Rules Q - Knocking in a ball

Kevinmarkham

Question for the rules aficionados:
I'm playing in a team event. I hit a fairway shot to six inches from the cup, while one of my partners finds the bunker. He then plays his bunker shot and knocks my ball into the hole.

Does my ball have to be replaced or is it 'in the hole' and therefore dead?

Johnny_Fontane

Would have thought that the ball that was 6 inches from the hole is replaced. Where your opponent ball ends up is where they play their next shot from.

shane 007

I'm no rules expert but I think you have to replace your ball & your partner plays his from where his ends up.
No penalties for anybody.

shane 007

Looking at Rule 18-2, it looks like it could be a one shot penalty to you, due to it being over by your team member & the ball must be replaced.

Kace

shane 007 wrote: »

Looking at Rule 18-2, it looks like it could be a one shot penalty to you, due to it being over by your team member & the ball must be replaced.

It's not a penalty - rule 18-2 refers to a partner's equipment being the cause of the move. A ball in play is not equipment.

Think of a different scenario - you hit a ball from the tee onto the green on a par 3. Your betterball partner hits his tee shot and it hits your ball 200 yards away. Not a penalty of course - but you are entitled to replace your ball.

shane 007

Kace wrote: »

It's not a penalty - rule 18-2 refers to a partner's equipment being the cause of the move. A ball in play is not equipment.

Think of a different scenario - you hit a ball from the tee onto the green on a par 3. Your betterball partner hits his tee shot and it hits your ball 200 yards away. Not a penalty of course - but you are entitled to replace your ball.

It says "or equipment" which is part (ii). Part (i) is by the player, his partner or caddie.

denishurley

But Rule 18-5 specifically deals with a ball moved by another ball, there's no need to be wondering if the other player's ball is part of his equipment.

GreeBo

Hitting a ball with you ball (anyones ball) is only an issue if you both lie on the green when you struck your ball.
Otherwise, in all cases, the ball in motion is played from where it ends up, the stationary ball is replaced, by the owner of the ball.

shane 007

So is 18-2 referring to moving a ball with their physical person?

GreeBo

shane 007 wrote: »

So is 18-2 referring to moving a ball with their physical person?

or equipment, your ball ( in play) is not equipment. A ball dropping out of your pocket would be however.

shane 007

GreeBo wrote: »

or equipment, your ball ( in play) is not equipment. A ball dropping out of your pocket would be however.

My understanding of the rule was always as you describe, hence my original reply.
It was just when I started reading the actual rules, I began reading too much into them! A bit like being on "Who wants to be a Millionaire". You know the answer but doubts come into play!

dcrosskid

Hi, sorry for jumping in on this thread but just on the topic of rules or maybe golf ethics, I was playing in the Star Pub Golf competition last year.

We were going fairly well myself and the partner, as were the lads we were playing.On the 17th hole we were 1 point up but I came across my drive and pushed out into the trees right. Other partner lost his drive left Out of Bounds and hit a bad provisional. I chipped out to about 100 yards and left it around 12-15 ft past for a chance of a par. Similarly they had a par putt just a couple feet further away at a different angle. I was standing in line with my own ball and the hole and my opponent turned around to me and asked me to move to avoid getting a read for the line. After having a grand day and a good round I said no bother and moved away but thought it a bit over the top, or a bit out of line even?! He missed and I sunk mine basically ending the match as they would have to the something special on the last and us not to get a score at all.

So my question is, can you ask an opponent to move so as not to get a read? Is it in the rule book or should I have been standing somewhere else anyway?

mike12

dcrosskid wrote: »

Hi, sorry for jumping in on this thread but just on the topic of rules or maybe golf ethics, I was playing in the Star Pub Golf competition last year.

We were going fairly well myself and the partner, as were the lads we were playing.On the 17th hole we were 1 point up but I came across my drive and pushed out into the trees right. Other partner lost his drive left Out of Bounds and hit a bad provisional. I chipped out to about 100 yards and left it around 12-15 ft past for a chance of a par. Similarly they had a par putt just a couple feet further away at a different angle. I was standing in line with my own ball and the hole and my opponent turned around to me and asked me to move to avoid getting a read for the line. After having a grand day and a good round I said no bother and moved away but thought it a bit over the top, or a bit out of line even?! He missed and I sunk mine basically ending the match as they would have to the something special on the last and us not to get a score at all.

So my question is, can you ask an opponent to move so as not to get a read? Is it in the rule book or should I have been standing somewhere else anyway?

You are not allowed to stand on the line or thru line of an opponents putt or your partners. A player can ask you to move if you are catching their eye but if you were not on the line of the putt can't really see the point.

TrapperChamonix

mike12 wrote: »

You are not allowed to stand on the line or thru line of an opponents putt or your partners. A player can ask you to move if you are catching their eye but if you were not on the line of the putt can't really see the point.

2 points
1. Mike you are only partially right
2. OH MY GOD!!! I'M ALWAYS GETTING MY PARTNER TO STAND BEHIND ME TO SEE THE LINE. I'VE BEEN CHEATING FOR YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rule 14-2

Standing on Extension of Line of Play or Line of Putt

Q. My opponent or fellow-competitor always stands behind me while I am playing a stroke? Isn`t this a penalty?
A. Rule 14-2b only prohibits a player from allowing his partner or their caddies from standing in this position. While it may be a breach of Etiquette, there is no penalty under the Rules. A solution is to politely ask your opponent or fellow-competitor to move to one side or the other. (Rule 14-2b)

http://www.usga.org/rulesfaq/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=47&Rule=14

Goldenjohn

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

2 points
1. Mike you are only partially right
2. OH MY GOD!!! I'M ALWAYS GETTING MY PARTNER TO STAND BEHIND ME TO SEE THE LINE. I'VE BEEN CHEATING FOR YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rule 14-2

Standing on Extension of Line of Play or Line of Putt

Q. My opponent or fellow-competitor always stands behind me while I am playing a stroke? Isn`t this a penalty?
A. Rule 14-2b only prohibits a player from allowing his partner or their caddies from standing in this position. While it may be a breach of Etiquette, there is no penalty under the Rules. A solution is to politely ask your opponent or fellow-competitor to move to one side or the other. (Rule 14-2b)

http://www.usga.org/rulesfaq/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=47&Rule=14

Is this also the case in a scramble?? I've seen it happen so much and even done it myself I have to say..

PARlance

How do the ladies on the LPGA get around this?

Quite a lot of them get their caddie to make sure they are lined up correctly.
Maybe they move to one side during the stroke but it struck me that they remain behind the player.

GreeBo

PARlance wrote: »

How do the ladies on the LPGA get around this?

Quite a lot of them get their caddie to make sure they are lined up correctly.
Maybe they move to one side during the stroke but it struck me that they remain behind the player.

The problem is the player behind getting a line, doesn't matter about your caddy, he isn't going to hit a ball.

charlieIRL

PARlance wrote: »

How do the ladies on the LPGA get around this?

Quite a lot of them get their caddie to make sure they are lined up correctly.
Maybe they move to one side during the stroke but it struck me that they remain behind the player.

The caddies help them line up the putt but move away before the stroke is played.

PARlance

charlieIRL wrote: »

The caddies help them line up the putt but move away before the stroke is played.

I was actually thinking moreso about "the line of play" and took this to mean any shot. The ruling above says line of play or line of putt.

I was thinking about approach shots really as it's quite common for the ladies caddies to actually line them up for their approaches. Maybe they walk away before they hit but remembering back to the Solheim Cup... I thought the caddy remained behind them.

PARlance

Quick google has an article from Barry Rhodes on that very instance.
http://www.barryrhodes.com/2009/08/caddies-at-solheim-cup.html?m=1

The caddies were stepping away just before they hit their approaches.
Otherwise it would have been a penalty.

whizbang

My opponent or fellow-competitor always stands behind me while I am playing a stroke? Isn`t this a penalty?

PARlance

whizbang wrote: »

My opponent or fellow-competitor always stands behind me while I am playing a stroke? Isn`t this a penalty?

No, as per the ruling a few posts up from
Trapper. It is only a breach of etiquette if your opponent stands behind you.