale with Samsung, yet you were relying on whatever "so-called" warranty they offer in respect of this well-known faulty chip.

Samsung supplied this device to whoever supplied it to you. Their contract was with your supplier, and yours was with whoever supplied to you.

You let your retailer off very easily, even though you have an enforcible contract with them, in Irish and EU Law.

Those are facts.

Yet you advise others to follow your course of action??

sentient_6

irishpancake wrote: »

Yet you advise others to follow your course of action??

I'm not advising others to do anything, simply telling what my experience was, which was clearly a terrible one not knowing what i was or was not 'entitled' to. Regardless of what you say the information that's available to the ordinary person is still very ambiguous, with lots of use of the word 'may'. A statement saying that someone 'may' be entitled to x, y, z doesn't mean they are. When a website calling itself consumerhelp.ie says 'In general, the seller can offer to repair the item first' that's all i had to go by. Ignorance is no defense though.

The_B_Man

I'm on the phone so can't do up a big reply, but the issue was not my fault. Its a known HTC camera hardware fault. The phone is less than a year old.
I'm going through the network via one of their shops in town. I assumed the process starts with that step either way.
I've spoken to the shop staff, shop manager, networks twitter account multiple times as well as live chat on networks website multiple times. Nobody could give me a status update.

BTW, I bought a moto g as backup so im coping grand, for now.

irishpancake

sentient_6 wrote: »

I'm not advising others to do anything, simply telling what my experience was, which was clearly a terrible one not knowing what i was or was not 'entitled' to. Regardless of what you say the information that's available to the ordinary person is still very ambiguous, with lots of use of the word 'may'. A statement saying that someone 'may' be entitled to x, y, z doesn't mean they are. When a website calling itself consumerhelp.ie says 'In general, the seller can offer to repair the item first' that's all i had to go by. Ignorance is no defense though.

OK, I accept that and apologise, you were just giving your experience.

But see this, from that website, which is the site of the Irish National Consumer Agency, contained within a PDF file I have referenced on many occasions here:

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/media/Yourrightswhenshopping1.pdf

Faulty or broken products

If a product turns out to be faulty and you are
not to blame for the fault, or if a particular fault
was not brought to your attention when you
bought the item, you have a number of options
under consumer law.

Goods can have major or minor faults, and you have different rights
depending on the type of fault:

If the fault is major, for example if you buy a
kettle and it stops working shortly after you
start using it, you have the option to reject
it and have your money returned. If a fault
occurs within the first 6 months after you buy
it, it is presumed that it was there when you
bought the item.

If the fault is minor, for example a button is
missing from a shirt you bought, you have
the option to firstly request a repair or
replacement.

If this is not possible or does
not happen, you can ask for a reduction
in the price you paid, or a refund by
rescinding your contract.

However, if the trader refuses to fix the problem with a repair,
replacement, refund or reduction in price, then
you have the right to reject the goods,
as outlined above.

and this:

Some things you should know:

— Your contract is with the retailer or supplier
who sold you the item so if there is a fault,
it is up to them to sort out the problem
– not the manufacturer. The retailer
should sort out the problem for you within
a reasonable time and without much
inconvenience to you.

— If you agree to a repair, it must be
permanent. If the same fault occurs
again, then you should be entitled to a
replacement or refund.

— If you opt for a replacement, it should be
the same as the item you bought, or of
similar quality and price. You should not
have to pay extra for a replacement and
should be given the difference in price if
the replacement costs less than the item
you originally bought.

— Repairs and replacements should be free
of charge to you. The seller is not allowed
to charge any additional costs for labour or
materials or postage.

These are all consumer rights under The Sale of Goods Act and the Consumer Protection Act( 2007)....

specifically, regarding Mobile Phones, see this:

http://www.business2000.ie/pdf/pdf_11/nca_11th_ed.pdf

Buying mobile phones

Mini case study 1 – mobile phones

Almost every consumer in Ireland has a mobile phone and these
devices have become an essential part of our everyday lives. The
National Consumer Agency helpline often receives calls about faulty
mobile phones. Consumers have reported poor service in retail
outlets, , misinformation, and lengthy delays in waiting for phones to be
repaired.


If you buy a mobile phone that turns out to be faulty, you have clear
consumer rights.

Firstly, the seller (not the manufacturer) must offer you a repair,
replacement, or a refund. The legislation does not state who chooses
the form of redress. However, if a repair is offered then it should be
permanent. If not, and if the same fault occurs again, then the buyer
is entitled to seek another form of redress.

Your contract is with the mobile operator i.e. the company that
provides the service on the mobile phone network. But if you buy a
mobile phone handset from a phone shop and it turns out to be faulty,
under consumer law it's up to the shop to sort out your problem. In
this situation your contract is with the shop - not the manufacturer or
the mobile phone network.

Before signing up for any mobile phone service contract, always read
the “small print” - the terms and conditions. These spell out your rights
and obligations; including charges you may have to pay when using
your account - or sometimes even when you are terminating it. If there
are any clauses you don't understand, ask the business to explain
them before signing up.

Now, I don't think this is as strong as it should be, or was intended to be, as per the EU Directive, but the implications and observations are clear enough IMO.

There is a clearer exposition here, from the European Commission, relating to the 2 year Statutory Guarantee and consumers rights regarding faulty goods purchased within the EU.

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/consumer_topics/buying_goods_services_en.htm

Can I say that I am just trying to be helpful here, and I think Irish Consumers are just not forceful or demanding enough with regard to legal rights they have.

Sorry for being tetchy with you earlier, I was watching England scoring a goal against Uruguay....

thankfully the outcome was as expected.

OK??

irishpancake

The_B_Man wrote: »

I'm on the phone so can't do up a big reply, but the issue was not my fault. Its a known HTC camera hardware fault. The phone is less than a year old.
I'm going through the network via one of their shops in town. I assumed the process starts with that step either way.
I've spoken to the shop staff, shop manager, networks twitter account multiple times as well as live chat on networks website multiple times. Nobody could give me a status update.

BTW, I bought a moto g as backup so im coping grand, for now.

That is disgraceful, but typical....

My advice, no more mister nice guy...

You have law on your side, there are linked downloads you can bring to this store, if you bought it there.

Outline to the manager that you are prepared to take them to court, small claims is just €20 or so, and be equipped and show your documentation.

Demand either a new device, if you wish to take a chance on this product again or your money back.

Your contract is with the store you bought this device from, no-one else, and just as importantly, they have a contract with you, which is enforceable under Law.

They have obligations under this contract, and you are just insisting that they carry out their obligations to you as the other party to the contract.

You gave them your money....you fulfilled your contract.

I would not leave an inch of them. Do not speak to anyone below the status of Store Manager, and if he/she refuses, write/contact directly to Head Office.

I wish you the best, you have been very patient.

The_B_Man

irishpancake wrote: »

I wish you the best, you have been very patient.

My patience is wearing thin to be honest.

I've been told today that the delay is because the phone had to be sent to the UK for the repair. I was told from day one that the phone would have to be sent to the UK. This is not some magical surprise that was thrust upon them. Both they, and I knew about this from the start.
What's frustrating is that I post stuff to family and receive stuff from the UK the whole time. It doesnt take 6 weeks. This repair is a simple part replacement so thats why I'm having trouble comprehending the delay.

Another issue is the fact that the store where I sent it in to be repaired, do not answer their phone. I've rang multiple times over the last few weeks and literally not once did they answer. I'll have to resort to voicemails, but I suspect they're not listened to.

I'll have to see if there's a central office number I can ring, that actually answers.

When I started this thread I was hoping for some concrete time frame like "the phone must be returned within 6 weeks or else a replacement is required" but it looks like I'll have to waste my weekend digging through the contract with them. Although I've switched to a monthly rolling contract so that probably wont go in my favour. TBH, I'll probably just fix any future phones myself. It would be quicker anyway!

timetogo

I'm assuming the repair is a warranty repair and that you brought it back to the shop you bought it from.

If it was me I'd go to the manager and ask when the phone is to be returned.

If he says next Wednesday (for example) I'd say "OK, see you Wednesday, if my phone isn't in, I want a replacement / refund".

If he says he doesn't know I'd tell him, that's fine, I can wait while you find out.

If he still doesn't know Id ask him for a replacement or refund. Wouldn't care which.

Then if he wouldn't do that I'd document everything up and get onto the small claims court (http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/781D7D5227918A618025715C004CAEF3?opendocument).


Theres no hard and fast rule for the length of a repair but 6 weeks is too long. I'd have guessed that 3 weeks would have been loads for postage both ways and repair. You should have confirmed this at the start but hindsight isn't much use.

irishpancake

timetogo wrote: »

I'm assuming the repair is a warranty repair and that you brought it back to the shop you bought it from.

If it was me I'd go to the manager and ask when the phone is to be returned.

If he says next Wednesday (for example) I'd say "OK, see you Wednesday, if my phone isn't in, I want a replacement / refund".

If he says he doesn't know I'd tell him, that's fine, I can wait while you find out.

If he still doesn't know Id ask him for a replacement or refund. Wouldn't care which.

Then if he wouldn't do that I'd document everything up and get onto the small claims court (http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/781D7D5227918A618025715C004CAEF3?opendocument).


Theres no hard and fast rule for the length of a repair but 6 weeks is too long. I'd have guessed that 3 weeks would have been loads for postage both ways and repair. You should have confirmed this at the start but hindsight isn't much use.

You are a man after my own heart.....

too much leeway given already, the OP has a legally enforcible contract of sale, and had abided by it, the store is in breech of contract.......

I'd go to law sooner rather than later if they don't come up with the fully repaired phone pronto, or a refund/replacement, OP's choice, as per the law already quoted.

I don't know why people are so tolerent of these sellers of high priced tech goods, itsca mystery to me.

If you bought a new pair of shoes and they fell apart after 3 months, you would bring them back and demand a refund, yet people seem wary of tackling these big retailers and manufacturers, mostly American and Asian, and believe all the stuff they say about voiding warranties, etc. never advise people about their Statutory Rights though, which trump any warranty from any other source.

Its baloney in the EU, there is so much more Consumer protection then in the US or Asian markets, even Apple had to change their warranty terms and conditions when brought to Court in Italy. For the whole EU market they had to change.

The_B_Man

Yes its warranty repair. I bought the phone via their web site but the shop in town is their main shop, or one of the main ones. I actually went to one in the suburbs and was told specifically to go into one of the ones in town.

So I did. Then after a few weeks I went in again and spoke to a member of staff who couldnt help me. He then got the manager to phone me. The manager told me that the phone would be in Friday with the next delivery, or if not, it'd be in with the Monday delivery. It was not. I didnt get any calls or texts from that store since.

However, I've been ringing and hounding them today. One of the staff has just told me that the phone was "fixed" in the UK and sent back to Dublin, where it was checked and found to be not repaired at all. So they sent it back to the UK where its gone back into the process of being repaired, and thats why its taking so long.

So basically they're gonna try and fix it again. I'm hoping something has changed since, because if they didn't know how to fix it the first time, they better magically know how to fix it the 2nd time!!